MBB: Landmark Conference

Tim the Enchanter · February 24, 2019, 02:42:21 PM

Congratulations to Moravian!

If there was a slim chance for the Royals getting a pool C, it has slimmed to pretty much nothing with Moravian beating up on Drew this afternoon. Scranton would be the third option in the Landmark, and I highly doubt the selection committee would go that deep.

ronk · February 25, 2019, 09:15:27 PM

Looks like Scranton's .489 non conference SOS was a major contributor to non selection for a pool C berth.
Recommend tha part of the schedule be beefed up; the easiest way is to upgrade the teams invited to the Radisson tourney; that way, you don't have to worry about establishing a home-and-home setup; the 2 they played this year won 9 games between them the previous year. If you're only inviting 1 good team, make sure you play them(1st round or in a classic mode).

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh · February 25, 2019, 09:20:10 PM

ronk - that wasn't the only problem. Scranton didn't finish ranked in the last regional rankings. They were at least behind both Mary Washington and Johns Hopkins on the rankings for a chance to be considered. They also had a .519 SOS (which the non-conference didn't help) and there were several teams who had BETTER WL% than Scranton who didn't get in or didn't get considered.

When you have an SOS (and non-conf SOS) numbers like that ... you have to win.

They did finish 3-3 vRRO, but that would be drastically different as well if they certainly scheduled better .. but also won.

You hit on they have to schedule better (especially at home which is weighted less), but I would encourage they also go on the road a little more if they could to good teams.

ronk · February 25, 2019, 09:24:59 PM

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 25, 2019, 09:20:10 PM
ronk - that wasn't the only problem. Scranton didn't finish ranked in the last regional rankings. They were at least behind both Mary Washington and Johns Hopkins on the rankings for a chance to be considered. They also had a .519 SOS (which the non-conference didn't help) and there were several teams who had BETTER WL% than Scranton who didn't get in or didn't get considered.

When you have an SOS (and non-conf SOS) numbers like that ... you have to win.

They did finish 3-3 vRRO, but that would be drastically different as well if they certainly scheduled better .. but also won.

You hit on they have to schedule better (especially at home which is weighted less), but I would encourage they also go on the road a little more if they could to good teams.

It was the reason that they weren't ranked 1st among the pool C teams in the region.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh · February 25, 2019, 11:19:31 PM

Ronk ... no way in hell. They were not even regionally ranked in their region. You think the non-conference was the ONLY reason they not only weren't ranked in the region ... but above both Mary Washington and Johns Hopkins ... plus Arcadia at the very least?

That is not realistic at all. .516 SOS compared Mary Washington's .556, JHU's .573... the non-conference could help the .516, but the conference did a lot to bring that down as well.

Drew was at .525 and Moravian was at .538. Two losses to Drew don't help.

Man ... there was a lot more wrong than the non-conference SOS that kept Scranton from being a realistic Pool C bid this year. YES, they need to improve the non-conference SOS .. but they would have had to have a non-conf SOS of .600 or something ... AND WIN to help themselves.

ronk · February 25, 2019, 11:29:30 PM

The only part of a team's SOS that they can affect is the NCOS; so they have to raise the NCOS; the conference SOS part is out of their control.
They took care of the win; none of the region's pool C teams had as good a W/L %.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh · February 25, 2019, 11:34:51 PM

Quote from: ronk on February 25, 2019, 11:29:30 PM
The only part of a team's SOS that they can affect is the NCOS; so they have to raise the NCOS; the conference SOS part is out of their control.
They took care of the win; none of the region's pool C teams had as good a W/L %.

That isn't entirely true. I can tell you of multiple conversations I have had with coaches who have had heart to heart conversations with their conferences about better scheduling to help the top of the conferences out. And it has made a difference.

And they didn't take care of the wins, ronk. There is a 26-win team sitting at home right now, La Roche, that also took care of the wins. 20 wins was pretty average to "eh" for any Pool C consideration. That's where not losing to E-Town and Susquehanna (TWICE!) would have helped as well. A lot of 20 win teams were left home. A lot.

ronk · February 25, 2019, 11:50:30 PM

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 25, 2019, 11:34:51 PM
Quote from: ronk on February 25, 2019, 11:29:30 PM
The only part of a team's SOS that they can affect is the NCOS; so they have to raise the NCOS; the conference SOS part is out of their control.
They took care of the win; none of the region's pool C teams had as good a W/L %.

That isn't entirely true. I can tell you of multiple conversations I have had with coaches who have had heart to heart conversations with their conferences about better scheduling to help the top of the conferences out. And it has made a difference.

And they didn't take care of the wins, ronk. There is a 26-win team sitting at home right now, La Roche, that also took care of the wins. 20 wins was pretty average to "eh" for any Pool C consideration. That's where not losing to E-Town and Susquehanna (TWICE!) would have helped as well. A lot of 20 win teams were left home. A lot.

I'm just talking about their standing in the M/A region, not any other region.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh · February 26, 2019, 01:21:11 PM

It's the same argument, ronk. Doesn't matter what region I am talking about. The national committee is the one who ultimately publishes the rankings and makes sure all regions are working in the same sphere.

And I see many ways Scranton needed to improve their standing in the Mid-Atlantic. I am agreeing their non-conference schedule has got to improve vastly, but what I am also saying is that they also need to win more games especially against opponents with .500 or worse records.

The SOS can be overcome, but not when a team is losing to teams that aren't helping the SOS. Lose to teams which provide significantly better SOS help is better than losing to teams that hurt the SOS.

NEPAFAN · February 26, 2019, 02:16:28 PM

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 26, 2019, 01:21:11 PM
It's the same argument, ronk. Doesn't matter what region I am talking about. The national committee is the one who ultimately publishes the rankings and makes sure all regions are working in the same sphere.

And I see many ways Scranton needed to improve their standing in the Mid-Atlantic. I am agreeing their non-conference schedule has got to improve vastly, but what I am also saying is that they also need to win more games especially against opponents with .500 or worse records.

The SOS can be overcome, but not when a team is losing to teams that aren't helping the SOS. Lose to teams which provide significantly better SOS help is better than losing to teams that hurt the SOS.

You are the only one arguing. Ronk is just giving observations.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh · February 26, 2019, 03:39:42 PM

Grr... just noticed the data sheets I might have been looking at last night were last year's ... working on this. SMH

ronk · February 26, 2019, 03:55:04 PM

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 26, 2019, 03:39:42 PM
Grr... just noticed the data sheets I might have been looking at last night were last year's ... working on this. SMH

Don't think it'll change anything; I was talking generically(independent of which data sheets are used) that:

Scranton needs to improve its SOS
the easiest way to do that is by improving the NCSOS
the easiest way to do that is by improving the quality of teams invited to its tourney and play them specifically
their W/L % was already higher than any M/A pool C Candidate.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh · February 26, 2019, 04:22:23 PM

I agree with all of that. I understand what you are saying about WL, but what I am trying to say is the WL still needs to improve. It is this combination of things. Those teams didn't get in the tournament with better SOS numbers and similiar WL numbers. They all have to improve to some degree. There are teams with better WL numbers who didn't get in (and they had similiar SOS numbers to Scranton).

It ALL has to improve to a larger degree is my point.

I absolutely agree, and have said for years, the non-conference schedule has to improve.

Tim the Enchanter · February 27, 2019, 11:18:05 AM

Landmark conference awards came out today:

http://www.landmarkconference.org/sports/mbkb/2018-19/releases/02272019-mbb-awards

Congratulations to all the student-athletes and Coach Keckler for their honors.

saratoga · February 27, 2019, 06:17:31 PM

Two quick observations.

*The issue with the Royals scheduling soft has been happening for too long.
Take a quick look back on their schedule for the past 15 years or so...yawn.

Appears to not be getting any better next year as their Hilton Tournament is bringing in Houghton & Sarah Lawrence.
Please.

*Great to see Logan Bailey rewarded for all his hard work after tearing his ACL last year.
Truly deserving young guy who'll be thrilling Royal fans for 3 more years.

Danzig needs to come up with a true point and the makings are there.