BB: SUNYAC

[John McGraw]

Last three years in the opening round

2006: Cortland vs. Brockport; Cortland started Chris Bilyk. Cortland's ace, Jimmy Dougher, pitches in the elimination game against Plattsburgh.

2005: Cortland vs. Brockport; Cortland started Jimmy Dougher. Cortland's top two pitchers, Mike Burnett and Matt Miller, pitch later in the tournament.

2004: Cortland vs. Plattsburgh; Cortland started Mike Hubbs. Matt Miller and Mike Burnett pitch later in the tournament. All three had seven wins.

[Paul Heering]

i stant corrected, Cortland seems to mix it up.

i think teams should do that.  take a chance.  i think that too many teams play the tournament day by day instead of looking at the tournament as a whole.  unless you are a borderline pool c candidate and this is a conference tourney, i don't see the difference between doing two and BBQ and losing in the final game.  you either win the tourney or you don't.

i have some interesting thoughts on this though. wait until you see some of the theories i have about the 7 team double elimination tournaments.

[Spence]

Heh you probably loved what Otterbein did last year then.

[scuba16]

i know what cortland has done in the past but there seems to be a little more parody this year as opposed to other years! in cortland's case dougher is clearly the #1 but behind him u have zgorzelski, jweid and tone so i guess you could afford to lose on friday and have some outstanding pitching to come back with but i would rather win on friday and lose 1st game saturday than vice versa, u eliminate a losers bracket game. i wonder if it depends on who throws for brockport game 1 to determine who cortland throws? cortland got a tough draw, oneonta always plays them tough. cortland will be tough to beat in this double elimination tournament though, they are built for double elim with their pitching depth!

[Paul Heering]

what did otterbien do last year?

[Spence]

Otterbein mixed up their pitchers all sorts of crazy.

They were the two seed. They threw a guy that had made only 3 starts (I think, none good) against #7 seed Elizabethtown and lost in 10 innings. The kid had thrown pretty well in a coupel of relief stints, but was their regular first baseman.

OK so first game the next day they throw their #2 against King's in an elimination game. 2nd game they throw their superb ace in the elimination game against the Wooster/Manchester loser, which wound up being top seeded Wooster. Remenowsky sticks the bats up their fannies and they're gone.

Then from there they went as you would expect -- #3, #4 and made it to the championship round against Marietta. The guy OTT threw in the first game of the tournament beat the National Pitcher of the Year Eisenberg. Then Marietta beat Otterbein in the championship game in 11 innings which OTT split up between their #1, #2 and their relief specialist.

It would be easy to say they screwed themselves by not going with their best guy in the first game, and maybe they did. Maybe Remo could have shut out ETown, Stevens could have beaten Marietta and they'd be one game away But they didn't lose to ETown because of bad pitching, didn't go to extras with Adrian because of bad pitching, and Wright threw very well in beating Marietta's Eisenberg later on in the tournament. But they did lose in the end to a team that was not the #1 seed (and hence had to play just as many games to get to the championship as they would have had they won the winner's bracket).

[scuba16]

ya but if OTT throws there guys in the conventional manner #1-4 and they win the first 2 games they are in the drivers seat. the other teams are scrambling and wasting arms in the loser bracket while the winners bracket is just sitting there resting guys. i'll take my rested #3 and #4 vs anybody coming out of the losers bracket. the losers bracket is an unforgiving place that eats up arms and wears teams out physically and mentally. not second guessing anybody, its easy to do but i just think playing it the straight way is the way to go, throw your best the 1st day. i've seen it work both ways, you look like a genius when u throw your #4 and he wins the 1st game and a retard when he throws like crap and loses with you #1 just siting there.
here's another way to look at it, just say that OTT lost the 1st game with the kid who only had 3 starts and the next day instead of winning their #2 loses. Ott season is done and their #1 never threw a pitch. how bad would that be. u have to throw your best guy within the first 2 games, especially if you lose the first. if not, you are leaving yourself open for some serious criticism, what can you say as a head coach if your seasons is over and your #1 never took the hill?

[BoomerIL]

Without any doubt, you have to put your #1 on the mound in game one.  He has to be supported with the "best" defensive line-up next.  Hopefully the hitting will support your #1's efforts.  You play each game has if it were possibly your last game, with no-tomorrow in sight.

As we all know, the variables of this game come from players inconsistencies to perform.  Your pitcher could walk and/or give-up hits, your defense falls apart, and your hitters fail to the others teams #1.

It's just my opinion, but you have to play each game like it is potentionally your last.  Put your "best" out there first!!

[Bob Maxwell]

Some interesting speculations on who will pitch for each team.  One of the more interesting is the possibility of Cortland deciding who they will throw based on who Brockport throws...



I will bet money that each coach has known for at least a week what pitching rotation they want to follow in the tournament.  They want to put their players in the best possibly matchups possible... but you can't think one game ahead because if you don't win this game you may be done.

I.e. #4 seed has beaten the #1 seed each of the last two years...  Yes, the # 1 came back to win the tournament both times, but this year is a different year.  And each team has at least two pitchers who can shut the other teams down.  So you never know...

Also, as boomer says, there are other factors that can play into what happens in a game... defense and hitting.  You can pitch a great game and lose a low scoring game if you don't field and hit.  And you can struggle on the mound and win a game 12-10.

The coaches know what they want to do... and are each positioning their teams accordingly.  Pitching, defense and hitting.

It will be fun to watch it unfold...

[Spence]

Just to clarify, I wasn't advocating what Otterbein did. I'm just saying if you're saying you have some unconventional ideas, you might be interested in it.

There are exceptions to everything. Even though a coach may always, always, always run his ace out there for the first game, there may be a case where it makes sense to do something else. I've been there when that happened and believe me, it was a shock. But the reasoning was excellent.

[John McGraw]

RIT 8 Brockport 7 (10)

Casey Scott started and pitched three in a pre-determined rotation. He'll be available for the weekend, probably by Saturday. This means it'll be Maxwell or Dennstedt against the Cardinals on Friday; unless Scott is coming back on short rest.

[scuba16]

kinda clears up what brockport is thinking of doing pitching wise this friday.
now do they start #1 or #2, dennenstadt or maxwell the first game?

[John McGraw]

I'd guess Maxwell. Dennstedt was pounded for six runs on 10 hits against Plattsburgh earlier this year. Maxwell gave up only two runs on six hits.

[scuba16]

might see a Dougher vs Dennstedt winners bracket final on saturday.
good matchup

[BoomerIL]

John....

Not taking anything away from Maxwell, but just because Dennstedt got "punded" earlier doesn't necessarily mean that will happen again.  I'll give you an example, Dreimiller from RPI is their #2 and is rated fairly high.  Rochester pounded him, and they may do it again, but I think the odds of that happening again, at least the way they did beat him, is highly unlikely.  His pitching stats a pretty nice, and he could come out on top at the next meeting.  Its not easy being a manager, and then being second-guessed!!