BB: SUNYAC

[Bob Maxwell]

any information on any of the teams for 2008?

New players, unexpected losses, injuries...

[scuba16]

I know Cortland has gotten in some pretty good transfer pitchers. Don't know the specific names but I was told that the pitching staff they have this yr could be overall better than last yr even with Dougher gone. Remember, Mattes RHP and Bilyck(sp) LHP are back after an injury and a yr sat out! Jweid and Tone are lights out lefties. That gives Cortland 3 very tough lefties that all run it up there near 90 with good stuff. Mattes has touched 93-94 and is there closer. There Lineup will again be very good 1-9 mixed with some speed, power and contact guys.
Cortland will be tough to beat once again in '08!

[Bob Maxwell]

Thanks for the update... I wondered if the two who sat out last year would be back.  Sometimes they don't come back after injuries...  my son played with Tone over the summer and he was very good until he stopped because of some soreness in his arm.  But I think he stopped as a precaution and it isn't anything...

Yes, until someone can unseat them they are always the team to beat...  but you still have to win the games on the field.  That is why everyone keeps showing up...

As for the lefties, with many teams being right handed dominant in the conference, being a lefty isn't as important as just being good pitchers.  It will come down to matchups and who is on their game on a specific date.  Every team has one or two pitchers who can win on a given day.

I would like to know the names of the new guys just from curiosity... but information is always good.   thanks....

I see a four or five team fight for the second spot, with a couple teams giving Cortland a run for the top spot... then once you are in the conferencd tournament anything can happen.  But won't know for sure until we see rosters and start playing games.  And there are always a couple of surprise players and games each year...

[scuba16]

Hey Bob,
How is Tom McCormick doing at Brockport? He is a freshman SS from Utica and I coached him for about 4 yrs in American Legion with Adrean Post. Great kid and a very good SS. He should help brockports program immediately. Don't know if you have had a chance to meet him yet but he is a quality player and even better person!

[Bob Maxwell]

Scuba,

Yes, I know who he is... before practice started he and my son hit together in the cages several times and Rob said he is a very nice kid.

From what I saw at the Saturday practices I was able to make, I liked him...    He looks very good on defense... Offensively, he will be a different type of contributor then Tim Wilson was in his last couple of years, but he did look good with the bat too.

Obviously I'm not the one who makes the decisions but I think he will be a valuable addition and be one of the guys (perhaps the guy) who fills the hole left by Tim Wilson's graduation.

[scuba16]

He will struggle hitting just like 95% of all freshman until he gets some experience under him. very good defensively though and he is a tough kid. very good high school QB that ran the ball alot!

[BoomerIL]

scuba16....

Just curious, why do you say that 95% of the freshman struggle hitting?  That's an interesting comment.  Again, just curious.

[scuba16]

IMO, It is hard to make the adjustment from high school pitching to college pitching.
A couple of reasons come to mind for this:
1. alot of the kids that go to good D-3 schools are arrogant and think they should be at UNC or Miami U.  For the most part they do have not a clue how good some of the pitchers are on their own D-3 team, let alone other teams. Almost every team has got a pretty good guy (experienced or hard throwing or great control)to run out there and get everybody out.
An example would be a 2007 freshman that had to go play against Cortland in a DH and they throw Dougher and Jweid. The kids got little chance because he has never seen guys as good as those(experience).

2. Most freshman don't play alot off the bat and lack the experience needed to make the adjustments to good pitching. With good pitchers, you might only get 1 good pitch per AB to hit and if you miss it or foul it off your at bat is wasted.

3. Freshman are freshman and they have alot on their plate. School, new freedom, girls everywhere and lastly baseball. Freshman are rarely ready to figure out how to juggle all this stuff.

As with anything, talent trumps alot of this. There are Freshman capable of leading there team in hitting, but thats got more to do with their natural ability being better than everyone else. Maybe 15-20% of freshman get significant playing time and most don't really contribute until maybe later in the season when they start to figure IT out.

I know there are bunch of freshman that contribute to their teams throughout the country, but the % of freshman that don't do squat their freshman year is way higher.

[Jim Dixon]

3. Freshman are freshman and they have alot on their plate. School, new freedom, girls everywhere and lastly baseball. Freshman are rarely ready to figure out how to juggle all this stuff.

As with anything, talent trumps alot of this. There are Freshman capable of leading there team in hitting, but thats got more to do with their natural ability being better than everyone else. Maybe 15-20% of freshman get significant playing time and most don't really contribute until maybe later in the season when they start to figure IT out.

I know there are bunch of freshman that contribute to their teams throughout the country, but the % of freshman that don't do squat their freshman year is way higher.

The new experience (college) is a major adjustment for freshmen.  Just like they have to get use to a higher level on the baseball field, they have to get use to the higher level in the classroom.

Also there are a lot of freshmen who are recruited to replace a senior so they dont get the playing time that makes them better.

Scuba16 makes a good point that those with talent will get a chance.  I remember a story on the high school coach who had Peyton and then Eli Manning.  He still has a filing cabinet filled with plays that he cannot use since the mannings were not your average high school QB

[BoomerIL]

scuba16......Jim Dixon......

Thank you for your responses!!  Your appraisals make sense.  Like I mentioned, I was curious.

You both mentioned in no certain terms that talent, playing time, academics and other distractions play a part in a freshmans ability to excel in their first year of college ball.  I totally agree that being organized, and also being able to manage ones time is extremely important, and most difficult.  I think the level of pitching though, in many respects, is comparable to high school.  Yes, the level is also better!  I know that doesn't seem to make much sense in what I am saying but if you think about it, you know what I mean.

You definitely have better pitching in college, and also better hitting.  I attribute that to those players who take extra time in the off-season working on strength, weight, speed, technique, etc. to be at the higher levels of their own particular game.  Could they play DI or DII?  Sure, but grades would be sacrficied.  I really think that the DIII player is best equiped for the future having experienced the difficulty of athletics, but more importantly, the difficulty of a higher education.

[scuba16]

The thing about D-1 and D-3 in NY is this, There are 41 baseball playing D-3 schools in NY compared to 10 or 11 NY D-1 schools. That means alot of the kids that go on to play baseball in college will play D-3. Especially position players because NY D-1 schools give alot of there scholarship $ to pitchers, and u have to do that to be competitive with other D-1's.
That leaves little options for kids that want to play D-1 baseball.
Take the state of North Carolina, they have a ton of D-1's and only a handful of D-3's. Alot of the baseball players in NC that play college baseball play at the D-1 level, they have a greater chance because there are simply more D-1 schools and therefor more opportunity.
I think there are a ton of kids every yr in NY that could play D-1 in other states but NY baseball season is short and Coaches usaully try to recruit in-state as much as possible unless a kid is an absolute stud.

[Bob Maxwell]

Boomer,  I think that in some cases some of the pitching can be compared to what you may see in the top HS pitchers.  There are teams where much of the pitching staff is like that... and on some teams you see that after you get down to the middle of the staff... on some teams it just isn't so as they are all top level guys.

That is what seperates the teams...  the depth and quality of pitching.  I feel as if the top teams in any region go at least 5 deep and the teams that move into the NCAA for the most part are deeper then that on the mound.  There are exceptions both ways...

But there are a lot of guys pitching who are starters for many teams that struggle against a good batting order.  Not bad pitchers from HS... but also, guys who just don't have the command of their pitches in the strike zone and get hurt becasue of it.

The conversation about hitting is interesting... and I think its the same with pitching.  You can be a great HS pitcher with an 85-86 MPH fastball or a good curve ball.... and throw the ball by all but one, maybe two, hitters in most HS lineups.  In College (even at D-III... well decsribed Scuba +1) even the guys who bat 8 or 9 in a lineup are the guys who hit 1, 3 & 4 in the HS lineups... and if you can't make pitches consistently they hit you.

The college pitcher has to be able to foucs and make pitches through out the enitre lineup agasint the top teams... and to at least 3-4 guys against even the weakest teams. 

It is interesting to think about it from both points of view... batters and pitchers... as they both have moved into a new level of play when they leave HS.

[scuba16]

IMO, movement, change of speed and location are the keys as you progress levels in pitching. If you are not a guy that throws real hard in college, you had better have some movement, change speeds or your going to get ripped.
HS guys can get away with straight stuff and sometimes while i'm coaching a HS game you say to yourself, why can't we hit this guy throwing 75-80? The light usually goes on shortly afterward and I realize the kids got some movement, is changing speeds and is working the plate effectively.

Same thing happens in college, you'll read about a guy with great #'s and then you see him pich and wonder, how does this guy not get ripped, he's throwing 84? Then you watch for a few innings as this pitcher hits his spots, changes speeds, has great movement and commands his FB, CB and Change. He eats up hitters like its his job and everybody goes up there guessing cause this guy can deal and he knows what he is doing. Its a thing of beauty to watch a guy that can't throw hard get everybody out!

The bottom line is pitching, actual pitching, is all about:
1.making your delivery look the same on every pitch
2.make all your pitches look the same out of your hand
3.change speeds
4.have some movement
5.be able to put it where you want it, pitching to corners
6. throw all your pitches for strikes or balls when you need to

[Jim Dixon]

IMO, movement, change of speed and location are the keys...
as you progress levels in pitching. If you are not a guy that throws real hard in college, you

I think this is embodied in the statement that a good pitcher pitches, a bad one throws.

[BoomerIL]

Yeah, like they say in real estate, "location, location, location."  I watched Jason Glushon from Emory (drafted, and now pitching in the minors) pitch against our kids in Florida.  He is not that big and not overpowering, but could he hit his spots and change speeds!  I don't think he even throws in the nineties.  I could be wrong. 

O.K., some of you will say that he pitched against Rochester.  You know quality pitching can beat hitters any day.  Our kids were hitting the ball on the ground and in the air, with the occasional hit mixed in, but our kids were hitting him, its just that he had them off-balance.  The sign of a pretty darned good pitcher.  The same was true when Rochester faced Giovanni from Union and Zongol from RPI.  Although I think Zongol throws in the ninities.  If you have a savy pitcher, chances are pretty good that the team he is facing is going to struggle.

I do believe that good hitters can and will hit good pitchers anyway, no matter if they are seasoned college players, or your freahman as we mentioned in an earlier posting.  Now, these hitters may not be able to pull-the-ball or go-deep, but I think that for them it is a great opportunity to practice their opposite field hitting or to focus on recognizing/hitting the off-speed pitches.  This is just my opinion.