FB: Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference

[formerd3db]

Sayer:
You are right about the $ thing.  However, I guess I'm a traditionalist (and perhaps not a "realist" I guess in today's world ) in that he's already getting good $ at Cincy and $ isn't everything IMO.  Honoring contracts has seemed to have gone by the wayside along time ago, and while I realize in these other levels of "business" college football, a school can fire a coach anytime, but the the buyout clauses and/or severence fees are in place for the coaches. 

SaintsFAN:
I agree with you %100 on your comments regarding Kelly and Cincy.  D'antonio complained about the crowds at Cincy and while obviously they are not like at MSU or U of M, ND, etc., nonetheless, when Cincy has success, Nippert is full and it is a great, neat old stadium to play in.  Besides, like you say, if they have success and continue to build the program, a good bowl game is always possible.  When Cincy was in its "infant" stage of trying to build a "big time" DI program, they had, at least at one time, rated the most difficult independent schedule of all the DI programs.  They got smashed year in and year out, but with the parity and changes in DI the past few years as many of you have discussed here on the boards and that we all know, programs like Cincy (also like South Florida, Central Florida, etc., which started as DIII programs) can have decent success at this level.  Heck, I hate to sound like a broken record, but I always also point out schools like Northwestern.  A fine year they've had and while they won't be the powerhouse that most programs like the "really big ones" are, they are very competitive and can have a chance at getting a nice bowl game in years they do well.  Of course, all that could be "blown away" (then again maybe not ), when DI goes to the playoff system like FCS, DII and DIII.

[70_dc_alum]

who knows what will happen to Kelly.  I hope he stays but a raise from 1M a year to 3M and a record 30k crowd to an average 107k crowd cna do a lot for someone with a big ego.  they beat a good team in the orange or sugar bowl and they will start next year ranked even though they lose a lot on Defense.  go undefeated in a BCS conference and you will get looked at for the big game.  it is a  heck of a lot easier to do that in the big east than the SEC.  he coaches another 20yrs and he will be shooting for that 50% of the time at Cincy and will be lucky to do it 2x in the SEC.

[formerd3db]

who knows what will happen to Kelly.  I hope he stays but a raise from 1M a year to 3M and a record 30k crowd to an average 107k crowd cna do a lot for someone with a big ego.  they beat a good team in the orange or sugar bowl and they will start next year ranked even though they lose a lot on Defense.  go undefeated in a BCS conference and you will get looked at for the big game.  it is a  heck of a lot easier to do that in the big east than the SEC.  he coaches another 20yrs and he will be shooting for that 50% of the time at Cincy and will be lucky to do it 2x in the SEC.

Good analysis dc-alum.  I agree.  I guess we'll just have to wait and see just how really big his ego is (which will obviously really confirm or refute those suppositions from the recent years after he left Grand Valley).  I hope he stays at Cincy - I think it would be a "win-win" situation for both the school and him.  Besides, I could easily live on just a measly 1 M.   Who needs 3?



***fixed***

[formerd3db]

Somehow, my reply got included in your previous quote - guess I hit the wrong button.

[cave2bens]

Somehow, my reply got included in your previous quote - guess I hit the wrong button.

Must be a function of "advanced maturity?"  My excuse is a malleted bird-what's yours, Sir?

BTW, I'll get that kid's specifics to you in the next week or so - I'll see him over T'giving.

[Adam Sayer]

In reference to this issue, the radio said this morning that if UC beats Syracuse, then Brian Kelly will be up to $294,000 in bonus money. If he is named the coach of the year, he will earn an extra $50,000 putting his final bonus at $344,000.

Tyrone Willingham may have been bad, but he was fired unfairly in order to bring in Charlie Weiss. Had Charlie Weiss not been available, Ty Willingham would have been at ND for another year or maybe longer had he had the success with Brady Quinn that Weiss had. I think Charlie Weiss's shortcomming is he can't develop players. He's spent so much of his coaching life in the NFL and didn't need to worry much about player development. They were already studs when they got to him. He's not equipt to mold a young QB into a star.

[Adam Sayer]

And how about this for fairness:

USC beats Ohio State by 33 points and OSU dropped from #5 to #14. Oklahoma beats Texas Tech by 44 and the game wasn't even THAT close, and Texas Tech drops from #2 to #7. BULLSH!T...I'm now convinced none of these voters really know what's going on. Seriously. Texas Tech deserved to drop 10 spots after that performance. For crying out loud, Oklahoma was a 1/2 yard from putting 70 on them.

Pat,
If UMHB beat North Central like Oklahoma beat Texas Tech...where would North Central drop? I'm just asking for an estimate from an expert? I'm guessing 15 or worse.

Dropping drastically early in the season should be no real surprise.  By late in the season there is a much more complete 'body of work' to call on, and one game (however lop-sided) doesn't, and shouldn't, count for as much.

As for your specific example to Pat, if MUC stomped NCC it would be in the national semi-final.  No way would NCC drop all the way to 15!   (Besides, I think the voters by now have a special 'Mt. Union clause' - getting stomped by them is not much of a disgrace!)

Tech had some impressive victories, but they still lost by 44 points...and damn-near gave up 70. And those impressive victories were at home against an Oklahoma State team who is decent but by no means great (I bet Oklahoma beats them by 20 at least) and Texas. The Texas win was impressive but at the same time, if Texas's DB's play defense instead of doing their best impersonation of powder-puff football on the sideline, Texas would still be #1.

How many teams in Division 1 history have finished in the top 10 despite losing a game by 40 or more points and giving up 65 or more points to the other team? I don't know for sure, but I'd be confident saying ZERO. I do agree that early in the year you are more likely to drop. A) there is more time to make up the difference and B) you don't have the body of work. But there is no reason for a team to only drop 5 spots after a performance like Tech gave on Saturday.


And my DIII example involved UMHB beating North Central...not MUC. Getting beat by MUC by only 50 points may indicate you're a top 5 team

[Mr. Ypsi]

Sorry, I misread you're d3 example.  IF it happened this year, it would have to be in the Stagg and NCC would have already beaten MUC, so I don't think there'd be much of a drop!

[KYGrizzly]

who knows what will happen to Kelly.  I hope he stays but a raise from 1M a year to 3M and a record 30k crowd to an average 107k crowd cna do a lot for someone with a big ego.  they beat a good team in the orange or sugar bowl and they will start next year ranked even though they lose a lot on Defense.  go undefeated in a BCS conference and you will get looked at for the big game.  it is a  heck of a lot easier to do that in the big east than the SEC.  he coaches another 20yrs and he will be shooting for that 50% of the time at Cincy and will be lucky to do it 2x in the SEC.

A perfect example of what you said was two years ago for the University of Louisville. I believe after beating West Virginia the were ranked as high as #3 in the BCS poll then lost to Rutgers the following week. If they would have beaten Rutgers they probably would have gotten a good shot at being in the big game since they would have finished their season undefeated. They still went down and beat Wake Forest in the Orange Bowl.

Boy how things have changed in two years after Petrino left. Finished 6 - 6 last year with no bowl bid and can not finish any better than 6 - 6 again this year. If they lose to Rutgers their last game of the season they will finished last in the Big East. They are already calling for Kragthorpes head and even Tom Jurich the AD is catching some flack too. These fickle U of L fans down here actually thought they could compete with the likes of Florida, Ohio State, Texas, etc. on a yearly basis and had a dynasty going on.

[formerd3db]

Somehow, my reply got included in your previous quote - guess I hit the wrong button.

Must be a function of "advanced maturity?"  My excuse is a malleted bird-what's yours, Sir?

BTW, I'll get that kid's specifics to you in the next week or so - I'll see him over T'giving.

cave2bens:

I don't have one of those, my friend   But you did get the right answer for me - and you did it with kindness! .  Anyway, I will await hearing from you after you've had the opportunity to talk with the young man.  I wish you and your family a blessed Thanksgiving holiday this week...

and I wish the same for all of you/my other friends/colleagues here on the HCAC board.   

[formerd3db]

KYGrizz:

So they've got those kind of people (fans) down there, too - just like at some of these other places?!!!  Not a surprise, I guess.

BTW, since you are down that way, what have you heard, if anything, about Western Kentucky's venture so far in "the really big time"?  I have a friend/colleague whose brother is an assistant coach down there, so I somewhat follow their program.  They seem to have a good young staff and while it is not expected they will ever be a "powerhouse" in this new level, I would think that perhaps they have a chance at growing, kind of like Louisville, South Florida, Central Florida perhaps??  On the other hand, I could be wrong.  Regardless, it will take some time and could be a long road, but not impossible.  I would guess they have a decent fan following i.e. base, obviously much better than an Eastern Michigan (or even a Western Michigan)??  Speaking of the latter, Western Michigan is having a very good year (like Central Michigan) and yet they only drew 12,000 for their home game two weeks ago vs. Toledo.  Our Hope College was playing right across the street vs. Kalamazoo College and the about 1,000 fans in attendance were as loud as the WMU (big MAC) crowd at times .

[Adam Sayer]

We had the same situation when we played KZoo. They were playing Virginia Tech though and it was a decent crowd if I remember correctly driving by. It was sweet cause Tech scored in bunches and everytime they lit a cannon. It was like we were playing in front of the crowd.

[formerd3db]

We had the same situation when we played KZoo. They were playing Virginia Tech though and it was a decent crowd if I remember correctly driving by. It was sweet cause Tech scored in bunches and everytime they lit a cannon. It was like we were playing in front of the crowd.

That's cool, Sayer.  While Kazoo usually gets smaller crowds (although I believe that will improve with the new head coach who is an alum/former player there in due time and a new commitment by the new president and administration), Kazoo did have over 4,000 people at its Homecoming game about 3 years ago when we (Hope) played there.  Again, that combined with Western Michigan's crowd just across the street, indeed have the effect you relate.  Of course, waaaaaaaaay back when, Kazoo used to play Western (they used to scrimmage them in the 60's and '70's as well) and even in the early 'teens right after the turn of the century, Western used to play at Kazoo's field (the old, but current Angell Field) before WMU's Waldo Stadium was built.  Anyway, thanks for the follow-up story.

[KYGrizzly]

KYGrizz:

So they've got those kind of people (fans) down there, too - just like at some of these other places?!!!  Not a surprise, I guess.

BTW, since you are down that way, what have you heard, if anything, about Western Kentucky's venture so far in "the really big time"?  I have a friend/colleague whose brother is an assistant coach down there, so I somewhat follow their program.  They seem to have a good young staff and while it is not expected they will ever be a "powerhouse" in this new level, I would think that perhaps they have a chance at growing, kind of like Louisville, South Florida, Central Florida perhaps??  On the other hand, I could be wrong.  Regardless, it will take some time and could be a long road, but not impossible.  I would guess they have a decent fan following i.e. base, obviously much better than an Eastern Michigan (or even a Western Michigan)??  Speaking of the latter, Western Michigan is having a very good year (like Central Michigan) and yet they only drew 12,000 for their home game two weeks ago vs. Toledo.  Our Hope College was playing right across the street vs. Kalamazoo College and the about 1,000 fans in attendance were as loud as the WMU (big MAC) crowd at times .

Since they have made the switch to D1 Independent they have struggled with the program. I counted about 45% of their players being from Kentucky which are the ones that U of L or U of K did not recruit.
Just my opinion, but I think they would have been better off staying where they were at.

[formerd3db]

KYGrizz:
Thanks for the follow-up.  I tend to agree with you in that while no one likes to see those schools not do well if they end up making the commitment to go to DI, in reality, like you say, they are better off staying at the FCS (formerly DIAA).  Better to be a "big fish in a little pond" as opposed to the opposite .  I hate to say this, but I dare say that even the MAC schools (yes, including Central Michigan, Western Michigan) are really "high-end" DIAA (FCS) schools - i.e. while they occasionally beat a Big Ten team as has been seen this year and recent, week in and week out they cannot compete with the really big schools (guess I could eat my words this year if we include Michigan in that scenario though  )