MBB: Landmark Conference

[cold_case]

Where's Gordon going to be? Middlebury with Cabrini or F&M?

If he has a choice, F&M.

Why?

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Where's Gordon going to be? Middlebury with Cabrini or F&M?

If he has a choice, F&M.

Why?

I saw him at Cabrini.  We talked briefly.  During that time he mentioned he lived nearby and that he wanted to see F&M play.

Judging from those two facts, I guessed Lancaster would be closer to his home and would feature a number of the top teams in the country.

It is just a guess, but an educated one in some sense.

[augie]

Well heading up to Middlebury this weekend but staying in South Burlington.Called the Courtyard Marriott Sunday at 2:30 just to find out that they are sold out.So as a Marriott rewards cardholder i called up the corporate office today and told them what just happened,so he had me on the line for about ten minutes  while he talked to the front desk supervisor,he then came back on the line and told me what happened the NCAA called them a couple days before and asked if they could accommodate for so many people and they said yes.So after driving 6 hrs to the game i have to drive another hour to my hotel i guess this is how much the NCAA really cares about the fans.ROYAL FAITHFUL

[onetinsoldier]

Bucket,  this is always going to happen when a host loses round 1.  I understand all the issues with neutral site hosting and the money lost.  I also understand that the idea of playing a road game in front of 2000 people (potentially) is a thrill for the student athlete.  But so is playing in front of 1-2k fans at a neutral site in salem, which you potentially take away.  I just have trouble wrapping my hands around the idea that, because of the ripple effect, a womens game in amherst could conceivably cost Cabrini a final four trip. 

Of course, the other answer would be to ditch the NCAA geographical diversity program and clump regions together irregardless of strength.  As bad as that might sound, is it really worse than a system where the No. 2 MA team hosts over the #1 NE team, while the #1 MA team travels to the #2 NE team?

As I've stated before, I  understand Cabrini's disappointment. I really do. But Cabrini was never a clear cut favorite to host. It was always a toss up between Middlebury and Cabrini. It could have gone either way. It's not like last year when Midd had to travel to Rochester because of the 500-mile rule. And again, a reminder about what happened last year: Midd went to Rochester, won two games, and went on to Salem. Cabrini can do the same thing this weekend. Having to travel isn't going to "cost" them anything other than gas money and hotels.

If Midd was traveling to PA this weekend, I would feel bad for the Middlebury community, I would personally miss experiencing another electric moment in Pepin, but I would also know that the players, the team, would be fine. If they were to be considered the best team among the four, then they would go and win, regardless of where the games are played. And I'm sure the Cabrini team, if not its fans, will come up to Vermont with the same attitude.

I think the difference between 2011 and 2012 is that last year, there was no question who the better and more deserving team was between Middlebury and Rochester.  This year, its virtually a coin flip.  And as we see countless times in all levels of college basketball, sometimes homefield advantage is the deciding factor.

It's not a coin flip - only by the metrics the NCAA uses to choose and rank teams.  I'm not sure the decision on hosting is limited to those factors.

Hoopsfan, by saying coinflip i was trying to be polite and not start a meaningless argument.  If you are using the last regional rankings, cabrini as a number 1 earned the right to host with no other #1 in their region.  Should they be hosting? i dont know.  But Cabrini is likely in a far tougher spot than Middlebury was a year ago, which was my point

[saratoga]

First of all, a pretty magical weekend for the Royals.
Brought back from the dead, down 18 with 8 minutes left on Friday & then playing one of their best all around games this season on Sat.
Three's raining down, drives to the basket, offensive rebounds, short jumpers & free throws all coming together at just the right time. I know the Royals don't get a lot of respect this time of year but, those kids have certainly hung together &  opened some eyes...mine included with the perseverance they've shown down the stretch.
To me, Coach Danzig didn't finally get the monkey off his back with these wins...it was more like a 4oo lb. gorilla.
I think we all knew coming in that the NCAA wisdom patrol was not letting the Middle Atlantic get two Sectionals.
In reality, it is a ripoff for Cabrini because their fate, as someone stated was determined by the Amherst women & not what they accomplished all season on the court.
If the Amherst women were not so good this year, I think it's fair to say Cabrini may be hosting & F&M would would be paying homage to Emily Dickinson.
Another unfortunate consequence is the fact that there appear to be all of perhaps 4 hotels/motels in Middville.
To top that off, the best hotel up there...the 40 room, 2 1/2 star Marriott Courtyard has been bought up by the NCAA so fans are forced to book rooms in Moose Junction, Trout Run & Sasquatch Hills.
NCAA selection members...there is still time. Send the host site to Scranton. Two great hotels within a 5 minute walk to the UofS, another 10 within 15 minutes, a St. Patricks parade on Sat., free beer for everyone all weekend, at least 3,000 in the stands, temps. in the low 60's & no chance of driving into a Monster Quest action hero on the way to the game & a BMW given away at halftime of Friday's game.
Oh well, off to Vermont it is.

[gordonmann]

Where's Gordon going to be? Middlebury with Cabrini or F&M?

If he has a choice, F&M.

Why?

My location is still undecided while we figure out our coverage options. Franklin and Marshall is probably the best bet for the reasons Hoops Fan mentioned.  It's 1.5 hours from home. I've seen F&M once this season, but would enjoy seeing Amherst, CSI and MIT in person, particularly for that Friday night game. The atmosphere at Mayser should be phenomenal.

Honestly I'd enjoy any of the men's regionals, including the Middlebury one, but I have to keep my travel somewhat limited for family reasons.

I also might end up going to UMW for the women's regional.  We'll see.

[cold_case]

I saw him at Cabrini.  We talked briefly.  During that time he mentioned he lived nearby and that he wanted to see F&M play.
Judging from those two facts, I guessed Lancaster would be closer to his home and would feature a number of the top teams in the country.
It is just a guess, but an educated one in some sense.

That's too bad. Cabrini and Scranton fans have to travel -- AGAIN. Good enough for them, good enough for him ...

[gordonmann]

Unfortunately not good enough for my family situation though. 

Honestly, I prefer to travel this time of year.  I really look forward to my one trip per year to somewhere I'e never been.  I've gone to Decorah, Iowa; Crestview Hills, Kentucky; and Bloomington, Illinois on these weekends.  This is the weekend to do it and Middlebury would qualify (though I went there as a college student).  Plus I could probably convince Dean Corwin to give me some air time at the half.

Just not going to happen this weekend, I'm afraid.  Not because I don't want it to.

[cold_case]

Gordon, ever been to Scranton?

[Bucket]

In reality, it is a ripoff for Cabrini because their fate, as someone stated was determined by the Amherst women & not what they accomplished all season on the court.

Teams determine their own fate. Middlebury did last year when they went to Rochester because of an NCAA rule and decision, won two games, and advanced to Salem. Hosting guarantees nothing.

And again, why is Cabrini so much more deserving than Middlebury to host? If we are simply talking about what a team accomplished during a season as criteria for hosting, were the Panthers' season-long accomplishments not worthy enough of a selection? Midd lost three games by a combined 5 points, two of the games being at Amherst.

We have a case, a bracket, where two teams could stake even claims for hosting. NCAA criteria awarded the sectional to one of the two teams. No one got "robbed."

Plenty of nice places to stay in Middlebury, even with the Marriott booked. If you haven't already done so, check out:

The Middlebury Inn
http://www.middleburyinn.com/

The Inn on the Green
http://innonthegreen.com/

The Swift House Inn
http://www.swifthouseinn.com/

The Waybury Inn
http://www.wayburyinn.com/

The first three are right in town. The Waybury is in the adjoining village of East Middlebury, about a 5-10 minute drive from Midd.

[gordonmann]

Yes, many times. I lived in Binghamton from 2000-2004. In fact, I think you and I met in person once, many moons (like 8-10 years) ago, either at King's or Scranton.  That's back when Colonel John was a student at Wilkes. I was about 30 pounds lighter and moderately less bald then.

I sort of functioned as the radio guy for Scranton's men in their last Sweet 16 run. This was before Dean Corwin and the WUSR arrangement. The two Scranton teams didn't have  consistent radio coverage and I was basically looking to fill my weekends when Cortland State wasn't playing at home (I worked with Cortland consistently from 2000-2004).

So I started covering the Royals with online broadcasts during the regular season and followed them all the way through the tournament. I really enjoyed that season.  Coaches Danzig and Strong were great. Kevin Southard was a tremendous host. The atmosphere was exciting. I still think of Derek Elphick everytime I drive by a sign for Moosic, PA.  I was very happy to be along for the ride. In that case, I actually did follow Scranton to Wooster...though I was there for D3hoops, technically.

A year or two later Dean started working with WUSR.  I've still covered games at Scranton occassionally since then, but less often. Dean does a tremendous job -- he's one of the best at this level -- so I don't add much value in broadcasting those games, particularly now with the video coverage.  I still see the Royals on the road.

I don't really work with any specific school for hoops.  I played a similar role for Cabrini this year that I did for Scranton in the early 2000s, but I don't work exclusively with the program.  That's another reason I'm not following them to Vermont.  But again, I've very much enjoyed covering the Cavs this season. I've just been fortunate to be the right guy in the right place. The Cabrini and Scranton programs seem similar to me in many respects.

End of resume post.  Sorry for dominating conversation here.

[onetinsoldier]

Teams determine their own fate. Middlebury did last year when they went to Rochester because of an NCAA rule and decision, won two games, and advanced to Salem. Hosting guarantees nothing.

And again, why is Cabrini so much more deserving than Middlebury to host? If we are simply talking about what a team accomplished during a season as criteria for hosting, were the Panthers' season-long accomplishments not worthy enough of a selection? Midd lost three games by a combined 5 points, two of the games being at Amherst.

We have a case, a bracket, where two teams could stake even claims for hosting. NCAA criteria awarded the sectional to one of the two teams. No one got "robbed."

To try and compare what Middlebury did last year to what Cabrini must do this year is comparing apples to oranges.  Last year, Midd was a 25-1 number one seed going traveling to 20-5 #3 seed.  Cabrini is a number 1 seed traveling to a 23-2 #2 seed, who oh by the way hasnt lost a home game in two and a half years.  Do they control their own fate? Sure.  but beating Middlebury in Middlebury would be as tough as any game an eventual champion has had to win in several years.   Something they (likely) would not have had to do had the Babson women pulled off an equally improbably upset. 

Let me ask you this since you appear to be a Middlebury fan.  Would you rather have Middlebury's road or Amherst's road to the final four?  Would you rather have Cabrini's road to the Final Four, or F&M's?  My guess is in both cases, the answer is the #2 seed. 

and finally to address your "deserving" point, both are deserving.  But i dont make that rule.  Typically the NCAA tries to protect seeding at the top if it can, meaning MA1>NE2 (assuming records et al being about equal).  And without those final RRs we dont really know.

[sp0rtsfan]

Went to the 2 games at WPU this past weekend and killed my vocal cords rooting for the Royals. The 2 dunks on Messiah made the walls shake (ha !)  and I'm still in disbelief with the game against Becker...Kept waiting for Becker to make their move but it never happened ....Hey, I was their in '76 for the Rock'n Roll Royals championship game at Albright.... I don't think they were the big favs that year as well.   

[Bucket]

Good points, onetinsoldier. And of course, I'd rather be home than not.

That said, if Amherst and Cabrini both advance to Salem, I wouldn't be shocked or surprised. Disappointed in the case of Cabrini, but not shocked.

[sp0rtsfan]

..........was THERE, not "their" in '76 for the Rock'n Roll Royals national championship game at Albright....It was practically a home game for Scranton...ROCK ON !!  GO ROYALS !