FB: Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference

[HCAlum86]

Franklin is going to be extremely vulnerable to explosive plays of 25+ in the play action game if Wabash is able to get 4-5 YPC production out of their running game. If Franklin does not have to commit 7 or 8 to the box, they fair a much better chance of surviving.

[dc_has_been]

My goodness! Would it be fair to say that Wabash is going to win this game? 

I am super happy for you guys (Wabash faithful) to be proud of your program, but is there a need to spend this much time proving that you are going to beat an inferior program.  Since this game is already a done deal, maybe you should all head over to the WIAC page and start telling the UW-W fans how your stats are better than there's?

I hope that Franklin does bring their A game this Saturday and plays some tough nose football!

[BashDad]

For once, it would be fun if someone actually participated in these conversations and pushed back just a little bit instead of crossing your arms and trotting out the same, tired I guess there's no reason to play the game BS. That's so boring. I have to do both sides of the argument? Really? I don't want to. I dislike Franklin. I don't actually want to investigate why they might make this a game. You do it.

[GRIZ_BACKER]

For once, it would be fun if someone actually participated in these conversations and pushed back just a little bit instead of crossing your arms and trotting out the same, tired I guess there's no reason to play the game BS. That's so boring. I have to do both sides of the argument? Really? I don't want to. I dislike Franklin. I don't actually want to investigate why they might make this a game. You do it.

There is no point wasting time discussing anything with condenscending myopic posters such as yourself.  You have stated your case, your statistics, and your views several different ways.  We all get it.(Wabash is vastly superior in every phase of the game and Franklin has little chance and on paper will be fodder on the march to the next round).  I personally dont dislike Wabash.  Know several alums.  Great school, etc.  But I do find it hard to like disrespectful folks such as yourself.  I dont intend to waste time pouring over stats.

[BashDad]

Awesome. Enjoy the game.

[SaintsFAN]

Come on, GRIZ_BACKER !!

[ExTartanPlayer]

For once, it would be fun if someone actually participated in these conversations and pushed back just a little bit instead of crossing your arms and trotting out the same, tired I guess there's no reason to play the game BS. That's so boring. I have to do both sides of the argument? Really? I don't want to. I dislike Franklin. I don't actually want to investigate why they might make this a game. You do it.

I'll play, then.  Just to provide a contrarian viewpoint for discussion fodder.

The case for why Franklin might make this a game:

1. Franklin's seniors have played a lot of big games.  They have won a playoff game in each of the last three seasons.  They have played UWW, Mount Union, and UMHB over the last few years (UWW and Mount multiple times each).  They haven't beaten any of them, of course, but they've played them, and in a few cases, they've traded a few punches before going down.  They're not likely to be intimidated by the prospect of a tough opponent.  Furthermore, they've shown a tendency to play a little up or down to the competition...which means they can lose to Bluffton in the same year they almost beat Mount Union on the road and advance to the second round of the playoffs. 

Strangely, I would look at that last fact and kind of toss all those offense/defense stats BashDad compiled out the window.  Last year Franklin actually lost a game to Bluffton and then won a playoff game.  Something about these dudes. 

2. QB Grant Welp is playing, welp, some pretty good ball.  His passing stats are actually slightly better than Jonny West's from last season.  67% completions, 8+ YPA, 31-7 TD/INT ratio is nothing to sneeze at.  Even in the HCAC.  He also managed to put two touchdowns on the board in the first quarter against UWW, who then proceeded to allow two touchdowns total in their next five games.  Wabash has a fantastic defense.  But if the dude can dent UWW's defense, I'll say that he at least has a chance to dent the LG defense, too.  Note that I said "dent" - not necessarily light them up all day.

3. A bunch of different dudes catch passes and score touchdowns.  Not just one target you have to take away.

4. Finally, a comment that could get me slammed: I'll argue that Wabash has to prove they can win a big game more than Franklin does.  Wabash is the team that's lost their biggest game of the season the last two years.  Wabash is the team that cost themselves a playoff berth with two losses to .500 teams from the NCAC in 2012.  Wabash is the team that hasn't won a playoff game since the current seniors were freshmen.  The Grizz have been in the round of 16 three years running.  Whether that's a fluke of schedule or a weak conference or an act of God, that has happened.  Why is Franklin the team with something to prove in this game? 

I know the game is being played between the 2014 teams and that 2013/2012's results should, theoretically, have little to do with evaluation of a 2014 matchup.  I make that point all the time.  But we've seen a pattern a few years running now where Franklin has raised their level in the playoffs, regardless of the regular season result, while Wabash has not been in the dance.  Wabash may be the better side.  The paper stats certainly say so.  But Wabash still is the team with more to prove this weekend than Franklin, IMO.

[GRIZ_BACKER]

Come on, GRIZ_BACKER !!

I dont mind spirited discussion etc, but the tone of one certain poster gets old.

[wally_wabash]

For once, it would be fun if someone actually participated in these conversations and pushed back just a little bit instead of crossing your arms and trotting out the same, tired I guess there's no reason to play the game BS. That's so boring. I have to do both sides of the argument? Really? I don't want to. I dislike Franklin. I don't actually want to investigate why they might make this a game. You do it.

There is no point wasting time discussing anything with condenscending myopic posters such as yourself.  You have stated your case, your statistics, and your views several different ways.  We all get it.(Wabash is vastly superior in every phase of the game and Franklin has little chance and on paper will be fodder on the march to the next round).  I personally dont dislike Wabash.  Know several alums.  Great school, etc.  But I do find it hard to like disrespectful folks such as yourself.  I dont intend to waste time pouring over stats.

That's weak.  You guys have been begging for this game for years.  Now you've got it and you've got nothing to say?  I don't get it. 

[BashDad]

4. Finally, a comment that could get me slammed: I'll argue that Wabash has to prove they can win a big game more than Franklin does.  Wabash is the team that's lost their biggest game of the season the last two years. Wabash is the team that cost themselves a playoff berth with two losses to .500 teams from the NCAC in 2012.  Wabash is the team that hasn't won a playoff game since the current seniors were freshmen.  The Grizz have been in the round of 16 three years running.  Whether that's a fluke of schedule or a weak conference or an act of God, that has happened.  Why is Franklin the team with something to prove in this game? 

This. Couldn't agree more.

[BashDad]

And thank you, ExTP. You're one of the good guys. Respect.

[GRIZ_BACKER]

Come on, GRIZ_BACKER !!

I dont mind spirited discussion etc, but the tone of one certain poster gets old.

Well said Ex TP (let the record show one of those playoff wins was against a tough Thomas More outfit.  The GRIZ had to hold off a TM drive late to advance.).  A little research of the box scores from the last Wabash playoff year indicates only 4-5 players actually recorded any stats and most of those occured in the first game with IL college. While it may or may not be a factor, playoff experience is limited.

While Wittenberg and Wabash have consistently won a lot of games and have owned the NCAC, the rest of that conference is not that much better than the HCAC.  The conference rankings indicate that not a lot of distance between the two (having two perennial playoff contenders vs one is the real difference).  Witt traditionally schedules the same difficult pre-conference with the same results as Franklin. (scores compare as well).  This is the first year in a while that Wabash has stepped up pre-conference. and HS was not proven to be a world beater down the stretch.  Franklin has Butler and IWU next season so the trend continues to provide a meaasuring stick prior to HCAC

HCAC is starting to improve.  Rose Hulman has made strides as well as Bluffton.  Manchester has proven to be a tough out as well.  MSJ is on the rise too.  even Hanover made a QB change (I think and has amped up the offense)  Like a I said, Wabash is the favorite based on defensive consistency, stayed in the game with Witt, and is playing at home. (along with Franklin's propensity to give up some big plays.  Keep in mind the Leonard also calls off the dogs early and the defensive starters are young and the second string even younger)  The line would certainly favor Wabash by at least a score (maybe 2-3 points more).  But I don't agree with some of the unfounded over the top noise related to potential blowouts or UWW being "vulnerable"  Wabash does not have a high quality win since they beat Witt in 2012 and even then they didnt make the show. And other than Witt havent played any of the power teams since 2011.

[ExTartanPlayer]

4. Finally, a comment that could get me slammed: I'll argue that Wabash has to prove they can win a big game more than Franklin does.  Wabash is the team that's lost their biggest game of the season the last two years. Wabash is the team that cost themselves a playoff berth with two losses to .500 teams from the NCAC in 2012.  Wabash is the team that hasn't won a playoff game since the current seniors were freshmen.  The Grizz have been in the round of 16 three years running.  Whether that's a fluke of schedule or a weak conference or an act of God, that has happened.  Why is Franklin the team with something to prove in this game? 

This. Couldn't agree more.

It's a bit of an oddball thing to point out because it's not really a quantifiable characteristic like run defense or pass offense or whatever.  But this, IMO, is the biggest thing sticking out as why it's a toss-up.  Everything on paper from 2014 says Wabash is probably a better team, but we have a class of Franklin seniors that has won their first-round playoff game every season they've been in school (the list of other D3 teams in the 2014 playoffs who can say that: Mount Union, Wesley, UMHB, Linfield, Franklin.  Seriously, that's it).

This isn't necessarily a reason that Franklin will beat Wabash.  If anything, it suggests that the pendulum probably ought to swing the other way and it's about time Wabash actually wins the big game.  But it's the best angle I can come up with.

[BashDad]

More TONE!

1. The playoffs are not, as has been insinuated a couple times in the last several posts, some new season that plays by its own rules. That's outside-looking-in narrative spinning. Or lazy rah-rah from the inside. That's not the reality. Your team is your team. You play other teams. Period.

2. Franklin hasn't had a good win since 2008, so I just might stop playing THAT card. Thomas More maybe counts. Maybe. But playing good teams doesn't make yours one through osmosis. Not how it works. Your program has been bolstered by playing the UMUs of the world--you've gotten better players--and you and your Grizz brethren have clearly enjoyed some inflated sense of positioning on the national scene, but 90% of that is noise.

[BashDad]

3. I don't care what HSC's record is now. That was absolutely a big game. And Wabash won.