MBB: Landmark Conference

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Considering I have seen teams from both conferences... I wouldn't do that with the top of the NESCAC. Juniata is a very well coached team with some quality players... and Merchant Marine certainly has size inside with a very good coach... but that doesn't mean they are going to beat Amherst, Williams or Middlebury. I am not underestimating them in any way... but the top of the NESCAC has won a lot more games this season, in the NCAA tournament and made trips to the Final Four and won championships than either of those two teams... who had trouble beating some beatable teams this year.

[Charles]

Considering I have seen teams from both conferences... I wouldn't do that with the top of the NESCAC. Juniata is a very well coached team with some quality players... and Merchant Marine certainly has size inside with a very good coach... but that doesn't mean they are going to beat Amherst, Williams or Middlebury. I am not underestimating them in any way... but the top of the NESCAC has won a lot more games this season, in the NCAA tournament and made trips to the Final Four and won championships than either of those two teams... who had trouble beating some beatable teams this year.

don't forget Scranton either. Landmark was very competitive this year!

[Pat Coleman]

Matt... you want to reward a team for playing in a weaker conference and thus a weaker SOS versus a team that played in a more challenging conference, had a better SOS, and proved they could win with that schedule?

The .02 difference in SOS is sizable and it was probably a bigger spread since Williams played Middlebury and Amherst in the final week and Catholic played Merchant Marine and Juniata. And if we are looking at the primary criteria and basically all of them are a wash but SOS is the biggest difference - why shouldn't they give the team with the better SOS the host? If Williams and Catholic were up for the final at-large bid, they would use the exact same criteria and probably choose Williams because of the SOS.

Should we have the game between Wooster and Cabrini be played at Cabrini because the Cavs SOS was hurt so much by their conference?

Husson making the tournament does not help Catholic. There is no criteria for who in the tournament you played and Husson never made the regional rankings in any week including the last. Also, Husson doesn't exactly have a great WP and their opponents weren't that great... so that means a weak SOS.

Believe it or not... there are five criteria in the primary criteria and if most are a wash - and they pretty much are - and one is clearly better (and .02+ difference is noticeable)... then guess what... the SOS is the determining factor. It is just one of the criteria... but the others can't help make the decision. If they went to secondary criteria, there is a chance CUA would have gotten the bid thanks to the game with Transylvania counting in many parts... but clearly the SOS probably out-weighed having to go to secondary criteria.

Dissing Merchant Marine and Juniata is unfair. MMA and Juniata are two very good programs. Their kids are tough and they play hard.

Tough kids who play hard is not part of the criteria. There are hundreds of schools with tough kids who play hard.

I'd put MMA and Juniata against any team in the NESCAC. I think you misunderestimate how good they are.

MMA put itself up against the NESCAC's 10th-place team and did manage to win by 8. Back-and-forth game in the second half. MMA didn't take the lead for good until the 3:29 mark.

[cugrad]

What is the point of having national rankings?  Alvernia is unranked nationally, yet are ranked #1 in the mid-atlantic.  Catholic is ranked 8th nationally, yet ranked second in the mid-adlantic.  Does that make sense?  Why not have Catholic where St. Mary's is?  Please dont tell me that there are plenty of matchups like CU at Williams.  I dont see it.  I was very impressed with RMC when I saw them play at Catholic, however, Catholic would not back down to RMC, particularly at home.  Home court in D3 is a major advantage.  Are you saying that Catholic is not as good today as they were in December?  Finally, I am well aware that Catholic will be playing at Williams regardless of my opinions.

[toad22]

As a Williams fan. I am very happy that the Game will be played in Williamstown. I would, as many Catholic fans seem to be, aggrieved at having to travel to DC. There is no easy answer to this question. The good news is that there is a game to be played, and the NCAA will be sure that it will be fairly played. If Catholic wins, I will congratulate the team and the fans. There is nothing unfair about the process. Williams has been to the final 4 six different times in the last 15 years. At least one of those years we played on the road nearly the whole way. It can be done. You shouldn't feel that this is a death sentence. If you are better, you will likely win.

[Pat Coleman]

What is the point of having national rankings? Alvernia is unranked nationally, yet are ranked #1 in the mid-atlantic.  Catholic is ranked 8th nationally, yet ranked second in the mid-adlantic.  Does that make sense?  Why not have Catholic where St. Mary's is?  Please dont tell me that there are plenty of matchups like CU at Williams.  I dont see it.  I was very impressed with RMC when I saw them play at Catholic, however, Catholic would not back down to RMC, particularly at home.  Home court in D3 is a major advantage.  Are you saying that Catholic is not as good today as they were in December?  Finally, I am well aware that Catholic will be playing at Williams regardless of my opinions.

National rankings tell you who the good teams are. What's the point of regional rankings which reward teams who play a bunch of above-average opponents but no ranked ones?

cugrad: Also playing this weekend, No. 5 UW-Whitewater at No. 3 North Central. It actually does happen fairly regularly.

[cugrad]

Go Cards!

[nescac1]

"I'd put MMA and Juniata against any team in the NESCAC. I think you misunderestimate how good they are." --Charles

Charles has also now made on several occasions the same cryptic and nonsensical comment about shirt sleeves and flopping. 

This is the same Charles notorious on the NESCAC board for any number of ridiculous statements about the relative caliber of NESCAC teams, including his continual insistence that Wesleyan was superior to Middlebury.  And the same Charles who dissed the caliber of play in the CCIW, another conference that has proven, year in and year out, the caliber of its programs.  I'm not sure what criteria Charles employs to evaluate basketball teams, but clearly, "ability to play basketball well" is not among them.  I don't think that anyone in NESCAC is exactly sweating Charles's assessments after he proclaimed that Wesleyan was the best team in the conference halfway through the season ...

[Charles]

"I'd put MMA and Juniata against any team in the NESCAC. I think you misunderestimate how good they are." --Charles

Charles has also now made on several occasions the same cryptic and nonsensical comment about shirt sleeves and flopping. 

This is the same Charles notorious on the NESCAC board for any number of ridiculous statements about the relative caliber of NESCAC teams, including his continual insistence that Wesleyan was superior to Middlebury.  And the same Charles who dissed the caliber of play in the CCIW, another conference that has proven, year in and year out, the caliber of its programs.  I'm not sure what criteria Charles employs to evaluate basketball teams, but clearly, "ability to play basketball well" is not among them.  I don't think that anyone in NESCAC is exactly sweating Charles's assessments after he proclaimed that Wesleyan was the best team in the conference halfway through the season ...

Ok if you're going to play this way Jeff. First of all it is called a shooting sleeve and they even look silly on kids in rec travel basketball. Second I thought that IWU did look slow and did not think they should have been ranked 2nd because I thought that they would struggle against faster teams but they played great in their first round game, so good for them. Yes, I loved the PG from Wesleyan, have known him for years and thought that he was an excellent point guard. Sorry it didn't work out for him. I like the Landmark Conference becasue they have real good coaches, and I like their style of play. I have much respect for many of the NESCAC coaches. I have had many conversations with a number of them and gasp even went to high school with one of them. It's really the alumni that are the annoying ones  . The sweater tied up on their shoulders over their Izod shirts, the Nantucket red pants, the Sperry top siders, the stiff upper lip. Just face it, if you could have gotten into an Ivy League School you would have gone, right? And the funny thing is, I have coached at one time 4 current NESCAC players before they went to off college, what?

[nescac1]

And this is why you have -65 karma, Charles ... I've never seen a single Williams student or alum wearing a "sweater tied up on their shoulders over an Izod shirt" or "Nantucket red pants" (whatever those are ...).  I think you've been watching a bit too much Caddyshack, as your only cultural reference apparently is 30 years dated.  You certainly haven't set foot on many NESCAC campuses in the past, I don't know, decade, if that is your image of how NESCAC students dress and behave.  And of course, at least half the students at Williams probably DID get into an Ivy league school (certainly at least half of my friends did, I can tell you that for a fact), but that's not really relevant to anything other than to your level of ignorance. 

Good to know that  your observational skills are as deficient in other arenas as they clearly are in hoops.  No one ever said that Sha Brown of Wesleyan wasn't a great player.  It was YOU who made the claim that Wesleyan was substantially better than Middlebury, when that claim was debunked, over, and over again.  If you want to say things that have no basis in reality, that is your right, but it kind of diminishes your overall credibility when you do.  You may not bbe impressed by IWU and other CCIW teams, but why should anyone care when those teams prove, again and again, that they are among the elite in D-3 year in and year out?  You may think Wesleyan (CT) is the best team in the country, but if they were, they wouldn't have finished eighth (barely) in NESCAC.  Just because you know and like a player doesn't mean that his team is automatically elite.  Just becuase you aren't familiar with teams (like in the CCIW) doesn't mean that they suck.  Results speak for themselves, and results show that your observations of basketball -- much like your observations about NESCAC students -- are rooted 100 percent in personal biases and your fervid imagination rather than, I don't know, REALITY. 

[Matt Letourneau]

Okay, so anyway, there's a game Saturday between two outstanding schools with great basketball tradition, and two Jostens finalists will be on the court. 

[Charles]

And this is why you have -65 karma, Charles ... I've never seen a single Williams student or alum wearing a "sweater tied up on their shoulders over an Izod shirt" or "Nantucket red pants" (whatever those are ...).  I think you've been watching a bit too much Caddyshack, as your only cultural reference apparently is 30 years dated.  You certainly haven't set foot on many NESCAC campuses in the past, I don't know, decade, if that is your image of how NESCAC students dress and behave.  And of course, at least half the students at Williams probably DID get into an Ivy league school (certainly at least half of my friends did, I can tell you that for a fact), but that's not really relevant to anything other than to your level of ignorance. 

Good to know that  your observational skills are as deficient in other arenas as they clearly are in hoops.  No one ever said that Sha Brown of Wesleyan wasn't a great player.  It was YOU who made the claim that Wesleyan was substantially better than Middlebury, when that claim was debunked, over, and over again.  If you want to say things that have no basis in reality, that is your right, but it kind of diminishes your overall credibility when you do.  You may not bbe impressed by IWU and other CCIW teams, but why should anyone care when those teams prove, again and again, that they are among the elite in D-3 year in and year out?  You may think Wesleyan (CT) is the best team in the country, but if they were, they wouldn't have finished eighth (barely) in NESCAC.  Just because you know and like a player doesn't mean that his team is automatically elite.  Just becuase you aren't familiar with teams (like in the CCIW) doesn't mean that they suck.  Results speak for themselves, and results show that your observations of basketball -- much like your observations about NESCAC students -- are rooted 100 percent in personal biases and your fervid imagination rather than, I don't know, REALITY.

thank you for the angry response and misrepresenation of what I wrote, but I am very familiar with the NESCAC crowd and count many alumni as friends. and yes they have yachts and vacation on martha's vineyard. I think Amherst was the best team in the NESCAC this year, I just liked the Wesleyan back court and thought that they were pretty good, but it didn't happen. There is always next year.  I have never used a players name and I have never used the word "suck" because in the end they are just kids. So just remember "It's easy to grin / When your ship comes in / And you've got the stock market beat. / But the man worthwhile, / Is the man who can smile, / When his shorts are too tight in the seat". 

[nescac1]

If you've insultingly stereotyped an entire group of people, then insist on defending yourself by citing to friendships with members of the group you've stereotyped  (aka, the I-have-black-friends, or in this case, the I-have-NESCAC-friends defense), you've already lost your argument.  Clearly, by the way, I'm hanging with the wrong bunch of Williams alums, since none of my friends seem to have yachts or vacation homes!  And that's the last breath I'll waste in responding. 

[TheGrove]

Okay, so anyway, there's a game Saturday between two outstanding schools with great basketball tradition, and two Jostens finalists will be on the court.

+k for the attempt to get things back on track. 

[ronk]

 Possibly, it's part of the secondary criteria for the hosting decision.