MBB: Landmark Conference

[sunny]

I have also heard they will be switching the women's and men's game times on a seasonal basis. In other words, I think next season they will have the women play second... the following season the men will play second, etc.

Don't agree with that... I think there are better options (that even other conferences employ)... but there is a STRONG push that the women's teams are not getting a fair shake in the conference.

I've always found this a strange argument.  There is only one point on which it makes sense (and only in a limited capacity), and it isn't the one they are probably arguing ...

Attendance/fans - Personally, if my team typically draw smaller crowds, I'd rather have fans coming in at the END of my games with the hopes that they may catch an exciting finish and want to come to my games more often. At the very least, they are giving us more fan support when we likely need it most (the end of the game). The alternative is to come out and warm up to a gym where most of the crowd is leaving. Blech.

Warm-up time - On this point, it's the team playing second who is getting shorted (though it doesn't seem to bother them).  Playing first gives you more time.

Missed class time - Only applies to weekdays, but it has merit.  Of course, in a geographically spread out conference, a lot of teams are travelling together, so when that's the case it's the same amount of missed classes regardless of who plays first.

I honestly find it odd that the schools in the conference would want a conference rule over who plays first anyway. Do they dictate that for other sports with shared facilities? (m/w soccer and/or field hockey; m/w lacrosse) If an institution wants their women to play second some or all of the time at home, they should be able to. Put it in the hands of the host school and let them decide.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

sunny - I suspect, but I certainly do not know, that schools like Scranton whose women's program has certainly been the mainstay and the power houses in recent years. Then I can understand a program like that wanting to be the second-part of the double-header. I have also heard people claim equal opportunity for both the men's and women's teams as being the "main event" of the double-header, per se.

However, they have gone with this first-half/second-half of the season rotation now for two seasons and I think that just confuses fans and what not. I have stated to people in this conference and on these boards that something like what the UAA does where the men play second on the first night and the women play second on the second day makes more sense to me. You are being fair to all parties... and the fans know which teams will be playing at what times every weekend.

Of course if they switch to the Wednesday/Saturday schedule that has been alluded to, this gets stranger in my opinion.

Also, warm-up time is actually overrated, in my opinion. I don't see a lot of teams who actually warm-up for a full 30 minutes. Heck, I hardly see them warm-up an entire 25 minutes... so being the short-end of the stick on that being the second game is not much of a reality. I am pretty sure the men's teams, who have been playing second in most conference games in all their conferences, don't care about the warm-up time that much.

As for other shared facilities... I do not know of other situations where they switch the timings of games to be fair to everyone. From my point of view, this has been a basketball issue only. However, I can look into that more.

[gouchersid]

The Landmark does operate under a similar schedule for soccer. With the exception of USMMA which doesn't have a women's team, soccer teams in the Landmark play doubleheaders (mostly on Saturdays). Until this year, it was women first and then men, but in 2011 the men's games were played first.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Damn... the person I was going to check in with decided to post anyway!!! :-)

[NEPAFAN]

Toga,


Where were you all summer to post about Becker? I was crying in my Frosted Flakes every day over the loss. However, new season and we move on.


Bevacqua seems to be a player who could fill the void at Post. He put in 15 against Ramapo last night...

[NEPAFAN]

Scranton survived their conference opener against Moravian.


I think I lost a few years off my life....back and forth OT win for Scranton. Scranton appears to be a bit banged up.

[Bengalsrule]

As an outside observer, who keeps up with Catholic U. (we are in the their New years Tourney) I can't help but wonder why Catholic at 6-0 does not recieve at least 1 vote in D3Hoops? Im wondering  if any Landmark fans can give this SUNYAC guy some help with this?

[ronk]

  Probably because they haven't beaten anybody good; looking at their schedule, they could go undefeated and not beaten anybody good. Which team are you? - maybe their tourney final will be their best test.
  Dmac has a ballot; he can tell you why he didn't give them a 1-pt vote.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

CUA's opponents record is 17-24... and the two with winning records (Dickinson and Penn. St.-Behrend) haven't really played top notch teams either.

They are on my radar - they almost always are... but there are a LOT of undefeated teams right now... and the guru of D3hoops, Pat Coleman who is a CUA grad, hasn't even put them on his ballot.

Give it time... they have Richard Stockton coming up on the 10th (I see Stockton Wednesday night)... that will maybe tell me something. Other than that... they have a weak out of conference schedule and nothing will really be known until we hit conference action.

[CCHoopster]

CUA's opponents record is 17-24... and the two with winning records (Dickinson and Penn. St.-Behrend) haven't really played top notch teams either.

They are on my radar - they almost always are... but there are a LOT of undefeated teams right now... and the guru of D3hoops, Pat Coleman who is a CUA grad, hasn't even put them on his ballot.

Give it time... they have Richard Stockton coming up on the 10th (I see Stockton Wednesday night)... that will maybe tell me something. Other than that... they have a weak out of conference schedule and nothing will really be known until we hit conference action.

Dave- I was just wondering when the regional rankings begin.... Is it the the first week in Feb? If so, is it always the same date on the calender?

Also, how much comes into play how "hot" a team is the week or 2 leading to the rankings.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Recently they have cut the number of regional rankings released down to four per year (used to be more), so based on the timing of the end of the season, that means the first regional rankings come out near the very end of January, but usually the beginning of February. They also come out on every Wednesday in those weeks leading up with the final one coming out I think on either Selection Sunday or Match-up Monday (D3hoops monikers).

According to the 2011 Men's Championship Handbook (fs.ncaa.org/Docs/champ_handbooks/basketball/2011/11_3_mbasketball.pdf), the first date for the regional rankings will be Wednesday, February 2nd... with the 9th, 16th, and 23rd to follow.

As far as to answer how "hot" a team is... it is not part of the criteria. The entire season counts. It is something we say on Hoopsville all the time. How a team did in the first game of the season is weighed the same as they did in the last game of the season... so thus, you can't lose to a bad team in November and expect the NCAA to overlook it. This isn't Division I which puts the stupid part in about how a team has done in the last 10 games... allowing teams who were horrible early on and happen to catch fire at the right time the right to make the tournament, especially over a team that may have deserved it more if that rule wasn't in place. D3 doesn't see it that way... the entire season... all regional games count (out-of-region games count only if most of the rest of the criteria is exhausted).

If a "hot" team who has had a horrible year wants to make the tournament... they better make sure they win their conference AQ.

Hope that answers your questions.

[Bengalsrule]

  Probably because they haven't beaten anybody good; looking at their schedule, they could go undefeated and not beaten anybody good. Which team are you? - maybe their tourney final will be their best test.

Buffalo State Bengals. we're in their Holiday tourney 12/31-1/1. Hope to be in the "tourney final"! . Hopefully they wont beat "anybody good" (BENGALS ranked 14th) in their tourney.

Thanks for the info Dave 'd-mac' and ronk. Hope to talk to you again afetr Xmas!!!

[CCHoopster]

Recently they have cut the number of regional rankings released down to four per year (used to be more), so based on the timing of the end of the season, that means the first regional rankings come out near the very end of January, but usually the beginning of February. They also come out on every Wednesday in those weeks leading up with the final one coming out I think on either Selection Sunday or Match-up Monday (D3hoops monikers).

According to the 2011 Men's Championship Handbook (fs.ncaa.org/Docs/champ_handbooks/basketball/2011/11_3_mbasketball.pdf), the first date for the regional rankings will be Wednesday, February 2nd... with the 9th, 16th, and 23rd to follow.

As far as to answer how "hot" a team is... it is not part of the criteria. The entire season counts. It is something we say on Hoopsville all the time. How a team did in the first game of the season is weighed the same as they did in the last game of the season... so thus, you can't lose to a bad team in November and expect the NCAA to overlook it. This isn't Division I which puts the stupid part in about how a team has done in the last 10 games... allowing teams who were horrible early on and happen to catch fire at the right time the right to make the tournament, especially over a team that may have deserved it more if that rule wasn't in place. D3 doesn't see it that way... the entire season... all regional games count (out-of-region games count only if most of the rest of the criteria is exhausted).

If a "hot" team who has had a horrible year wants to make the tournament... they better make sure they win their conference AQ.

Hope that answers your questions.

Don't think you could answer my question better! Thanks much Dave, as usual great job

[Bengalsrule]

Dave- I was just wondering when the regional rankings begin.... Is it the the first week in Feb? If so, is it always the same date on the calender?

Also, how much comes into play how "hot" a team is the week or 2 leading to the rankings.

d-mac/CCHoopster. Is knightslappys formula identical (see below) to the 1 that the NCAA uses for regional rankings??

http://tomaroonandgold.blogspot.com/2011/12/reginal-rankings-1252011.html

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

He is using a numerical calculation... and basing it on numerical details. The formula has certainly been close at times to predicting teams getting in, but it doesn't account for everything, especially if a number of teams from different regions are being considered for the final couple of spots in the tournament. That's when the committee is looking at all the criteria and numbers and such and discussing who deserves to be in it... in other words it becomes a human determination with a human element.

However, his formula is helpful it letting you know what teams will be considered and where teams are positioned, however, early on the numbers are a bit "off" since there are not a lot of games to base the numbers on.

For those in the know, he picked up this formula work after a long-time poster died unexpectedly after a season. His numbers were very solid and he has been missed ever since his passing.. but knightslappys has picked up the work and constantly tweaks his formula to match what the NCAA considers and I think does a very good job.