MBB: Landmark Conference

[ronk]

 It's my contention that the inaccurate NCAA in region record is what kept them out of the ratings from the 1st week. But I'll save NCAA changes for next year for later in the week after we discuss the ins and outs and wheres of today.

[LustyLarryintheToilet]

Lusty - read the Centennial board again - I don't think your "facts" stood up.

You seemed to be arguing a different point than he was.  You stated that F&M shouldn't be hosting, and he agreed with you.  His argument was that F&M deserved GMC's spot.  I have no idea if that's true or not--did I see that GMC finished higher in the regional rankings?--but it isn't the same thing as saying F&M should be hosting.

And obviously Scranton shouldn't be, though out of curiosity, what is Kean's OWP, OOWP and SOS?

youre right matt, gmc was 4 in region, fandm 5, but with fandm winning both the reg season and conf tourney (along with scranton) i think either deserve the better spot than GMC in what is honestly a tossup pod

[saratoga]

Perhaps Dave or anyone from the selection committee can answer this...why would Hartwick, with 10 losses & only a 1 hour drive up Rt. 88 to Albany & on to the NY Thruway & perhaps another 45 minutes over to Williamstown be sent to Cabrini and the Royals, who always bring a great alumni following...especially from the Philly area, be sent out to Williams?
Essentially, what sent Scranton & F&M packing while these CSAC schools either host or play pretty close to home? Thanks.

[ronk]

Yes, the 7 1/2 hour trip for me is too much. would have gone to Cabrini, Ramapo or St. Mary's. Hope it's videocast.

[mailsy]

I don't think Scranton deserved to host. But I think we can all agree that Cabrini and Gwynned Mercy are overrated.

Not by the NCAA.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

REGIONAL RANKINGS... you can not complain that Scranton should be hosting when last week they were NOT in the regional rankings... and in the final rankings they sit 9th.

By the numbers:
Team               In-Region            OWP             OOWP            SOS         Reg. Ranked
Scranton        19-5 (.792)           .452               .450              .451           2-1 (.667)
Cabrini           22-5 (.815)           .510               .493              .504           5-0 (1.000)
F&M               20-5 (.800)            .468              .452              .463            0-2 (.000)

Tell me again why Scranton or F&M should be hosting and Cabrini shouldn't?!

Again... Scranton and F&M don't have the numbers to host... Scranton is #9 in the final Regional Rankings... F&M is 5... Cabrini is 3rd.

And the NCAA committees have been trying hard to use the 500 mile rules and whatever flights are allowed to get creative on these brackets to give them more of a national feel and diversify the teams in different pods. Scranton has a chance to play different teams to prove they deserve to keep playing in the tournament. When you are that low on the rankings - you are going to be shipped to a different part of the country in this new-style of creating more balanced brackets.

[LustyLarryintheToilet]

in all these cases, its a matter of respect.  You have cabrini, scranton and fandm.  All 3 mid atlantic teams.  all 3 teams won their conference regular season titles and tournament titles.  the only one of the 3 teams that beat a regionally ranked out of conference team is Scranton, who did it twice.  However, Cabrini gets a plush two games at home that they should win, while Scranton and F&M are shipped hundreds of miles away to be fed to the proverbial wolves (especiially in scranton's case).

just at a quick glance, its the ramapo pod thats got me the most frustrated.  J&W should be in Williamstown and GM should be hiking down to the beach. 

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

God forbid we have a more national tournament instead of stuck in regional tournaments leading to a very unbalanced tournament and Final Four... and "respect" is not one of the criteria (tongue-in-cheek). The OWP, OOWP, and SOS numbers say a lot about teams and their records. Not only did Cabrini finished with a better in-region winning percentage... they did it with a stronger OWP, OOWP, and SOS to boot. Scranton and F&M both had all of their numbers below .500.

[ronk]

  In response to a suggestion(probably Saratoga's) on hoopsville that Hartwick would have been a better choice for Williams' regional  than Scranton, Pat Coleman said that he'd rather play Scranton's opponent, Becker, than Hartwick's(Purchase) in the 1st round.

[LustyLarryintheToilet]

A true national tournament would mix match west and east, which this does not.  as it stands, you have one bracket of 4 West (meaning west of ohio) pods.  one bracket with 4 distinct pods (a west, two midwest/south, and a mid atlantic), then you have a mixmash of northeast, mid atlantic, south teams in various pods.  The way you make it a national tournament is to regionalize the pods, then mix and match pods for the regional semis/finals.  The reason being to enhance fan involvement early and have it build for the second weekend.

There is a great discrepancy in what cabrini got and what scranton/fandm got, which is our point.  A greater discrepancy than those numbers you posted, especially since we're dealing with the small sample size of a 25 game season. 

[NEPAFAN]

I don't think Scranton deserved to host. But I think we can all agree that Cabrini and Gwynned Mercy are overrated.

Not by the NCAA.

Actually yes that is exactly what I am proposing.

[Pat Coleman]

I actually don't think a 25-game sample size is small. That's pretty fair.

[saratoga]

My issue isn't so much about Scranton not having a host site as it is where the hell teams not hosting have been placed.
Forget national diversity for the moment because that becomes pretty subjective & real fast.
Would it not have made more sense not only for the teams playing but the fans following the schools to have Scranton at Cabrini & F&M at Ramapo or even the other way around?
Scranton & F&M fans follow their teams & would have really helped the gate at either of these host sites. However, instead of that you now bring down Hartwick & their 6 fans & GM heads to Jersey based upon what?
As far as your comment Dave that Scranton has a chance to "prove" they belong...perhaps I'm missing something but I thought when you win your league's automatic qualifier that would take care of that concern by the powers that be.
Bottom line, a team with 10 losses less than 2 hours from one of the top teams in the country should have their butts sent in that direction. Beyond that, F&M deserves to be playing closer to home & GM should be booking a tour of Colonial Williamsburg.
I really could care less what first round match ups look like on paper, the NCAA should also try & consider if it makes any sense to be sending teams 4 & 5 hours away when there are excellent fits within a few hours.

[Pat Coleman]

Forget national diversity for the moment because that becomes pretty subjective & real fast.

Except no, this is the goal, so you can't just throw it out.

[LustyLarryintheToilet]

pat, its a moot point.  "national diversity" is not something the committe really took into account.  F&M isnt playing in Wisconsin.  Scranton isnt going to Texas.  Saratoga makes a lot of great points and is 100% right.  In lancaster over the weekend, F&M fans were ready to go to Jersey, southern maryland or even long island again, but virginia beach is asking too much for a team that actually won something.

and my point about sample size is this, if you play one or two games against crummy teams, thats going to skew the numbers.  F&M mightve had a weak SOS #, but that doesnt mean they didnt "play" anyone.  And its crazier for Scranton which actually has those regionally ranked wins