MBB: Landmark Conference

[ronk]

G-manWU,
   No, it doesn't compare-Miseri has a pretty decent team now. The loss that did compare was the 1st loss to Miseri-the same year that they lost to Marywood.

[saratoga]

G-manWU: How I feel about the Miseri debacle is noted in my post of approx. 3:30 Wed's. under the thread Landmark. Didn't mean to start a new one...my intention was to simply add to the existing discussion under Landmark Conference. Just messed it up. This loss was not as bad as the Marywood loss...just as unacceptable but, not quite as bad. Basically  because Miseri can play a little...Marywood was plain awful & still beat Scranton in the Long Center. Just another of the many games the Royals played like they had never prepared for. It certainly seems like Scranton's killer instinct left when Bess hung up the Purple Tux. Pretty boring & uneventful basketball since then. I would rate this loss behind Marywood & blowing an 18 point halftime lead at Drew 3 years ago. However, it probably rates a tie with blowing a 16 point halftime lead at Desales 2 years ago that would have given the Royals first place in the conference. When you think about it, there have been some very serious meltdowns with the Royals the past 5-6 years & at some point you start to wonder............nah, its Thanksgiving...they were just dishing out some joy in Dallas. Yep, I'm going with that one for awhile. Have a great Thanksgiving everyone!

[G-manWU]

Saratoga & Ronk,

Happy Thanksgiving to all of you as well My post was- as always- good-natured fun, no intention to rubbish anyone or any group of people.

Indeed this season's Misericordia team is a cut above Marywood's squad from back then, and from what I remember Scranton had a depleated roster that had been caught between recruting cycles and also had some key injuries when that loss to Marywood happened. Indeed, when you look at Scranton's results from the last five or so seasons, there are a number of disappointing losses to teams that the Royals probably should have beaten. But also, don't forget that by the time postseason play rolls around, they are always in the mix for the conference title. Anytime a team manages to bring home two titles in four seasons, that is a pretty good job by the coaches and players.

Obviously no one enjoys early-season losses in the non-conference slate. But I would never count out the Royals from coking up a good season this early- there's alot of basketball  let out there, and I am sure the Long Center fans are going to enjoy some good times along the way.

[NEPAFAN]

Saratoga,


I share your frustrations with the inconsistencies of this and past Royal teams. My question for you is it A) Coaching, or B) the inability to recruit in an increasingly competitive market. I believe it is B. Years ago ( in the Bess Era) you didn't have to compete with the Miseri and the Marywood for talent. Nevertheless with the University surrounded by cheaper alternatives, I am still frustrated that Scranton has not been able to land top notch talent. Look at Jesuit John Carrol as a similar school and the recruits they are able to bring in.

I am not taking anything away from this team as is. We all know they have talent. But I heard through the grapevine that several transfers balked at the U because of the high tution prices. Coach Danzig certainly has a nitch for recruiting in the Philly burbs,  but we haven't seen him make in roads in Jersey or Long Island. Next year 5 seniors who all get minutes will graduate and after only brining in 2 kids this year, where does that leave Danzig and the Royals? My hope is that they really commit to the recruiting trail this year....with the promise of plenty of minutes....thoughts?

[G-manWU]

NEPAFAN,

You raise an outstanding point with how competitive the recruting market is for schools in NEPA. However, please allow me to add another viewpoint to your discussion.

As a very recent graduate of another 4-year school in the area, I can very much agree about the high prices (esp. adding room and board for some students) making Scranton and others a tough sell on pure dollars. However, as far as I know, Misericordia and Marywood aren't very far behind Scranton in tuition prices. While I did not consider either of those schools for my undergrad years, I did seriously consider what we sometimes call the local "Big 3", and they were all very close in price. In addition, if you look at the rosters for any local team, you will find a handful of locals, but many out-of-towners who come through the recruting pipelines, such as Danzig's good connection with CB-West and, going back a bit further, Bess and the crew from Holy Ghost Prep.

If you asked me what is the biggest recruting obstacle facing the local D3 basketball schools in recruting, I would say it is not so much each other, but rather players who get big ideas and try to make the roster at a D1 school. Great for them if they get a free ride, but many don't and instead wind up chasing playing time that never really comes, when they could be starting and enoying themselves at a D3 school. In District 2, over the past six years or so, I can name a half-dozen guys at least who have throw away what could have been four good years of education and playing time at Scranton/WU/KC/MU for a taste of a D1 roster. Again, good for them if they get a scholarship, but what a waste if not.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Tough night for the Landmark, 7 of the 8 teams lose with USMM having their game postponed. I had the opportunity to take in the Salisbury at Goucher game tonight which going into I thought the Gophers would win going away, however that did not prove to be the case. Couple of random thoughts

-The Gophers are pretty athletic, but very undisciplined and lack any true post players (if you thought they were small last year wait till u see them this year)
-I thought certain players got lost on the bench. Dada and Cotton are two of their best players and although they didn't have their best game and were in foul trouble, should have been on the floor
-Bailey who started for them last year, and was a solid player from what I saw barely played tonight which left me somewhat miffed
-They play a lot of freshman. Two fresh start and two others were in the rotation. Along with them Desouza and Cotton both sophomores play so overall a lot of youth
- Negron had a good game shame he was in foul trouble early
-Freshman Perry shoots to much. I never saw a shot I didn't like, but this guy made me even feel good about some of the shots I used to take. Says he only took 13 shots and had 4 tos but those numbers have to be generous

D-Mac would be interested to hear your thoughts on the game. I think you were the announcer for the game and if you were kudos to you, you were on top of everything.

Well - let me first say I am sorry it took so long to resond. It has been a very busy week and I just never got to this page - sorry!

First off, a lot of your points are good. Foul trouble hurt Goucher on Tuesday night and their inconsistent play and undisaplined ways killed them the rest of the tournament. The team is simply not playing together. However, they do have some good talent that if they can get on the same page (why, after years they haven't figured that out, I am not sure), they will be very good. But they are very much at a size disadvantage.

They certainly have had some of their better players get lost on the bench, especially on Tuesday. Bailey hasn't seemed very sure of himself this season. I think it's because of where he is coming off the bench. He certainly is a good player who seems to have his confidence shaken. He played a much better game on Sunday against Stevenson.

They are a young team which will help them in a few years, but that freshmen and sophomore playing time is hurting that team chemistry right now. Negron is about the only one who is an upper classman getting a lot of playing time - so there are some youth things to work out.

As for Micah Perry, first off let me say my thoughts are with him and his family. He was at neither game this weekend due to the death of a family member. However, your thoughts about his play on Tuesday are nice. He was horrible. He didn't see an opportunity he didn't like, but that lead into dribbling into double-teams because his head was down. He then on nearly three straight possessions, he was responsible for a turnover. In the second half, he should have been benched (IMHO), but he wasn't subbed for. I think if he had been taken out of the game, Goucher would have had a better chance.

We have certainly mentioned the problems for Goucher. Think about this: Saturday's game against Frostburg in which they lost by 8, they shot about .610 from the free throw line and .268 from the floor (15-51). They shot much better against Stevenson on Sunday, but bad decisions in the second half once again cost them the game.

BTW, I am indeed the PA at Goucher; it is a job I love and have been doing for 14 seasons now. Thanks for the props, I appreciate it. Just want to make sure you fans know what is going on!!! Next time you, or anyone else, are at the SRC, make yourself known. I love meeting other D3 fans, including D3hoops.com fans!

[Matt Letourneau]

Catholic had a pretty successful tournament over the weekend at Carniege Mellon in Pittsburgh.   They beat York (NY) 65-55 in the first game and then lost a close game to CMU 61-56.

I didn't make the trip but personally, I was encouraged that they hung with CMU for the entire game.  I don't think a close loss to a quality team at this stage in the season for a really young team is such a bad thing.  The Cardinals continued to get excellent play from Jason Banzhof (35 points in the two games) and RJ Dixon looks like he's still making strides.

Catholic plays Goucher Saturday night at the SRC.  That will be a really fascinating game and a good test for both teams.   On paper, they should be evenly matched.  Both Goucher and Catholic are really young.  I thought that last year, the Cardinals had a bit of a talent advantage, and I think they probably still do (at least judging by Goucher's loss to Stevenson, a team that Catholic handled with ease).  But with a young team on the road, anything can happen--although last year, Goucher actually beat Catholic in DC and lost at home.

[NEPAFAN]

NEPAFAN,

You raise an outstanding point with how competitive the recruting market is for schools in NEPA. However, please allow me to add another viewpoint to your discussion.

As a very recent graduate of another 4-year school in the area, I can very much agree about the high prices (esp. adding room and board for some students) making Scranton and others a tough sell on pure dollars. However, as far as I know, Misericordia and Marywood aren't very far behind Scranton in tuition prices. While I did not consider either of those schools for my undergrad years, I did seriously consider what we sometimes call the local "Big 3", and they were all very close in price. In addition, if you look at the rosters for any local team, you will find a handful of locals, but many out-of-towners who come through the recruting pipelines, such as Danzig's good connection with CB-West and, going back a bit further, Bess and the crew from Holy Ghost Prep.

If you asked me what is the biggest recruting obstacle facing the local D3 basketball schools in recruting, I would say it is not so much each other, but rather players who get big ideas and try to make the roster at a D1 school. Great for them if they get a free ride, but many don't and instead wind up chasing playing time that never really comes, when they could be starting and enoying themselves at a D3 school. In District 2, over the past six years or so, I can name a half-dozen guys at least who have throw away what could have been four good years of education and playing time at Scranton/WU/KC/MU for a taste of a D1 roster. Again, good for them if they get a scholarship, but what a waste if not.

GU,


I did not realize that WU, Kings, MISERI and MU are all on par with Scranton as far as tution goes. I do agree with your point on the lure of D1, especially when it comes to scholarship money. I think that the PSAC (all the D2 schools) are also competition for the local schools.

My question is how does Scranton (or any school for that matter) overcome this? I think Scranton has been very "tight" with their financial aid office. Scranton (agree or disagree) is probably the most regional and well known local school and should be pulling more people in my humble opinion....and let's not get started on diversity..

[hoopzwiz]

You just answered your own question.
Scranton is the most well know school in the local area and as a result can/has been able to recruit from a larger area and get more applications.  As a result, the institution isn't worried about filling beds so getting athletes isn't at the top of their list.  They get good players without lowering the cost or admissions standards so why would they hurt the schools academic profile by making exceptions for athletes.

They do cost more than the other locals which might hurt a little but the reality is that their name alone gives them advantages that other schools don't have. 

They've been to three NCAA tournaments in recent years.......thats pretty good. 

[Matt Letourneau]

Catholic is in something of the same situation in the DC area (among D3 schools, of course).  Some of that might be true (if you want to play for a winner with tradition, Catholic is an appealing destination, with the added bonus of being in a world class city). 

But it is impossible to ignore the new realities of the economy and the financial situation that many families face.  The Catholic basketball team has already been the victim of it, and I believe many private universities in general will be struggling to attract students because of their price tags.  Parents are losing their retirement savings, and it makes it much more difficult to cut a big check for their kids college education.

It will be quite challenging for schools like Catholic and Scranton to continue to thrive in this environment.

[NEPAFAN]

It will be quite challenging for schools like Catholic and Scranton to continue to thrive in this environment.

I imagine it would be a challenge for all of the like minded institutions in the Landmark Conference.

They've been to three NCAA tournaments in recent years.......thats pretty good. 

Yes, but as you can tell by reading these boards Scranton's 1 and done NCAA tournament appearances are not satisfying their fans...

[TheGrove]

Tough night for the Landmark, 7 of the 8 teams lose with USMM having their game postponed.

I'm catching up on the board and just noticed this... but not sure where you got your numbers as Susquehanna didn't even play on the 26th.

[G-manWU]

NEPAFAN & hoopzwiz,

In terms of cost, I believe Scranton is a bit above the other locals, but the difference is not as great as many may believe. Obviously this can differ in the case of each student, given things such as room/board, or involvement in certain academic programs that may require extra costs. But I still don't think the cost factor among local schools would be a huge difference.

In terms of the PSAC, I have never thought of any school in the league as a rival in recruting for a school like Scranton or their conference opponents, past or present. However, from my years of working with the Colonels football program, I can tell you that the PSAC teams were our number one competition for local football talent. Obviously we got some great local players in recent years, but a great deal also chose Bloom/ESU/WCU and some others over our program. There isn't much we could do in that case, and that makes those pipelines/inroads in other metro areas all the more important. We always had a good number of players from the Garden State on the roster as well, but there we face competition from the NJAC schools, so there is always another hurdle to jump over...

[BCannon]

Tough night for the Landmark, 7 of the 8 teams lose with USMM having their game postponed.

I'm catching up on the board and just noticed this... but not sure where you got your numbers as Susquehanna didn't even play on the 26th.

My mistake must've been a little to anxious to post that night. So 6 of 8 still not a good night. Early on here it doesn't look good for many of the Landmark teams aside from Catholic and your Crusaders. Scranton has been kind of dissapointing here early on with their 2 losses but the same thing seems to happen often here as other posters have alluded to. Big game for SU vs. Misericordia tonight who just beat Scranton recently and will be a good measuring stick for SU against a quality opponent.

[BCannon]

Looks like SU lost 67-60. Didn't start Cosgrove or Majors and Zac Smith didnt even score? Is Smith Hurt? Surprised that Majors and Cosgrove weren't starters especially after the break out game for Cosgrove. Looks like TO's killed SU and they got beat pretty good on the glass which looks more like a product of not getting the offensive rebounds they usually do. Baumunk looks like he had his way after SU shut him down in the first game of the season.