FB: Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference

[GRIZ_BACKER]

Nice article in Around The Region about our friends in Hanover, IN related to the first year coach.  Great to see an HCAC team on the upswing.

[gofor7pitt]

GRIZ Ranked just #10 in the North Region??? 3 teams from the NCAC are ranked ahead of Franklin although only 1 will make playoffs. But I guess with the next two weeks playing out,Franklin will only move up.

[GRIZ_BACKER]

GRIZ Ranked just #10 in the North Region??? 3 teams from the NCAC are ranked ahead of Franklin although only 1 will make playoffs. But I guess with the next two weeks playing out,Franklin will only move up.

Franklin will probably get a 5/6 seed when the dust settles.  I would prefer a 6 as FC can beat a 3 on the road.  While a 4/5 might be more likely to advance, going to play Mt Union of a team of that caliber wouldnt be good.  Not a lot of though goes into the rankins.  its all record and SOS.  FC could juice its record and play two weeaker teams the first two weeks and be 10-0 every year or they can play top talent in D3 and 1-AA teams.  FC at 8-2 is very deceiving IMO

[SaintsFAN]

Guys --- a two loss Franklin team from the HCAC is just not going to be ranked highly on the Regional Rankings.  Period.  Doesn't matter who their losses were against.  What is holding Franklin back regionally more than those two losses is the fact the Heartland is not competitive outside of Franklin.  OK, so you played two GREAT teams in the non conference -- I give you that.   What is holding you back is the view that you are playing 8 teams in your conference that just aren't very good.   

The HCAC is 4-14 in playoff games since 1999.  Franklin has 3 of those wins.  Franklin has raised their level of play and made some fans regionally, but the HCAC thing is holding them back as far as the "respect factor". 

How have they done outside of the conference? 

Since 2005, the current teams in the HCAC are 76-117 when they step out of conference (and half of MSJ's 16 wins shouldn't count because they are against Wilmington).  I didn't count playoff games.  Each school's records OOC are as follows:

Mount St Joseph 16-5
Franklin 14-8
RHIT 14-8
Manchester 8-14
Defiance 6-16
Earlham 6-16
Bluffton 5-15
Anderson 5-17
Hanover 2-19

Frankly, I think Franklin would be better off in the NCAC or anywhere else, if you're looking for more respect in the regional polls with 2 OOC losses.

[gofor7pitt]

True, but those two teams were Mount Union, the #1 team in the nation,and Butler who is undefeated in the Pioneer League. The Pioneer league champ starting next season will get an auto bid to the NCAA D1 FCS playoffs. I would argue,Franklin had the hardest first two games in the country of D3 teams. Could have faired better though I guess! But,in reality,I feel Franklin is just as good as any team below Mount Union in the north region. If they can take care of business the next two Saturdays they will then get the chance to prove it.

[BUBeaverFan]

Guys --- a two loss Franklin team from the HCAC is just not going to be ranked highly on the Regional Rankings.  Period.  Doesn't matter who their losses were against.  What is holding Franklin back regionally more than those two losses is the fact the Heartland is not competitive outside of Franklin.  OK, so you played two GREAT teams in the non conference -- I give you that.   What is holding you back is the view that you are playing 8 teams in your conference that just aren't very good.   

The HCAC is 4-14 in playoff games since 1999.  Franklin has 3 of those wins.  Franklin has raised their level of play and made some fans regionally, but the HCAC thing is holding them back as far as the "respect factor". 

How have they done outside of the conference? 

Since 2005, the current teams in the HCAC are 76-117 when they step out of conference (and half of MSJ's 16 wins shouldn't count because they are against Wilmington).  I didn't count playoff games.  Each school's records OOC are as follows:

Mount St Joseph 16-5
Franklin 14-8
RHIT 14-8
Manchester 8-14
Defiance 6-16
Earlham 6-16
Bluffton 5-15
Anderson 5-17
Hanover 2-19

Frankly, I think Franklin would be better off in the NCAC or anywhere else, if you're looking for more respect in the regional polls with 2 OOC losses.

To my knowledge Franklin is not a member of Phi Beta Kappa, so it is unlikely that the NCAC (of which all of its members are PBK) would ever invite Franklin into their membership.

[cave2bens]

Frankly, I think Franklin would be better off in the NCAC or anywhere else, if you're looking for more respect in the regional polls with 2 OOC losses.

To my knowledge Franklin is not a member of Phi Beta Kappa, so it is unlikely that the NCAC (of which all of its members are PBK) would ever invite Franklin into their membership.

You're correct, BU, regarding the requisite academic creds coupled with recent addition of DePauw (respectful spelling until after Saturday  ) which gives the NCAC ten teams and a full round-robin schedule for next year.

[formerd3db]

True, but those two teams were Mount Union, the #1 team in the nation,and Butler who is undefeated in the Pioneer League. The Pioneer league champ starting next season will get an auto bid to the NCAA D1 FCS playoffs. I would argue,Franklin had the hardest first two games in the country of D3 teams. Could have faired better though I guess! But,in reality,I feel Franklin is just as good as any team below Mount Union in the north region. If they can take care of business the next two Saturdays they will then get the chance to prove it.

gofor7pitt:

Interesting.  Finally, the Pioneer League gets the opportunity to have an automatic bid to the Div I FCS playoffs.  I know some people will disagree with that, however, I think it is fine and about time.  They may not get far, yet, one never knows as every once in a while, one of the Pioneer League teams turns out to be very competitive in some years in the past (recall for example Harbaugh's San Diego team, Butler and Dayton and even Valpo a few years ago on year).  It will be interesting to see how that goes, yet, again, I'm glad to see it finally happen.

[wally_wabash]

I believe Franklin is better than #10 in the region, but that's not what these rankings are necessarily designed to figure out.  Does anybody believe CUC is the second best team in the region right this minute?  Including the people on the RAC that created the list?  Of course they don't. 

Franklin is where they are because they have a terrible SOS (.430, the same as Heidelberg) and zero quality wins.  I don't think there is a massive gulf between Franklin (#10) and Heidelberg (#6) in these rankings.  Heidelberg will be ahead of Franklin right now because their game against the common opponent wasn't quite as brutal as Franklin's was.  At the moment, Franklin has not beaten a team with winning record.  I think it's easy to look at the teams ahead of Franklin who have so-so schedules and zero quality wins (I'm looking from Elmhurst down) and convince yourself that all of those teams would post the same record Franklin has against that schedule. 

It is true that Franklin's non-league games were about as tough as you can get.  But you can't just waive those results off and pretend they didn't happen, or even worse, actively reward a team for losing.  It can't be good enough just to put Mount Union on the schedule.  You've either got to win that game or be competitive in the game to get any positive inertia from it in the rankings.  Really, right now, Franklin hasn't done anything that Otterbein hasn't done and Otterbein is nowhere near the playoff conversation. 

As it is, Franklin is setting themselves up as a team that you'd look at from a #6 or #7 spot in a region to go out on the road and ambush somebody. 

[SaintsFAN]

Guys --- a two loss Franklin team from the HCAC is just not going to be ranked highly on the Regional Rankings.  Period.  Doesn't matter who their losses were against.  What is holding Franklin back regionally more than those two losses is the fact the Heartland is not competitive outside of Franklin.  OK, so you played two GREAT teams in the non conference -- I give you that.   What is holding you back is the view that you are playing 8 teams in your conference that just aren't very good.   

The HCAC is 4-14 in playoff games since 1999.  Franklin has 3 of those wins.  Franklin has raised their level of play and made some fans regionally, but the HCAC thing is holding them back as far as the "respect factor". 

How have they done outside of the conference? 

Since 2005, the current teams in the HCAC are 76-117 when they step out of conference (and half of MSJ's 16 wins shouldn't count because they are against Wilmington).  I didn't count playoff games.  Each school's records OOC are as follows:

Mount St Joseph 16-5
Franklin 14-8
RHIT 14-8
Manchester 8-14
Defiance 6-16
Earlham 6-16
Bluffton 5-15
Anderson 5-17
Hanover 2-19

Frankly, I think Franklin would be better off in the NCAC or anywhere else, if you're looking for more respect in the regional polls with 2 OOC losses.

To my knowledge Franklin is not a member of Phi Beta Kappa, so it is unlikely that the NCAC (of which all of its members are PBK) would ever invite Franklin into their membership.

You're missing my point. There was a complaint that three NCAC teams were in front of Franklin. My post demonstrates why...as does Wally's breakdown of the rankings.

[GRIZ_BACKER]

I believe Franklin is better than #10 in the region, but that's not what these rankings are necessarily designed to figure out.  Does anybody believe CUC is the second best team in the region right this minute?  Including the people on the RAC that created the list?  Of course they don't. 

Franklin is where they are because they have a terrible SOS (.430, the same as Heidelberg) and zero quality wins.  I don't think there is a massive gulf between Franklin (#10) and Heidelberg (#6) in these rankings.  Heidelberg will be ahead of Franklin right now because their game against the common opponent wasn't quite as brutal as Franklin's was.  At the moment, Franklin has not beaten a team with winning record.  I think it's easy to look at the teams ahead of Franklin who have so-so schedules and zero quality wins (I'm looking from Elmhurst down) and convince yourself that all of those teams would post the same record Franklin has against that schedule. 

It is true that Franklin's non-league games were about as tough as you can get.  But you can't just waive those results off and pretend they didn't happen, or even worse, actively reward a team for losing.  It can't be good enough just to put Mount Union on the schedule.  You've either got to win that game or be competitive in the game to get any positive inertia from it in the rankings.  Really, right now, Franklin hasn't done anything that Otterbein hasn't done and Otterbein is nowhere near the playoff conversation. 

As it is, Franklin is setting themselves up as a team that you'd look at from a #6 or #7 spot in a region to go out on the road and ambush somebody.

If the road goes thru Crawfordsville I like FC's chances.

[wally_wabash]

I believe Franklin is better than #10 in the region, but that's not what these rankings are necessarily designed to figure out.  Does anybody believe CUC is the second best team in the region right this minute?  Including the people on the RAC that created the list?  Of course they don't. 

Franklin is where they are because they have a terrible SOS (.430, the same as Heidelberg) and zero quality wins.  I don't think there is a massive gulf between Franklin (#10) and Heidelberg (#6) in these rankings.  Heidelberg will be ahead of Franklin right now because their game against the common opponent wasn't quite as brutal as Franklin's was.  At the moment, Franklin has not beaten a team with winning record.  I think it's easy to look at the teams ahead of Franklin who have so-so schedules and zero quality wins (I'm looking from Elmhurst down) and convince yourself that all of those teams would post the same record Franklin has against that schedule. 

It is true that Franklin's non-league games were about as tough as you can get.  But you can't just waive those results off and pretend they didn't happen, or even worse, actively reward a team for losing.  It can't be good enough just to put Mount Union on the schedule.  You've either got to win that game or be competitive in the game to get any positive inertia from it in the rankings.  Really, right now, Franklin hasn't done anything that Otterbein hasn't done and Otterbein is nowhere near the playoff conversation. 

As it is, Franklin is setting themselves up as a team that you'd look at from a #6 or #7 spot in a region to go out on the road and ambush somebody.

If the road goes thru Crawfordsville I like FC's chances.

Why wouldn't you?  Franklin has a good team. 

I wasn't trying to bang on the Grizz there, just trying to explain the ranking a bit.  I wouldn't be too rankled about this if I were Franklin.  This is the kind of thing where you'll see a good team with a loss go out on the road and thump on pretenders who ran through weaker leagues undefeated.  Maybe you'll hit the CUC lottery. 

[GRIZ_BACKER]

I believe Franklin is better than #10 in the region, but that's not what these rankings are necessarily designed to figure out.  Does anybody believe CUC is the second best team in the region right this minute?  Including the people on the RAC that created the list?  Of course they don't. 

Franklin is where they are because they have a terrible SOS (.430, the same as Heidelberg) and zero quality wins.  I don't think there is a massive gulf between Franklin (#10) and Heidelberg (#6) in these rankings.  Heidelberg will be ahead of Franklin right now because their game against the common opponent wasn't quite as brutal as Franklin's was.  At the moment, Franklin has not beaten a team with winning record.  I think it's easy to look at the teams ahead of Franklin who have so-so schedules and zero quality wins (I'm looking from Elmhurst down) and convince yourself that all of those teams would post the same record Franklin has against that schedule. 

It is true that Franklin's non-league games were about as tough as you can get.  But you can't just waive those results off and pretend they didn't happen, or even worse, actively reward a team for losing.  It can't be good enough just to put Mount Union on the schedule.  You've either got to win that game or be competitive in the game to get any positive inertia from it in the rankings.  Really, right now, Franklin hasn't done anything that Otterbein hasn't done and Otterbein is nowhere near the playoff conversation. 

As it is, Franklin is setting themselves up as a team that you'd look at from a #6 or #7 spot in a region to go out on the road and ambush somebody.

If the road goes thru Crawfordsville I like FC's chances.

Why wouldn't you?  Franklin has a good team. 

I wasn't trying to bang on the Grizz there, just trying to explain the ranking a bit.  I wouldn't be too rankled about this if I were Franklin.  This is the kind of thing where you'll see a good team with a loss go out on the road and thump on pretenders who ran through weaker leagues undefeated.  Maybe you'll hit the CUC lottery.

No rankle here. HCAC is what it is.  The GRIZ need to get by a resurgent Hanover on 11/17 first or all this is just speculation. 

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

What I'd like to see is Franklin schedule some of the semi-elite teams of the region. It's nice to play a team like Mount Union to see a top team, but I think it would be much more beneficial to play teams like Wabash, North Central, Wittenberg, etc which are still solid programs but are games that would be competitive and Franklin might actually win.

[gofor7pitt]

I agree Wally........The way things are shaping up for Franklin, the situation could be favorable to getting to a 3rd round game. However if the Griz win their last 2 games, they will beat teams both with winning records. Don't move us up too much!  Ha ha.