FB: Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference

[victorybell_57]

coaching strategies? anybody see rich rodriguez just mf'ing guys coming off the field. they don't really have time to worry about hurt feelings.

[formerd3db]

I admit, I cuss more than I should (and I was throwing out the F-bombs between the "you're better than thats"), but I make it a point to try to treat my guys like guys. Not kids. I try to treat them they they will if they go to college and play a sport because honestly, I think many good athletes come to college and can't take a coach screaming in their face when they screw up. Mental toughness is hard to find in today's youth.

Sayer:
I can understand your intent as stated above.  However, with all due respect, IMO, I think it not setting a very good example with use of inappropriate language at any level, let alone the h.s. ranks.  You are supposed to set an example and, of course, these young guys look up to you and they'll think it okay to use such, even if letting a word slip hear or there.  Now I'm sure you (or others) might argue that "it's the way it is in life", however, I would suggest that still as coaches we need to set the example and even the slightest slip is inappropriate.   I would submit that, even without the language issue, your coaching objective and goals can still be met and even more some.  Call me old fashioned, but that just MO.

coaching strategies? anybody see rich rodriguez just mf'ing guys coming off the field. they don't really have time to worry about hurt feelings.

vbell:

I know of someone who was an assistant to Rodriguez (someone who is a longtime DI assistant coach with experience at many big-time programs) and from what I hear (from my source), he did not think very highly of RR for a variety of reasons, one of which somewhat tangential related to what you are talking about.  Just some additional info to "throw into" the discussion.      

[M and L]

Sayer, thats not a bad idea. 

Schiender as Pat MacAtte's understudy as a D-Line coach.

Even Dryer as The Wide out coach.  Didn't see that one coming, is he the GA over there?

In high school i do agree coaches do need to watch there P's and Q's, not just for role model purposes, but there are parents and other members in the community in the stands who probably don't want to be hearing that.

College, little different, different atmosphere and its a business for those coaches.  The gusy that they are talking to are supposed to be more mature and adult like.  Besides no one is forcing these players to go to these schools and play for a guys that has a potty mouth.

But still there need s to be a limit some where, right Sayer 

[victorybell_57]

i get that most dI coaches don't waste time with high priced DI players not knowing what they are doing or selling out. yes it takes some coaches to get in their face to get that effort out of them, but RR does a great job of recruiting and telling them up-front "look, you're in my world now grandma." if it was my kid, i would say shut up and do your job. you are getting a free education out of it and many other doors opened to you that other places do not have. however, i wouldn't appreciate my kid being embarassed on national tv either. i don't think they will be as good next year with half of their coaching staff leaving anyhow, but we'll see. hard to replace some quality coaches they had.

[Adam Sayer]

I find that the way I coach is directly related to the way I was coached...DUH. Last year, Deer Park's AD asked me if I have ever heard them cuss at us and yell at us like I did to the kids one day (the AD was my D-Coordinator). I remember back to when we came back, down 30-10 against Indian Hill and won in OT 36-30. Every coach, including him was letting the spit fly and was holding nothing back during the halftime talk. I've had coaches yell at me and pull me around by my face mask/singlet depending on the season. The wrestling room was no different. Our coach let us say whatever and when he was angry at your effort, he didn't hold anything back.

Obviously college was similar because we were all adults. Locker room talk was who F'ed who and F-this and F-that,  Bill Venard chewing people's asses my freshmen and sophomore year, and the Hubie pre-game and halftime talks.

I know I cuss a lot, especially when I yell. Hence, I haven't yelled that much this year. I let out the bull****s and asses every now and then, but other than that, I've worked hard to keep the F-words to a minimum.

This weekend at the tournament, something had to be said for the effort the kids gave. There was none and this has been something that has been going on for a few weeks. The kids haven't been performing up to standard. We've tried sitting them down as a team and talking to them, we've talked to them as individuals, we've given them days off when we had a weekend free, and we were getting the same "Ho-Hum" effort. Nothing had changed. So in my opinion, the boys needed some fire. They needed a coach to take them into the shower and get within 2 inches of their face and yell how they are F'ing embarrassing themselves and their effort is horrible. They needed to be told to not come back to practice because they didn't F'ing do anything and their effort sucks. Etc. Etc. Etc.

I'm happy to say that it worked. The effort and attitude was better after that yell session and 4-5 of our kids placed. The effort yesterday at practice was better and the kids were going hard, damn near getting into fist fights. We actually had intensity at a practice.

[70_dc_alum]

Sayer not to worry i am a habitual F'Bomber too, but i can tell you to save that one for "special"occasions and it will get the point across a lot better.  the OC/Oline coach in my 4 years only used it about 2-3 times in 4 years and it sent a major league message when he used it.

[victorybell_57]

i agree with sayer. no matter what the means (well, you know what i mean) you have to always preach intensity and competition in practice. you get a lot farther with the athletes if their intensity level is high, and they learn how to play/wrestle full speed all the time. once it gets conditioned to them that way, they can achieve a whole lot more than otherwise. once they learn that anything less will not be accepted, you have them and they will run through brick walls for you.

i had a coach in high school who was as serious as a heart attack about going full speed all the time and he never swore. but you knew he would never, ever tolerate half hearted effort. it was like you just did the worst thing ever if you didn't go full speed like everybody expected you too. "you can be slower, weaker, less talented, but you can absolutely outwork the guy across from you no matter what else happens and win the battle." there are problems when you don't believe him, or in yourself, but he makes sure that you lose that battle and learn how to believe in him and yourself really quickly. he doesn't lay off until you do.

i know it sounds trite, but this man absolutely motivated guys to accomplish things i have never thought possible. i witnessed a .500 wrestler finish 2nd in the state with a chance to win the title match by wrestling suffocating matches and outconditioning his opponents. and this kid sucked at wrestling to be honest, but he went into a flurry for 6 minutes that nobody could even think about matching. when you see a national freestyle champ dry heaving at the END of wrestling season by being pushed so hard, you know what competition is all about. oh, and he beat that kid.

motivate, tolerate nothing short of your best, and demand excellence. anything less is cheating those kids and you are not a real man if you are scared to get that out of them. they'll respond, because they know you care about them. being good is only a small part, having pride in yourself to be your best in another.

[Adam Sayer]

I don't advocate the use of verbal torture, however, I'm not against using it. Like I said, Saturday was really the first time I yelled at the kids. I've gotten on them in the past, but Saturday was the first time I went "all out" on them. 3-4 years ago would have been different. But my situation 3-4 years ago was different. I was still playing college football and even at the DIII level, the intensity level is high. I've learned to control my anger and have began to find other ways to motivate kids. 70_DC is correct in the fact when you keep yelling, it loses it's luster. After a while kids just think "well here we go again, coach is gonna yell" and they don't think anything of it.

I had a meeting Monday with the principal and she was cool about everything but expressed the fact that "I can't coach like I was coached or the way she was coached" and all that jazz. I expressed that I didn't want to be the head coach next year. Being the head man, if the kids don't give a good effort, it comes back on me. I can't handle that. I can't handle being associated with underachievement. It drives me nuts and until I get older and more calm, I'd be better fit to be an assistant coach.

[tepee]

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070131/SPT030101/701310366/1062/SPT

[SaintsFAN]

Thats not a bad hire for MSJ. 

[victorybell_57]

ehhhhh, you can yell at kids all you want. i would cut back on the swearing due to fruity parents nowadays. don't want to get reprimanded because some soft skinned gq dad didn't like that you swore.

who knows that coach that was at anderson? is he really good?

[SaintsFAN]

rumor has it...he's the best PE teacher in Cincinnati east of I-71 and west of I-275.

the guy has won some games at Anderson....

[Adam Sayer]

We'll have to see what happens. I thought all along the coaching search would come down to a Cincinnati guy for recruiting purposes. You don't want an outside individual comming in, not knowing the area and giving all the Cincy talent to that school across the river. Finding a guy from a large school was gonna be big. Coaching at Anderson, you get connections to other large schools on the eastside (Eastside and MSJ in the same sentence....WOW). I think now they have a knowledgable guy who can recruit Moeller, Anderson, Turpin, McNick, Milford, Loveland, Amelia, etc. more effectively than in years past because those area coaches know of this guy. I know Rod lives out there, and don't get me wrong, Rod and Ron Woyan are highly respected individuals in Cincinnati HS football, but it's different with Suriano coaching against them year in and year out compared to the local Cincy college coach comming in to talk to the kids.

I know what kind of offense they ran at Anderson too. It rhymes with shed. MSJ may be sporting a new look next season, similar to the 2001 season with less confusion. I would like to know what happend to Sparhawk. Was he demoted, did he go somewhere else? I think Joey was starting to get the hang of things and in the next couple years was going to be a solid OC.

[FCC Approved Bland Name]

It's not my fault you were confused .  Maybe the geniuses in the backfield dragged you down.  Hard to run anything when the RB's decide they are going to"spread" the ball the the OT via the forward pass when the sweep was losing 10 yards because the slot was running a route instead of blocking primary force!

WOW

[tepee]

YANKEE ELWAY!!!!