BB: Midwest Region

[BigPoppa]

I guess I am not sure why the WIAC is changing formats from the majority of the nation.  Is it an attempt to make the regular season title mean that much more?

[Dagger]

Personally I absolute hate the current format!  You either need to keep it the same as it used to be with a 4 team double elimination, or include all teams and really make it interesting.  I have always been a fan of putting all the teams in and having the tournament shake out as it will.  There's no need in my mind for the WIAC to try and ensure the #1 team from the regular season also wins the tournament, which is clearly what they're doing, because I can't imagine that in too many instances the 1 seed from the regular season not getting an at large if they were to falter in the tournament.  I mean you can't possibly set up a more lopsided tournament than what they have in place right now, total joke!

[badgerwarhawk]

The coaches voted to move the tournament from Wisconsin Rapids to on campus facilities.  Given the choice of a four team tournament or a three team one they voted for the three team format for a couple of reasons.  With a four team format you'll either have to play a night game, have multiple playing diamonds or a three day tournament.  WHITEWATER is the only program with lights.  Obviously we aren't guaranteed to host every year so that works against a four team format.  No program has two on campus facilities on which a game can be played.  The last factor is economic.  A three day tournament, four team, tournament involves extra expense.  Given the current economic situation the league has been implementing cost cutting measures in nearly every sport.  Baseball is no exception. 

I don't really like the format either but I prefer it to playing off campus.  The program that wins the regular conference title deserves to host. 

[BigPoppa]

... but it REALLY puts a premium on winning the WIAC regular season. (Though I hate the format) It sucks for mid-level teams that almost never have a chance to make it there with the Big Three always at the top.

[cubs]

The coaches voted to move the tournament from Wisconsin Rapids to on campus facilities.  Given the choice of a four team tournament or a three team one they voted for the three team format for a couple of reasons.  With a four team format you'll either have to play a night game, have multiple playing diamonds or a three day tournament.  WHITEWATER is the only program with lights.  Obviously we aren't guaranteed to host every year so that works against a four team format.  No program has two on campus facilities on which a game can be played.  The last factor is economic.  A three day tournament, four team, tournament involves extra expense.  Given the current economic situation the league has been implementing cost cutting measures in nearly every sport.  Baseball is no exception.

Well said BW!!! +K  You pretty much touched on every point I was going to make.  One thing I would like to add however, is that it really chaps my arse that if you look at the WIAC Softball Tournament this season, they added a third day to the tournament, after being a two-day tournament last year.  Why can't baseball do the same if it's all about equality?  This way the Top 4 teams could get in and you could do a true double elimination tournament and be done in the three days just like softball.

[badgerwarhawk]

... but it REALLY puts a premium on winning the WIAC regular season. (Though I hate the format) It sucks for mid-level teams that almost never have a chance to make it there with the Big Three always at the top.

In the 13 tournaments the #3 seed has been someone other than WHITEWATER, Oshkosh or Stevens Point five times.  That's 38% of the time.  LaCrosse was the #3 seed in 1999, 2001, 2002 and 2006.  Platteville was the #3 seed in 2010.  This year the #3 seed wasn't clinched until the last weekend of the season. 

I was wondering the same thing, cubs. 

[BigPoppa]

... BUT, if a team does not have a chance at a Pool C(in the four-team format), might they have been content to rest arms and sit in the #4 slot in hopes of doing some damage in the WIAC tourney? Just a thought.

[Dagger]

The coaches voted to move the tournament from Wisconsin Rapids to on campus facilities.  Given the choice of a four team tournament or a three team one they voted for the three team format for a couple of reasons.  With a four team format you'll either have to play a night game, have multiple playing diamonds or a three day tournament.  WHITEWATER is the only program with lights.  Obviously we aren't guaranteed to host every year so that works against a four team format.  No program has two on campus facilities on which a game can be played.  The last factor is economic.  A three day tournament, four team, tournament involves extra expense.  Given the current economic situation the league has been implementing cost cutting measures in nearly every sport.  Baseball is no exception. 

I don't really like the format either but I prefer it to playing off campus.  The program that wins the regular conference title deserves to host. 

A couple quick comments...first of all, economically for the teams it may cost more to be put up an extra night, however the benefits of having all the family and friends come to town for an extra day in my opinion outweigh the extra nights expenses for hotel rooms.  It's about more than just saving a dime here and there, and in this case the overall picture is a positive economic outcome for the whole community by expanding the tournament, not to mention a better experience for the players (and more players since more teams would be in). 

As for the lights and fields...no place has two fields on campus, and only WW has lights ON CAMPUS, but Point and Oshkosh could easily put together the necessary resources (multiple fields) and at least one with lights.  Point could use rapids, or even stay in town and use bukholt park which isn't all that bad plus university field.  Oshkosh has their field and the field that has hosted regionals, WW might be harder pressed to find a decent second field, but what I'm trying to get at is that these "reasons" are BS excuses in my opinion.  There's come a time when saving an extra $1,200 at the cost of maintaining the integrity of the tournament can not be allowed. 

The biggest losers are the middle of the pack programs that already struggle to pull recruits from the big three.  If they at least got to play in the tournament every year maybe they could win a game or two once or twice and then have something to hang their hat on for recruiting purposes.  Who would go to stout or platteville when they might make the tournament once if you're lucky during your career, when you can just go to the other three and pretty much guarantee that you'll make it every year?  Give these schools a chance to prove themselves come crunch time and allow for the playing fields to even out a bit.  As long as this format remains in place, there will be no parity outside of the top 3 in this league, it's simply not possible.

I have a hard time believing that the coaches themselves were in favor of this format, they were maybe told to be in favor of it...nobody I know is a big fan of it, and if I"m a coach there's no way I vote in favor of it! 

[biggio34]

I have a hard time believing that the coaches themselves were in favor of this format, they were maybe told to be in favor of it...nobody I know is a big fan of it, and if I"m a coach there's no way I vote in favor of it! 

What if you are a coach of one of the three that make it... then do you vote in favor of it?

[badgerwarhawk]

A couple quick comments...first of all, economically for the teams it may cost more to be put up an extra night, however the benefits of having all the family and friends come to town for an extra day in my opinion outweigh the extra nights expenses for hotel rooms.  It's about more than just saving a dime here and there, and in this case the overall picture is a positive economic outcome for the whole community by expanding the tournament, not to mention a better experience for the players (and more players since more teams would be in).

None of that money goes to the league.  They're the ones bearing the extra expense and getting nothing in return.  If their goal was to provide an economic boost to the community I could see your point.  But their goal is to determine a post season participant and try to generate some revenue for themselves.

As for the lights and fields...no place has two fields on campus, and only WW has lights ON CAMPUS, but Point and Oshkosh could easily put together the necessary resources (multiple fields) and at least one with lights.  Point could use rapids, or even stay in town and use bukholt park which isn't all that bad plus university field.  Oshkosh has their field and the field that has hosted regionals, WW might be harder pressed to find a decent second field, but what I'm trying to get at is that these "reasons" are BS excuses in my opinion.  There's come a time when saving an extra $1,200 at the cost of maintaining the integrity of the tournament can not be allowed.  

You only talk about how two of  the "big three" could make it work.  What about the others?  WHITEWATER already tried it using the high school and on one occasion Jefferson High School's field.  Nobody liked that.  Can Platteville make it work? Stout? Superior?  They're the ones getting the short end of the stick.  LaCosse could maybe make it work with several other fields available.  Not that it matters but the only program that liked playing in Wisconsin Rapids was Stevens Point.  Nobody else liked it.

The biggest losers are the middle of the pack programs that already struggle to pull recruits from the big three.  If they at least got to play in the tournament every year maybe they could win a game or two once or twice and then have something to hang their hat on for recruiting purposes.  Who would go to stout or platteville when they might make the tournament once if you're lucky during your career, when you can just go to the other three and pretty much guarantee that you'll make it every year?  Give these schools a chance to prove themselves come crunch time and allow for the playing fields to even out a bit.  As long as this format remains in place, there will be no parity outside of the top 3 in this league, it's simply not possible.

They have the whole season to prove it.

I have a hard time believing that the coaches themselves were in favor of this format, they were maybe told to be in favor of it...nobody I know is a big fan of it, and if I"m a coach there's no way I vote in favor of it!  

I've already said that I don't particularly like it but it is what it is.

[Dagger]

I have a hard time believing that the coaches themselves were in favor of this format, they were maybe told to be in favor of it...nobody I know is a big fan of it, and if I"m a coach there's no way I vote in favor of it! 

What if you are a coach of one of the three that make it... then do you vote in favor of it?

no I would not, I really wouldn't!  I would rather play my way through a real bracket then get it handed to me on a platter, I'm too competitive of a person to accept an unfair advantage in competition and feel good about winning.  I want to play on an even field against everyone's best.  That's the whole beauty of the tournament, you play all year to make it and then get a good seed, but when push comes to shove it's a brand new season where everyone is 0-0 and EVERYONE has a chance to win it.  The current setup couldn't be farther away....


as for the making it work for others, the tournament should be played at a neutral site, there's plenty of them around, that offer two fields with lights, this is not a new concept, it's done all across the country at many levels.  I understand that the conference wants to represent itself with the best team possible during the postseason, but there's no reason to force a team into it.  many times the #1 seed may not be the best team.  Winning conference in itself is awesome, its a morale boost, a chip on the shoulder for the players, they dont need to be handed an unfair advantage in the tournament then.  if you need to, start the tournament a day earlier so you have time to get it in in case of inclement weather.  If the number 1 seed is truly the best team on all levels and in all aspects of the game, then they should win the tournament right?

As far as money is concerned, like I said at some point you cant jeopardize the integrity of a competitive tournament because you want to save some money, cut costs in other areas of operations throughout the year.

I'm going to drop it after this, I don't like the setup the way it is, takes away from the aura of the tournament in my opinion.

[cubs]

Things stay the same at the top, but the 4-6 positions not only change, but three completely different teams join the rankings this week.

1 Wisconsin-Stevens Point 29-6 30-8 (Same)
2 Wisconsin-Whitewater 28-9 29-9 (Same)
3 St. Scholastica 25-3 32-5 (Same)
4 St. Thomas (Minn.) 21-9 23-14
5 Bethany Lutheran 22-8 25-8
6 Concordia Chicago 28-7 33-7

Macalester, Hamline, and Aurora are out, while St. Thomas, Bethany Lutheran and Concordia-Chicago are in.  If you are Macalester, Hamline, or Aurora, at least you know going into the your conference tournament you need to win it all or your season is over.

[BigPoppa]

Things stay the same at the top, but the 4-6 positions not only change, but three completely different teams join the rankings this week.

1 Wisconsin-Stevens Point 29-6 30-8 (Same)
2 Wisconsin-Whitewater 28-9 29-9 (Same)
3 St. Scholastica 25-3 32-5 (Same)
4 St. Thomas (Minn.) 21-9 23-14
5 Bethany Lutheran 22-8 25-8
6 Concordia Chicago 28-7 33-7

Macalester, Hamline, and Aurora are out, while St. Thomas, Bethany Lutheran and Concordia-Chicago are in.  If you are Macalester, Hamline, or Aurora, at least you know going into the your conference tournament you need to win it all or your season is over.

I think the bottom three could realistically say the same thing.

[cubs]

Things stay the same at the top, but the 4-6 positions not only change, but three completely different teams join the rankings this week.

1 Wisconsin-Stevens Point 29-6 30-8 (Same)
2 Wisconsin-Whitewater 28-9 29-9 (Same)
3 St. Scholastica 25-3 32-5 (Same)
4 St. Thomas (Minn.) 21-9 23-14
5 Bethany Lutheran 22-8 25-8
6 Concordia Chicago 28-7 33-7

Macalester, Hamline, and Aurora are out, while St. Thomas, Bethany Lutheran and Concordia-Chicago are in.  If you are Macalester, Hamline, or Aurora, at least you know going into the your conference tournament you need to win it all or your season is over.

I think the bottom three could realistically say the same thing.

Very true, however St. Thomas may have an outside shot at a Pool C, with the high SOS, depending on what happens at the National Level if they happened to get beat in the MIAC Tournamnet Title Game.

[MIACLUV]

Nice to see the Tommies recent success rewarded in the rankings. Very surprised to see Mac bounced out. I think the 5 & 6 spots are interchangeable with four or five teams.