MBB: Landmark Conference

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh · March 02, 2009, 06:15:01 PM

TheGrove - I think I am going to go with D3Voice... since that makes a lot of sense for a lot of reasons!!! But thanks for some great ideas!

susiddad · March 02, 2009, 06:31:08 PM

Thanks Dave. I would agree. The top 4 can compete in the top leagues in the country (not neccessarily win, but fair well, I believe) The bottom four right now (Juniata has been good) are tough to watch. There is talent level drop that is significant.

If Catholic wins the conference tourney, they would have gotten in.

I was just starting rumors. I am sure Matt knew I was kidding around. It has been a rough day.

That being said, a tourney team needs to find a way to win that last game.

We bring back some great kids and talent next year albeit lose a lot of scoring and leadership, but I don't see a dropoff like Catholic had two years ago.

SUhoops · March 02, 2009, 07:02:01 PM

i disagree. if catholics games were in region...those 12 extra wins would have put SU's OWP above .500, clearly better than maryvilles. this would have given SU the advantage in 2/3 of the criteria...granting a bid i believe. so, this being said, and the numbers being calculated, clearly SU was hurt by catholics large number of out of region games (wins).

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh · March 02, 2009, 07:49:23 PM

SUhoops - you are taking a giant leap assuming that if CUA had played the other seven games in region, they would have won every one of thos games. They didn't even win the seven out-of-region games they played. Why would you assume they would have won all the in-region ones. Heck, they lost to Haverford in-region, proving that making your arguement based on CUA playing 12 regional games and winning them all is off-base.

This season, CUA played 11 non-conference games with seven games out-of-region. If they had made all 11 games in-region and won them all and assuming they would have still gone 8-6 in the conference... CUA would have been 19-6 in region and probably would have been in the tournament over Susquehanna. Thus, again eliminating Susquehanna from the equation, again!

Also, you never know who CUA would have chosen for in-region. If they pick fluff schools then while Susquehanna's OWP would have been better with CUA's impressive record, Susquehanna's OOWP would have been lower to compensate for CUA's over-inflated record.

Picking on CUA's record as a reason Susquehanna is out of the tournament... is baseless and a reach. Seven regional losses, especially to teams like Misericordia and Kings don't help.

susiddad - I wouldn't say the top four in this league can complete in the top leagues in the country. I just don't see it, sorry. I think they are good and can complete in this region and against much of the Atlantic, East, and South regions... but I think they would be over-matched in the Midwest and much of the West. They would also be over-matched against teams from the Northeast. I would put the top four in this league in the top half of the nation, but not with the top leagues.

That being said, I think the bottom side of the conference, while not great, is better than the bottom half of a LOT of conferences. I think this conference is competative and the bottom makes it that way. If the bottom was that bad, then the top of the conference would do better than losing four or five games a season.

NEPAFAN · March 02, 2009, 08:08:13 PM

Quote from: Dave "d-mac" McHugh on March 02, 2009, 07:49:23 PM
I would put the top four in this league in the top half of the nation, but not with the top leagues.

Dave,

Not sure I understand what you mean here.

lefty2 · March 02, 2009, 08:14:24 PM

Quote from: Dave "d-mac" McHugh on March 02, 2009, 07:49:23 PM
Seven regional losses, especially to teams like Misericordia and Kings don't help.

D-Mac,

I just took back the +1 that I had given you for an earlier post.

FYI, Scranton got in despite a loss to a team like Misericordia. Susquehanna was actually 1-1 against Misericordia.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh · March 02, 2009, 08:26:42 PM

lefty2 - Scranton also beat Susquehanna two out of three times. Flip that around and we are talking about why Scranton isn't in the tourney and why Susquehanna is. Scranton would have had 7 in-region losses and Susquehanna 6. Losing to Misericordia (11-14) remains a bad loss... no matter who lost to them.

NEPAFAN - sorry... what I am trying to say is that the top four teams in this conference are in the top half of Division III teams, but I don't think they can compete with the top leagues.

susiddad · March 02, 2009, 10:01:11 PM

D-Money you are an awesome poster. No debating that. I have not seen a lot of basketball in the west or midwest so I can't say for sure, but as far as the northeast, I am pretty confident Scranton SU and Catholic can compete in all leagues. Not necessarily win them, but not be bottom of the barrell. If all 3 were in the UAA that would not be show as poorly as you suggest in my opinion.

Matt Letourneau · March 02, 2009, 10:22:04 PM

I'm getting a kick out of this...its Catholic's fault that Susquehanna isn't in the tourney? (I KNOW that all but one of you don't believe that...but to the one that does...)

How about beating Catholic twice instead of splitting with them...that might have helped, no?

I realize there's apparently a lot of dislike for Catholic on here...why, I don't know, I guess when you have had a lot of success it makes you a target...but this particular line of discussion is a little ridiculous--as D-Mac has shown.

As for next year--well, first of all, lets give Scranton's its due here and let them dominate the conversation until their season is actually over. But I really have not taken the time to go over everyone's roster. Off the top of my head, I think MM is going to be very strong. I do think next year Catholic has a great chance to put everything together. They are missing a few pieces right now but Steve Howes is a good recruiter. We'll see.

Pat Coleman · March 03, 2009, 12:20:15 AM

Just for kicks, I ran the numbers.

Suquehanna as it went into the tournament selection process:
257 Susquehanna 16-7 .696 0.485 0.489

Susquehanna's numbers if all if Catholic's games were in-region:
253 Susquehanna 16-7 .696 0.487 0.490

You should look in the mirror instead of pointing fingers.

cuabigdog · March 03, 2009, 06:25:00 AM

Catholic U Men's basketball team :

2009 ECAC Division III South Men's Basketball Championship

First Round - Wednesday, March 4

No. 7 Grove City (12-12) at No. 2 Catholic (17-9), 7:30 p.m.

NEPAFAN · March 03, 2009, 08:53:26 AM

Quote from: Matt Letourneau on March 02, 2009, 10:22:04 PM

I realize there's apparently a lot of dislike for Catholic on here...why, I don't know, I guess when you have had a lot of success it makes you a target...but this particular line of discussion is a little ridiculous--as D-Mac has shown.

Your cheerleading for Banzhaf has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.

As far as UAA vs. Landmark......

Catholic (#4 Landmark) vs. Carnegie Mellon (#3 UAA) had CM winning by 5 early in the year. I think Scranton (#1 Landmark) vs. Brandeis (#2 UAA) on Neutral court should be a real interesting game.

TheGrove · March 03, 2009, 10:23:11 AM

Quote from: Matt Letourneau on March 02, 2009, 10:22:04 PM

I realize there's apparently a lot of dislike for Catholic on here...why, I don't know, I guess when you have had a lot of success it makes you a target...but this particular line of discussion is a little ridiculous--as D-Mac has shown.

I spent four years at Marymount, that's why I don't like Catholic.

(Just kidding, Matt - I actually have no problem with Catholic anymore... though I did hate 'em in my MU days!)

I'm glad to see more Crusader faithful here, but do y'all gotta be so negative???

susiddad · March 03, 2009, 10:31:31 AM

Grove City at 12-12 seems like a Maryville opponent that played them 4 times.
I believe the biggest game on the schedule for SU that could've made the difference (aside from title game) was Franklin and Marshall early. If we had won that game, I think we might have gotten the edge.

Both of these games should answer my questions about the top of our league competing in the top conferences.

NEPAFAN · March 03, 2009, 11:04:31 AM

The 2008-2009 all-Landmark Conference teams in the sport of men's basketball are as follow:
1st-Team
Pos-Name Class Hometown(High School)
G-Zach Ashworth, Scranton So. Doylestown, Pa. (Central Bucks West)

F-Jason Banzhaf, Catholic So. Livingston, N.J. (Seton Hall Prep.)

G-Tom Izzo, USMMA So. Bridgeport, W.V. (Bridgeport)

F-Joel Patch, Susquehanna Sr. Conklin, N.Y(Susquehanna Valley)

G-Ryan FitzPatrick, Scranton Sr. Berwyn, Pa. (Conestoga)

G-Spenser Spencer, Susquehanna Fr. Seattle, Wash. (Lakeside)

2nd-Team
Pos-Name Class Hometown (High School)
F-Paul Biagioli, Scranton Sr. Waverly, Pa. (Abington Heights)

G-Jeff Berkey, Juniata Jr. Stoystown, Pa. (Shanksville-Stonycreek)

G-Darrin Boswell II, Goucher Sr. Nottingham, Md. (Joppatowne)

F-Matt Hueber, USMMA So. Alexandria, Va. (Gonzaga College)

G-Ryan Samuel, USMMA Jr. Cedar Hill, Texas (Cedar Hill)

G-Maurice Young, Moravian So. Philadelphia, Pa. (Chestnut Hill Academy)

Player of the Year: Joel Patch, Susquehanna
Defensive Player of the Year: Bryan Majors, Susquehanna
Rookie of the Year: Spenser Spencer, Susquehanna
Coaching Staff of the Year: Susquehanna University (Head Coach, Frank Marcinek)