MBB: Landmark Conference

Matt Letourneau · November 24, 2009, 11:09:54 PM

CUA 70 Haverford 37

I'll share some thoughts on the game/Cardinals tomorrow.

NEPAFAN · November 25, 2009, 12:25:59 PM

Scranton 67 Misericordia 50

Scranton seems to have a short bench due to injuries. No Luke Hawk, or Dan O'connell, and a few others were missing. Not sure when they will return.

Recruiting question. I see Susquehanna and a few other schools (Drew, Catholic?) have landed a few prep kids. How common is that at the D3 level? Susquehanna actually has a freshman from St. Thomas More, which is a pretty good prep school in Connecticut. What makes a prep kid choose D3?

Enjoy and have a safe Holiday!

hoopit123 · November 25, 2009, 05:21:46 PM

that's a good question to ponder... but i guess the best response i can gather is that despite being in a prep school, not everyone gets D-1 looks. spenser spencer, prep school, had no big time looks afterward. harvey pannell (from st thomas more) must be the same scenario. they were likely role players on their prep school teams, overshadowed by the big guns. however, i feel they probably have an advantage over other players that come from public schools just from playing against such caliber players in practice everyday while in prep school and those on other teams in games. we all know how good spenser spencer was as a freshman--needed no time to adjust. now Pannell goes out, as a freshman, and is the MVP (over spencer!!) of their opening tourney. obviously did not need any time to adjust.

another possible scenario is that prep kids that go d-3 do not have well-rounded games. maybe they are great scorers, but too small to defend anyone or score on d-1 sized athletes. perhaps he doesn't have a jumpshot, but can go by any defender and vice versa. therefore, d1 coaches might think it is a liability to have to take the time to teach this player the other half of their game that is missing--maybe he just doesnt and never will have it.

yet others im sure just fall off the radar because they are overshadowed by the studs at their prep school.

whatever the reason, i think it is safe to say that prep players that come to the d3 level certainly have an advantage and are more prepared to be impact players as freshmen--again, spencer and now Pannell as examples.

saratoga · November 27, 2009, 03:31:07 PM

NEPA: Generally good points made by Hoopit. Prep schools generally serve two purposes, to give an otherwise decent student the opportunity to improve themselves academically so they can then meet the requirements of certain schools they may be interested in attending & secondly, to provide another year of growth academically, socially & athletically so that they are much better prepaired to meet the challenges that lie ahead. Some kids attend that never played a sport in their life it's just that they would not meet the entrance requirements of say Colgate if they didn't get that extra year of prep school to demonstrate they do have the ability to be successful in that envirnment.
As hoopit further adds...others attend to gain the extra years growth in a number of areas & hope they can substancially improve their skills to a point where the chance to play at the highest level is offered. Should the Holy Grail of DI not be in the cards...many of these kids then filter down to DII & DIII. The down side to this are the sometimes fairly loud whispers of player x being given a chance to play at a college that otherwise would have never even considered him right out of high school.
Did the prep school do their job & prepair the student for what lies ahead or is the prep school just a fast track through the admissions process? I guess only the student-athlete, prep school & current school can honestly answer that one.
Nice to see the Royals bounce back in their game Tues. vs. Miseri. Good luck to them this weekend at the UofR tournement.

ronk · November 29, 2009, 12:06:35 PM

The Royals' game today vs Rochester @3 should be videocast. Link via Rochester men's bball web page.

NEPAFAN · November 30, 2009, 08:53:26 AM

Quote from: hoopit123 on November 25, 2009, 05:21:46 PM
that's a good question to ponder... but i guess the best response i can gather is that despite being in a prep school, not everyone gets D-1 looks. spenser spencer, prep school, had no big time looks afterward. harvey pannell (from st thomas more) must be the same scenario. they were likely role players on their prep school teams, overshadowed by the big guns. however, i feel they probably have an advantage over other players that come from public schools just from playing against such caliber players in practice everyday while in prep school and those on other teams in games. we all know how good spenser spencer was as a freshman--needed no time to adjust. now Pannell goes out, as a freshman, and is the MVP (over spencer!!) of their opening tourney. obviously did not need any time to adjust.

another possible scenario is that prep kids that go d-3 do not have well-rounded games. maybe they are great scorers, but too small to defend anyone or score on d-1 sized athletes. perhaps he doesn't have a jumpshot, but can go by any defender and vice versa. therefore, d1 coaches might think it is a liability to have to take the time to teach this player the other half of their game that is missing--maybe he just doesnt and never will have it.

yet others im sure just fall off the radar because they are overshadowed by the studs at their prep school.

whatever the reason, i think it is safe to say that prep players that come to the d3 level certainly have an advantage and are more prepared to be impact players as freshmen--again, spencer and now Pannell as examples.

Hoopit/Saratoga,

Thanks for the information. I had no idea that Spenser Specner was a prep kid. Isn't he from Washington State as well? Weird recruit for SU. Anyway I guess I always thought itf a kid is going to do an extra year at prep school it is to get himself a look from a D-1 or D-2 school, although I do remember a few kids putting in some time at Scranton from St. Thomas Moore. I don't think either of them lasted more than a year if my memory serves me.

Scranton needs some scoring currently only Londo, Ashworth and the freshman Farrell are able to put the ball in the net!

saratoga · November 30, 2009, 10:59:09 PM

NEPA: The grim reality for Scranton the past 5-6 years is if the team they are playing is of lesser talent...they have a shot. Should the team be of equal talent, it's about 50/50 & should the team have more talent, they have a success rate probably in the low teens. Personally, I can't remember a non-conference game vs. a tough opponent that they've stayed with in quite some time.
Seems whenever they play a legitimate squad they are killed on the boards which then equates to far too many second chance shots, they have a greater amount of turnovers, their bench gets outscored by huge amounts & their points in the paint are minimal yet points given up on the blocks is pretty significant. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to detect where the weaknesses lie & what one needs to do to exploit them. Then again, this has been the same tune here for how long now?

NEPAFAN · December 01, 2009, 07:37:25 PM

Selective memory?!!! Scranton is two time conference champs don't think they didn't have some quality wins in that time. However without sounding like a broken record looking at this roster I cant believe Danzig hasn't brought in more forwards I think that is the biggest issue in royalland.

tpm4286 · December 01, 2009, 09:36:54 PM

WOW Goucher Gophers lose tonight to Maryland Bible 82-79. This is Bad.

saratoga · December 01, 2009, 11:19:00 PM

NEPA: Naturally Scranton has had big wins in recent years...just can't recall that many non-conference big wins. They've held their own for the most part while in the MAC Freedom & as you've stated, they have now captured the first two Landmark championships. However, it is once they step out of this conference cubby & into the national scene that things have gone south & fairly quickly.
Last year, big win at the end of the season to knock Catholic out & then the same vs. Susquehanna. Then comes the first round NCAA game vs. Brandeis & a sound beating.
Two years ago the same thing...decent finish down the stretch in the Landmark...make the NCAA's & blown out by Elms in the first round.
Four years ago, defeat Wilkes in a very big game at the Long Center to win the MAC Freedom...first round game in NCAA's vs. Wm. Patterson...you guessed it, blown out in the first round.
Five years ago, no NCAA bid but they do take an ECAC offer for the first time in about 50 years. Games held at F&M where the Royals defeat Alvernia in the Friday game then get smoked by F&M in the Sat. championship.
I really think you almost have to go back 6 years to find the last game out of conference that the Royals won that had any significance. To me, that game was the victory over Ursinus that allowed them to advance to the Sweet 16. That group were the seniors of Coach Bessoir's last recruiting class...Dan Loftus, Derik Elphick, Jeff Kane, Bryan Smith & sophmores Brian O'Donnell & Ryan Rogan. It was a great game that went back & forth with the Royals holding on for a two point win in the SECOND round of the NCAA tournament. Since then there have been some nice wins during the season that have led to some tournament berths, which in the scheme of things is a good thing. It's just that those victories in the really big games, the ones that seperate the men from the boys have been very few & very far between. It would be nice to see the men outdraw the women once again, win a few in the NCAA's & recruit kids beyond two zip codes.
I'll take a 5 point win over Goucher however, wouldn't it be nice to also be able to play with a Rochester or John Carroll? Nice that they can beat Bard but how about playing Hamilton or Ursinus again. Nice that 400 show up for a tournament championship but how about 2,000 on a Wednesday night? Nice that you get to a first round game but, how about another Sweet 16 or Elite 8 or God forbid, a Final Four?
These things were all once common place & now they seem like a distant dream. The Long Center was the place to be not so long ago, now it's more like an afterthought. Can't really say what's happened to Royal basketball other than the pieces are not there to compete nationally. I certainly hope Coach Danzig catches lightning in a bottle with some recruits & changes the current dynamic...after all, it would be nice to go out and win a few big ones...just for old times sake.

tpm4286 · December 02, 2009, 10:53:10 AM

"This was only the fourth all-time meeting between the two schools in the sport of men's basketball and it was the Eagles' first victory in the series." - WOW- could be tough in the Landmark this year for the Gophers. Hopefully they will bounce back and learn from that embarrassing loss.

One Positive is Gladden, who wasn't on team last year due to team issues or something, played well and will be an All-Conference Forward in the Landmark Conference this year if he continues. 12-12 from the field is impressive with 15 boards. He has strength, athletic and will to get to the basket with the ability to take hits and finish strong, AND 1.

saratoga · December 02, 2009, 11:29:58 AM

tpm4286: The player you described (Gladden), is exactly the type of player Scranton has not been able to bring in recently. Perhaps we can work out a trade?

tpm4286 · December 02, 2009, 11:50:30 AM

Quote from: saratoga on December 02, 2009, 11:29:58 AM
tpm4286: The player you described (Gladden), is exactly the type of player Scranton has not been able to bring in recently. Perhaps we can work out a trade?

I'm sure after last nights loss, and this afternoon practice sprints, Gladden will want a trade. HAHA

BCannon · December 02, 2009, 01:10:55 PM

Quote from: saratoga on December 02, 2009, 11:29:58 AM
tpm4286: The player you described (Gladden), is exactly the type of player Scranton has not been able to bring in recently. Perhaps we can work out a trade?

I've seen Goucher play .... I don't think Gladden is the type of player you are talking about ... he is similar to Londo if I was going to compare him to someone on the Royals height wise, not as physical and problly a little more athletic with Londos knee the way it is.

Goucher has some good individuals from what I saw in the game and the boxscores, but consistency seems to be the issue. Perry, Suggs, and Gladden are all capable of big nights.

I think there will be a lot of parody in the league this year. The preaseason coaches poll had 1. CUA 2. MM 3. Scranton 4. SU 5. JC 6. MC 7. GC 8. Drew. I think Drew will finish 6th GC 7th MC 8th and while the top 3 I think will
make the playoffs for sure I see JC and SU battling for the 4th seed.

Matt- is JB hurt or just off to a slow start by his standards?

NEPAFAN · December 02, 2009, 02:04:19 PM

Saratoga,

2 years ago Scranton knocked off Alvernia, NAIA powerhouse Walsh and Ramapo to open the season. I guess my point is that game preparation is not the issue, it is getting talent in and on the team. Nothing against the kids on the team now, but the are the hybrid slashers combo guards that are certainly one element, but what can we do to get the rest of the pieces? Not to much I suppose, but it is scary that schools like Drew are starting to stockpile some quality recruits...the Landmark might become real competitive real quick.

Also agree with you on branching out of the NEPA zip codes, Catholic seems to be successful doing this as they have brought in some kids from the New England Area. Finally, I don't buy the excuse that kids don't want to go to Scranton because it is expensive....and what Drew, Catholic, JC are cheap?