MBB: Landmark Conference

[LustyLarryintheToilet]

pat, what are you talking about?  by saying "you" earned you are equating fans with players, as if we are feeling sorry for ourselves.  Scranton and F&M and other landmark fans are smarter than that.  When we're discussing these brackets and feel our teams got hosed, we're basing it rationally and are upset not for ourselves, but for the players and students and coaches for whom we cheer. 

if you honestly feel F&M deserves what they got, then i hope they dont show up in ur top 25 this week, but oh wait theyve been there all season.  It is hypocritical for a site to say F&M is a top 20 team all year then not defend that ranking.  As for Scranton, i've said for weeks that they were underrated and their h2h victory over Cabrini says a lot. 

[Pat Coleman]

Larry:

By saying "you" I'm using the same "you" that "you" used.

Not sure it's worth talking to you anymore.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

pat, what are you talking about?  by saying "you" earned you are equating fans with players, as if we are feeling sorry for ourselves.  Scranton and F&M and other landmark fans are smarter than that.  When we're discussing these brackets and feel our teams got hosed, we're basing it rationally and are upset not for ourselves, but for the players and students and coaches for whom we cheer. 

if you honestly feel F&M deserves what they got, then i hope they dont show up in ur top 25 this week, but oh wait theyve been there all season.  It is hypocritical for a site to say F&M is a top 20 team all year then not defend that ranking.  As for Scranton, i've said for weeks that they were underrated and their h2h victory over Cabrini says a lot. 

F&M has been off my ballot for a few weeks now... and it could have been longer if I didn't have other teams I removed first. F&M was between 20-25 since the beginning of January for me and I never felt that comfortable leaving them them... though I didn't have a lot of other teams at the time to put in their place.
While others may still have them on their ballots... that isn't the case for me.

[LustyLarryintheToilet]

by my measure, Scranton and cabrini each played 8 games out of conference.  cancel their game out, and you have 14 teams.  3 of the 4 best teams were played by scranton (etown, kean, and miseri).  Cabrini played york and a bunch of .500 teams.  by only using math, the committee is saying dont play anyone good!  play a bunch of .500 teams and hope you have a good conference sos.  Scranton is penalized because it canceled out games vs top teams with games vs bottom feeders.  That's not good for basketball.

and not to stroke off the ODAC here, but its not like the CSAC was the ODAc.  we all knew the ODAC, by virtue of its strength, was a 2 bid league.  there was tons of debate about whether the csac would get a second team in.  pretty tough to respect the numbers cabrini wracked up in there

[Wolfpac]

Larry just for your info not to get you fired up......being objective here the Cavs played Scranton after playing a weak rosemont team, then it was the last game before Xmas vacation and driving up there I can tell you still early in the season they were not playing close to what they are playing now.  As well as Lemons being sick and their big guy injured ( not close to 100%) things would surely be different if they played later in the season.  Scranton is a great team with history no doubt, but please put things into perspective, I was actually hoping to go to Scranton or for Scranton to come down to Cabrini, did not think NJAC team but records put em down here.   

Wish we could get F&M on the schedule next year home or away so we had more to talk about.  In the 90's F&M was great to watch, they always seem to be in it.  I am not taking anything away from them, just making the point Cavs are not that bad.  So what if you are not hosting be proud of your team and do some damage in the tournament, do you not feel better if you go on the road and win, makes it more sweet for you guys.   I understand where you are coming from but chill and enjoy.   

[Matt Letourneau]

For those that are interested, Catholic is once again headed to the ECAC's, this time as the third seed in the South.   They'll be playing old friend Gallaudet Wednesday night at CUA.

[LustyLarryintheToilet]

yeah wolfy, i'm not trying to discredit the Cavs season.  during the pool c discussion i was even impressed with the fact that they were winning their tough conf games.  Frankly i expected F&M to be at Cabrini in Round 1/2 which wouldve been great fun (easy travel and a heck of an environment).  The fun of this is you could make legitimate arguments for any of the three teams, which is why the dichotomy between what Cabrini got and what Scranton/FM got is puzzling and troubling.  

This isnt the right board for the F&M should be hosting their 4 team pod argument, so lets just assume that F&M was never going to host a pod.  The only 3 logical places for them would be Cabrini, Ramapo or back to St Marys.  Once RMC was shipped to SMC, there was no way they were creating a death pod, so you are left with Cabrini or Ramapo.  Instead, their reward is a 300 mile trip.

Scranton is a great hosting site because of its central location, and for that reason weeks ago i thought theyd host (mistake in regional numbers aside).  but lets say they werent going to host, the only logical sites for them are Cabrini, Ramapo, ithaca or even oswego.  i could mix and match several teams out of any of those pods and come up with a more appropriate option for scranton than williamstown.  

[NEPAFAN]

  In response to a suggestion(probably Saratoga's) on hoopsville that Hartwick would have been a better choice for Williams' regional  than Scranton, Pat Coleman said that he'd rather play Scranton's opponent, Becker, than Hartwick's(Purchase) in the 1st round.

Ronk,


Did he say why? Becker has 400 steals for the season, I am having flashbacks to Elms a few years ago.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Because Purchase is playing extremely well right now and closed the season on a tear. Becker stumbled in the conference finals and seemed a bit more mortal as the season closed.

As for steals stats... that is subjective... depends if the SID is one that credits every turnover with a steal (I have seen it happen) or one that is somewhat loose with his interpretation.

[cold_case]

Because Purchase is playing extremely well right now and closed the season on a tear. Becker stumbled in the conference finals and seemed a bit more mortal as the season closed.
As for steals stats... that is subjective... depends if the SID is one that credits every turnover with a steal (I have seen it happen) or one that is somewhat loose with his interpretation.

Now you're going to jack up Purchase and drive down Scranton's opponent?
No wonder all the SID's I talk with think you're ignorant.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

cold_case - are you kidding me? I have been in this business and worked in an SID office during my 16 years... I am not doing ANYTHING to downgrade Scranton. I am simply saying what I believed Pat was saying about Purchase. I was also stating my opinion about steals... they tend to be a stat that is given too freely away or not freely enough because there is no hard and fast rule on how to award them like you do with baskets and rebounds. Assists would be another similar stat to steals.

And to your comment about me being ignorant by other SID's standards... first reaction is I don't care. Second reaction is I doubt you have talked to that many. And third reaction is I would be surprised if that was factual. I work with a number of SIDs in this area and around the country and we have great working relationships. So unless you feel like proving your point... baseless attempts to defame my reputation and character is low even by your standards.

[NEPAFAN]

For those that are interested, Catholic is once again headed to the ECAC's, this time as the third seed in the South.   They'll be playing old friend Gallaudet Wednesday night at CUA.

Is this a joke? Can you imagine if Scranton was playing Marywood in the ECAC's after losing to Catholic once again? We would be hanging Danzig in effigy.

[Matt Letourneau]

For those that are interested, Catholic is once again headed to the ECAC's, this time as the third seed in the South.   They'll be playing old friend Gallaudet Wednesday night at CUA.

Is this a joke? Can you imagine if Scranton was playing Marywood in the ECAC's after losing to Catholic once again? We would be hanging Danzig in effigy.

My general attitude is that there's no downside to playing as long as you can play.  Catholic's going to need some big contributions from younger players next year, so why not continue their development?

[cold_case]

cold_case - are you kidding me? I have been in this business and worked in an SID office during my 16 years... I am not doing ANYTHING to downgrade Scranton. I am simply saying what I believed Pat was saying about Purchase. I was also stating my opinion about steals... they tend to be a stat that is given too freely away or not freely enough because there is no hard and fast rule on how to award them like you do with baskets and rebounds. Assists would be another similar stat to steals.

And to your comment about me being ignorant by other SID's standards... first reaction is I don't care. Second reaction is I doubt you have talked to that many. And third reaction is I would be surprised if that was factual. I work with a number of SIDs in this area and around the country and we have great working relationships. So unless you feel like proving your point... baseless attempts to defame my reputation and character is low even by your standards.

Defame? No, you do a good enough job of that.
And, when you can justify sites and selections, I will talk about SID's. However, you can't and I won't.
First rule in journalism: NEVER, EVER REVEAL YOUR SOURCES. I NEVER HAVE AND NEVER WILL!

[saratoga]

Dmac: As Lusty has been saying & I have been saying...this is not about F&M or Scranton hosting...take that equation out of the conversation. The gripe is about erroneous, over-inflated Regional rankings now becoming the fall guy for where teams have been placed.
Even if each & every host site is correct by whatever formula you use, the placement of which teams go where & why is not being answered.
One moment we hear the Regional ranking is the Gold Standard. Fair enough...then where is Kean? For 3 weeks they were the Atlantic # 2 & now no spot for them?
Gwynedd ends up 21-6, gets crushed in their conference championship yet only has to travel a little over an hour to their site while F&M, a conference CHAMPION with a record of 22-5 gets sent packing to look for the decendents of the Lost Colony of Roanoke?
Then we have the Royals headed to Williamstown as a conference CHAMPION while Bridgewater St. with a record of 18-9 stays home in Mass. (no real diversity there). Wells College in New York with a record of 17-11 makes that always tough 1 hour trip to downtown Oswego,NY. (still not feeling the diversity for teams with lousy records), and Wittenberg at 19-8 making the trans Ohio trip to Marietta had to be a real tough call for the geography majors at the helm. However, the placement that has to have the committee shaking hands & passing out cigars is the work group that came up with Hartwick with 10 losses heading from rural Upstate New York into the extrenly diverse burbs of Philly. This has to be the placement this committee is pointing to to show that diversity can & does work!
In reality guys, there is no rhyme or reason to most of these placements & the truth of the matter is conference champs with good records are going places that will not be fan friendly for a rather loyal following while at the same time teams with average records get to play within an hour or so of campus.