FB: Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference

[Adam Sayer]

wow, Adam.  My "bold" letter-reading part of my computer is broken....

but did you just say it will be a bloodbath in the Bridge Bowl??   

Always trying to stir the pot.

Fight the team across the field, show them Ohio's here. Set the Earth reberverating with a mighty cheer. Ra, Ra, Ra. Hit them hard and see how they fall, never let that team get the ball. Hail, Hail the gang's all here so lets win that Ol' Conference now!

GO BUCKS....#1 AGAIN!

[altor]

FC has the edge in #5 because of the Wabash game

FC has an edge, but it is not out of reach.

FC's opponents are 12-6
DC's opponents are 11-7
MSJ's opponents are 9-9

[fc_alum_84]

I agree with Mr. Sayer and what happened to Franklin last year (i.e. missing the playoffs).  But according to this website the HCAC is 1-8 in the playoffs since 1999 which essentially says the second best team in the HCAC would not be competitive in the playofss, so reputation of the conference is not good.  In a normal year on 2-3 teams in the conference are really any good.  FC, MSJ and Defiance being those teams this year.

The odds the FC trips up at home against Defiance and loses on the road to RH and HC are not that good.  Defiance will most likely lose to MSJ IMO.

The HCAC needs to start playing tougher non conference opponents and winning regularly will be a start so that they get a better seed.  Playing a Mt Union right off the bat in the playoffs will almost always result in a loss.

[Adam Sayer]

The rules obviously try to distinguish between 2 teams. The website isn't going to prepare a scenario for 3 way ties, and 4 way ties, etc. I think they just believe we're smart enough to realize that if there is a 3-way tie, you have to skip down to scenario #5.

You do bring up an intresting point about losing to increase TMC's percentages. Think about the Moral debate of the coach and conference if something was ever to happen where a team was faced with the situation of lose the last game to go. Especially playing a rival. You always play to win, but in D3, the ultimate goal for all teams is to win the conference. Hmmm. ***I think the HCAC put that scenario in place more or less to encourage teams to play tougher competition.***

In my opinion, there is no "best" way to get the automatic team in a 3-way tie. I like a random number draw. You take all the human elements away and every team has an equal shot. It's a matter of luck.

Mr. Sayer...I feel important Adam is fine.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Personally I would think that a tie would be broken by rules #3 or #4 before it got down to either one of those two.

And that is part of the ridiculousness to which I was referring.  Rules #3 and #4 will never break a tie in this conference as long the overtime rules stay the same and they play a complete round-robin.  If the teams are still tied after Rule #2, it means the tied teams defeated and lost to the same schools.  That means that Rule #3 is worthless, because the wins for the schools they defeated will also be the same.  Same thing for Rule #4, they lost to the same schools, so the wins for those teams will be the same.  It is an absolutely ridiculous set of rules.

You're only thinking in terms of a 3-way, one-loss each, tie.  A 3-way tie with each team having two losses (which has occurred in the CCIW more than once) would make these rules relevant.

[fc_alum_84]

Franklin isn't likely to lose twice.  That being said, Rose Hulman could be a "trap" game.  FC has fought the wars last season and this season with teams like Wabash and MSJ.  Not likely they will lay down.  Rose is a respectable team and they will certainly be jacked up.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Adam, the rules ARE designed for 3-way ties.  Since tie games can no longer occur, rule one would ALWAYS be enough for a 2-way tie.

[SaintsFAN]

Adam,

I believe Ohio State will also catch the "upset epidemic" going around.  It would be good to see them go undefeated, but I have to believe they'll get biten once this year....probably Michigan, maybe Wisconsin.

[dc_has_been]

I don't think MSJ will be able to obtain an at large bid if Franklin was unable last year.  I do wonder though if Franklin would have if MSJ went 10-0?  Anyways it would be great to see two HCAC teams get in but as was mentioned earlier, our conf., hasn't earned the respect yet.
Anyways, DC will run the table & represent the HCAC!!!! Go Jackets

[dc_has_been]

Oh yeah, OSU plays a sorry nonconf. schedule & will lose to Michigan, finally, & somehow in my worst dreams they'll bring back Lyodd Carr for another year.

[altor]

You're only thinking in terms of a 3-way, one-loss each, tie.  A 3-way tie with each team having two losses (which has occurred in the CCIW more than once) would make these rules relevant.

Not at all.  There is no situation that Rules 3 & 4 would break that rules 1 & 2 would not.
In the case of a 3-way tie with 2 losses, there are two scenarios:
1.  One team beat both, and lost two other games.  They win based on Rule #1, head-to-head.
2.  The three teams split like they would in a 1-loss scenario, but they all lost 1 other game along the way as well.  In this scenario, move on to rule #2.  Go down the conference list, comparing wins and losses.  If you find a time when 1 team one and the others lost, congratulations, we have an AQ.  If not, it mean they all had the same results against the same teams.  This makes Rules #3 completely moot, because the teams that each of them beat will be the exact same teams, and thus will have the exact same records.  Similarly with Rule #4, since they all lost to the exact same teams, those teams will have the exact same records.

I can only think that these rules were first developed when ties were still a possible outcome, since I cannot find a time when the ICAC or HCAC didn't play a complete round robin.

[nittanybacker]

I saw a couple of things that caught my eye.

First,
Someone was talking about MSJ having to win big in the Bridge Bowl.  I think you have to wonder if the Mount will win at all.  That has always been a big game when you throw the records out the window and I believe that TMC might have a better team and coach.  It was better for TMC to get into the PAC instead of the HCAC.  Just by having W&J you play a team every year that is in the upper tier of D3 football.  That conference is a better conference then the HCAC and prepares you better for the playoffs.

Second,
No one is talking about OSU having to go to Penn State.  If the game was in Columbus I wouldn't say anything but since PSU is at home they have a chance to upset OSU.  They completely dismantled Wisconsin.  Wisconsin  was never in that game on Saturday.

Franklin will run the table and so will MSJ but their is not way they make the playoffs.  I would give two teams in the OAC at large berths before the second place team in the HCAC.

[Pat Coleman]

You're only thinking in terms of a 3-way, one-loss each, tie.  A 3-way tie with each team having two losses (which has occurred in the CCIW more than once) would make these rules relevant.

Not at all.  There is no situation that Rules 3 & 4 would break that rules 1 & 2 would not.
In the case of a 3-way tie with 2 losses, there are two scenarios:
1.  One team beat both, and lost two other games.  They win based on Rule #1, head-to-head.
2.  The three teams split like they would in a 1-loss scenario, but they all lost 1 other game along the way as well.  In this scenario, move on to rule #2.  Go down the conference list, comparing wins and losses.  If you find a time when 1 team one and the others lost, congratulations, we have an AQ.  If not, it mean they all had the same results against the same teams.  This makes Rules #3 completely moot, because the teams that each of them beat will be the exact same teams, and thus will have the exact same records.  Similarly with Rule #4, since they all lost to the exact same teams, those teams will have the exact same records.

I can only think that these rules were first developed when ties were still a possible outcome, since I cannot find a time when the ICAC or HCAC didn't play a complete round robin.

Or, altor, they are tiebreakers used for all of the conference's sports, which is a common occurrence.

[dc_has_been]

I think DC does have a shot at Franklin & MSJ, but as I mentioned before, DC needs to handle Hanover first.  I do think Franklin & MSJ are very good teams, but I'm not letting DC slide out of the picture yet.

[SaintsFAN]

nittanybacker,

re:  Penn St/Ohio St

I agree....but it all comes down to the QB for Penn St...Ohio St will stop the run. 

re:  TMC/Bridge Bowl

We'll see who the better coach and team is. . . I think MSJ will be VERY motivated.  Now I'm not picking them to win, but I think its going to be a "MUST SEE" for this area's college football.  The atmosphere should be electric.  I do agree the PAC is VERY tough. . . especially with Geneva in the conference now (who play the Saints saturday).  I definitely like the direction this team is headed in. . .they are very young, but talented.  They are going through their growing pains now. . .and I think they'll be clicking heading into their two "playoff games". . .that are W&J and MSJ.

Another team to think about is Case Western Reserve should they finish 10-0. . . much like Carnegie Mellon last year, they'll be in at 10-0.  I've seen one's prediction of Franklin playing Capital (2nd place in OAC). . . at least its not Mount Union.