MBB: Landmark Conference

[ronk]

Not a surprise here. Merchant Marine heading back to the Skyline Conference: http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2015/05/merchant-marine-returns-skyline-conference

Look no further than the MAC Commonwealth for their replacement.

Makes more sense to stay with 8 schools; they may have just gone to 9 to accommodate E-town after choosing Scranton over them 8 years ago. Now they have the opportunity to go back to a full schedule every playing day without a bye for 1 team or the special arrangements for MMA's travel needs.

[kate]

O.K. CCHoopster, I'm taking the bait - Mitts off the MAC!!!  Either side!!!

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I highly doubt the MAC loses any teams in the near future. I have had countless conversations with different people in the conference and outside ... and I just don't see it happening. They would have bolted already when E'town did if they were really interested. I think eight is the right number for the Landmark... unless they added two to go to ten. I could see that, but when I broke down who... I didn't see MAC teams being the obvious choice. To be honest... there was only two schools I ended up with that would fit... and I just don't see anything happening in the short-term.

[kate]

Someday I really need to talk with somebody about this - what does "that would fit" mean exactly?  Does it mean a small school who, of course, wants to win - but in the end, it's just for the joy of playing collegiate sports?  Schools that don't have football, although I'm sure there are times when our "old" teams, Juniata, Moravian and Susquehanna have wondered "what have we done"?  Said it before, distance travelled is the only reason I could see for forming a geographically aligned league.  Money surely does not grow on trees. 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Someday I really need to talk with somebody about this - what does "that would fit" mean exactly?  Does it mean a small school who, of course, wants to win - but in the end, it's just for the joy of playing collegiate sports?  Schools that don't have football, although I'm sure there are times when our "old" teams, Juniata, Moravian and Susquehanna have wondered "what have we done"?  Said it before, distance travelled is the only reason I could see for forming a geographically aligned league.  Money surely does not grow on trees.

Number of sports offered is a big one - and which sports.  There's also the old "mission and vision alignment" which really translates to "how much money do they sink into the athletics dept."  A conference wants schools with similar goal for athletics, which usually boils down to winning conference championships vs competing for national titles.

[kate]

Thanks for the input HoopsFan.  It's really an extremely interesting topic.  As much as we always wanted to beat Scranton, I was always proud when they went to the NCAA's.  Now, too, our Aggies truly love to conquer FDU, and yet I was thrilled  when they won the National Championship last year.  Also, as far as sports offered, when the initial five teams left the MAC, we were all offering pretty much the same (DVU has added women's golf, men's & women's tennis & men's and women's lacrosse).  I would have loved to be a fly on the wall to hear those initial meetings forming the Landmark.  Also, I will Never forget, back in 2006, when I was going on & on about how angry I was, a Drew poster shot me down & reminded me that it was NOT the decision of the student athlete, but an administration that was convinced that even though they were "like minded", they were somehow "different".  Again, one interesting topic.

[NEPAFAN]

Really hoping Del Val joins us in the Landmark ! 

[kate]

  - Hey, NEPAFAN, knock it off  !  For the first time in awhile d3 hoops has surpassed FB for my attention.  That's how much I love d3 sports and miss you guys!!!

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Well Hoops Fan may be dancing around one of the biggest reasons for the right "fit" ... type of school.

Look at the Landmark conference, for example. They are all are similar in cost (MMA is different in the fact that you need a Congressional appointment to get in), academic standards and expectations, admissions standards (again, look at the difficulty to get in at the USMMA), school size, etc., etc., etc.

Nothing against Delaware Valley University... but it doesn't fit into those things with the Landmark. There are a number of people who think York would be a likely candidate for the Landmark, but in reality they probably aren't.

People roll their eyes when they hear "like minded" but that is true with almost all conferences. The NESCAC isn't going to accept Albertus Magnus because they don't fit with the rest of the schools in the conference. The Centennial isn't going to accept Lancaster Bible. And it works the other way, the SUNYAC, WIAC, etc. aren't going to accept non-state schools. (Yes, affiliations to fill the ranks of the sport(s) are the exceptions.)

So when I say being the right fit... I have a lot of that in mind outside of athletics (because it influences the athletic departments) and athletically as well. However, there are plenty of examples in many conferences where they fit academically and don't fit athletically... but that tough fit athletically doesn't stop them from being a member. Many conferences have academic relationships within their group as well that develop from their athletic partnership. It isn't just about athletics.

[kate]

Kind of a slippery slope here Dave.  Was unaware of differences between say Hood and Goucher, or even Moravian and Albright.  I'm sure there are more similarities, but I'm too lazy to research stats.  At any rate, thank you, as always, for your imput.

[kate]

Also, Dave, I didn't say that I wanted DVU to join the Landmark - please!!!  The Landmark, or as I think of it, the NEWMAC, needs no one else.  You're all just fine.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Kind of a slippery slope here Dave.  Was unaware of differences between say Hood and Goucher, or even Moravian and Albright.  I'm sure there are more similarities, but I'm too lazy to research stats.  At any rate, thank you, as always, for your imput.

I don't think it's a slippery slope at all... if you don't think the schools, presidents, ADs, etc. know the differences in the schools on a much more basic level and understand what conferences are looking for what schools to fit their group... you are nuts. What I am saying is basically public knowledge and understood throughout. It is the reason York would LOVE to be in a different conference but the reason I hear all of the time why they can't join where they wan (Landmark).

And it isn't just about tuition... it's also about admissions standards, academic goals, etc. I'm not saying Hood, Goucher, Moravian, and Albright seem that different on paper... but they may be different in the eyes of those running the schools. Also, I'd leave Albright out of the conversation based strictly on the fact they have football LOL.

And I know you weren't saying DVU should be in the Landmark... I was just using them as an example since they were brought up in the recent conversations.

And why would you say the Landmark is the NEWMAC... interesting comparison.

[ronk]

Kind of a slippery slope here Dave.  Was unaware of differences between say Hood and Goucher, or even Moravian and Albright.  I'm sure there are more similarities, but I'm too lazy to research stats.  At any rate, thank you, as always, for your imput.

I don't think it's a slippery slope at all... if you don't think the schools, presidents, ADs, etc. know the differences in the schools on a much more basic level and understand what conferences are looking for what schools to fit their group... you are nuts. What I am saying is basically public knowledge and understood throughout. It is the reason York would LOVE to be in a different conference but the reason I hear all of the time why they can't join where they wan (Landmark).

And it isn't just about tuition... it's also about admissions standards, academic goals, etc. I'm not saying Hood, Goucher, Moravian, and Albright seem that different on paper... but they may be different in the eyes of those running the schools. Also, I'd leave Albright out of the conversation based strictly on the fact they have football LOL.

And I know you weren't saying DVU should be in the Landmark... I was just using them as an example since they were brought up in the recent conversations.

And why would you say the Landmark is the NEWMAC... interesting comparison.

Kate probably meant "new MAC".

[kate]

You're right, Ronk - that's exactly what I meant.  Just so you guys know, I love and appreciate d3 sports.  I would never demean them in any way, but that said, I see a ton of our East Coast schools scrambling for students, and it would take more than a sports league to set many of them apart, although they certainly all have their attributes.  Said it once, I'm saying it again - I genuinely hope that the MAC remains diverse!  Now that our five, make that six old MAC schools have jumped ship, it does make for more hype and competition when we play them.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

To be honest... the diversity is what is causing problems in the MAC. It is also causing strife between MAC schools and it is causing schools to think about going elsewhere. Diversity is a nice thing on paper, but it is the reason the Landmark was created because schools were tired of the diversity in their old conferences and the problems from recruiting to admissions to competition to conference business matters. The problems, concerns, and comments I have been hearing in the MAC for the past few years... are based on its diversity.