MBB: Landmark Conference

[Pat Coleman]

In the preseason, voters love good teams who return a lot of good players. There are so few of those this season, so the voters definitely latched on.

Babson has a perfectly legitimate court. I was there the second weekend. It's fine. Just old. You have plenty of good points -- this just isn't one of them.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

D-mac:
Most of what you stated in paragraph 3 is what most people that follow Royal basketball have been saying for Danzig's entire tenure...so nothing new there.
Please explain though how Scranton "underperformed", last year?
They beat Catholic in Washington to win the Landmark after Catholic was thought to "possibly" go undefeated in conference play last season.
They then won a first round NCAA game in Babson & lost in the second round to the host that plays on a court most CYO leagues wouldn't sanction.
So where exactly was that team supposed to go?
You didn't give them a snowballs chance in hell to win the Landmark yet they did...so are you now saying you expected them to win at Babson even though Babson was like 8th. in the country & the Royals were, as usual. unranked?

Where my issue comes from is this sudden love for a Catholic team that was already better than Scranton last year but still couldn't win at home for the title.
Yes, they return a talented crew & they'll be good, but 6th. in the country???
Also, let's keep in mind that Danzig was hurt all year & rarely was able to be the player he was capable of being so many other kids picked up the slack.
Klingman was far better as a junior as there were games last year he couldn't buy a basket & he never played D.
So in reality, lets not place too high a premium on these two departures.
Still a team game & Catholic has yet to take 2 games in a season from Scranton since the Jefferson Administration.
The Landmark Championship still must go through the Electric City.

Personally, I just expect more from Scranton for a program that consistently wins 19+ games and whose fans think is one of the best in the country (not necessarily you, saratoga, generalization for argument here). I also expect more from a team that seems to struggle to win game to game and not dominate teams they should be dominating.

They lost to Husson in Vegas last year in a game that said a lot about Husson, but was very winnable for Scranton. They threw away chances left and right. They then struggled versus Hanover who had their moments but were essentially .500 for the season. They lost to an above-average, but okay Misericordia team in a very low scoring affair. They barely beat Goucher... who was very beatable (though granted, could have their moments like they did against Amherst). They got smoked by Susquehanna after barely beating them by two... and then finally got a big win in the third match-up. I feel they underperformed because if they were as good as many on here said they were and how they seemed on paper, they would have maybe beaten Husson, smoked Hanover, handled Goucher easily every time, never lost to Misericordia or Susquehanna, etc. They also would not have been playing the Landmark title game AT Catholic.

I don't consider their NCAA tournament performance as underperforming, but I also not get excited about a win over Baruch. They lost to a darn good Babson squad at their place, but if Scranton had been more consistent during the season they wouldn't have been playing Baruch in the second round, they might have been at home with easier competition - that would have resulted in probably playing in the second weekend for only the second time in recent memory. (Let's also keep in mind that if Scranton had NOT beaten Catholic in the title game, they might not have been in the NCAA tournament.)

Scranton is always touted as being a good and dangerous team, but they don't live up to the hype and that frustrates me. I can understand why some Scranton faithful are frustrated and I guess I have read too much into what those close to the program think and have been disappointed when I don't see it. Furthermore, I have seen this team more times than I can count off the top of my head and can't figure out how they can't seem to put it together in a region I think has been ripe for the taking for YEARS.

Before I leave the topic of Scranton - I mention Cummings because in the Top 25 information I was given on the team, it was noted he had left the team. If he wasn't in any way a person worth noting, that information most likely wouldn't have been shared. Heck, other teams being considered didn't mention far more recognizable names not being available for their teams for varying reasons. So the fact it was mentioned and not discarded caused me to take note. He might not have put up a ton of points, but it seems he was an important part of the team or was expected to be important moving forward.

As for the sudden love for Catholic - I know I have them number six and I feel uneasy about it... but as Pat noted many other voters take stock in teams that bring back everyone. Think about this: two Top 25 voters put Amherst number one on their ballots. Amherst wasn't in the Top 25 at the end of last season. They returned a lot and two voters have bought all in. With that in mind, not surprising Catholic is getting some love.

Another thing to consider: things are WIDE open these days in men's basketball. My blog, which will come out tomorrow (just haven't gotten it done as quickly as I expected), will talk about the parity how I see it. After number one (for me and 22 others), I can't wrap my mind around any other team with any solid conviction. Parity has become deeper and deeper in the last few years. This is yet another incredibly wide open year - more than any other year I have ever seen including last year when it was insane. So voters like the fact a team is bringing back that much experience. I also like how they have a very challenging schedule. Should they fail under that schedule, then the voters will bolt like cockroaches when the lights come on. Scranton goes and proves they can play consistent basketball... they will get their chance in the Top 25. There are a TON of teams who people could argue deserve to be in the Top 25 - which is just 5-6% of Division III.

By the way... I'm just one voter, one person. People don't have to agree with my opinions and I don't expect you to, but don't believe for a moment my opinions are the only ones out there. I learn things new each and every day from different people I talk to who have different points of view, from games I see online and in person, and from talking to coaches. My opinion could change.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Scranton played 20-30th place basketball last year.  They're bringing back a team, let's say 90% as good (sine Danzig was hurt most of the year) - why would they be any higher than 20-30th place?

Sure, there's an argument to be made that a lot of these teams lost players and it's all a guessing game - I'm just not sure what evidence exists that would make voters really believe Scranton is any more capable of taking advantage of returning players than anyone else.

[NEPAFAN]

Scranton played 20-30th place basketball last year.  They're bringing back a team, let's say 90% as good (sine Danzig was hurt most of the year) - why would they be any higher than 20-30th place?

Sure, there's an argument to be made that a lot of these teams lost players and it's all a guessing game - I'm just not sure what evidence exists that would make voters really believe Scranton is any more capable of taking advantage of returning players than anyone else.

Fair enough, but I think some have issues with the gap b/w Catholic and Scranton in the poll. That being said, go out and play the games.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Scranton played 20-30th place basketball last year.  They're bringing back a team, let's say 90% as good (sine Danzig was hurt most of the year) - why would they be any higher than 20-30th place?

Sure, there's an argument to be made that a lot of these teams lost players and it's all a guessing game - I'm just not sure what evidence exists that would make voters really believe Scranton is any more capable of taking advantage of returning players than anyone else.

Fair enough, but I think some have issues with the gap b/w Catholic and Scranton in the poll. That being said, go out and play the games.

Yeah, the teams that brought everyone back moved to the top of the poll, seemingly, whether they deserved it or not.  I will say, if most voters' opinion of Catholic was formed in the tournament (which it probably was), that's going to be a pretty positive impression.  They played well and bringing everyone back is confidence-building.

[ronk]

 List of nonconference opponents for the Landmark this season; additional ones will depend upon results of tourney 1st round games: Case Western, F&M, Stony Brook, Ithaca, NYU, Hobart, St. Vincent, Trinity(CT), Dickinson, Johns Hopkins.
Landmark outlook: Last season Catholic & Scranton lost only 1 conference game  between them to the other teams. I see more of the same this season with a 7-way battle for the other 2 playoff spots. I'd favor Drew and MMA for those spots.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

ronk - is this just a sampling? There are a several games for Goucher (since I know their's off the top of my head for obvious reasons) you have left off: Stevenson, Navy, Mt. Aloysius, Hood, Lynchburg, and Gallaudet just for the Gophers.

[ronk]

ronk - is this just a sampling? There are a several games for Goucher (since I know their's off the top of my head for obvious reasons) you have left off: Stevenson, Navy, Mt. Aloysius, Hood, Lynchburg, and Gallaudet just for the Gophers.

Just the stronger opponents - I should have included Navy, and I left out the MAC schools.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Why leave out the MAC opponents? That conference is deeper than the Landmark.

And why leave out Lynchburg? They have been in the mix for the ODAC for several years now.

[ronk]

Why leave out the MAC opponents? That conference is deeper than the Landmark.

And why leave out Lynchburg? They have been in the mix for the ODAC for several years now.

The MAC didn't win an NCAA game last year and Lynchburg wasn't in the tourney.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Sure... but I don't think that means they should be discounted. The MAC is a strong conference and Stevenson was picked by the coaches to finish first this year (as they were last year)... and Lynchburg is in the upper third of the ODAC which says a lot about them.

For reference, you picked out NYU who didn't make the tournament and usually is in the middle of the UAA, Case Western who tends to be in the bottom of the UAA, Hobart who also didn't make the NCAA tournament, and St. Vincent who lost in the NCAA first round. Those are four teams you referenced who have the same qualifications you dismissed from the ones I suggested. My point being... why not include the others?

[Pat Coleman]

Dave -- honestly, because they play Goucher and who cares until Goucher itself is competitive? I think this is the real answer even if nobody wants to say it.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Thanks for that, Pat. Not my point, I just chose the schedule I knew off the top of my head.

[ronk]

Sure... but I don't think that means they should be discounted. The MAC is a strong conference and Stevenson was picked by the coaches to finish first this year (as they were last year)... and Lynchburg is in the upper third of the ODAC which says a lot about them.

For reference, you picked out NYU who didn't make the tournament and usually is in the middle of the UAA, Case Western who tends to be in the bottom of the UAA, Hobart who also didn't make the NCAA tournament, and St. Vincent who lost in the NCAA first round. Those are four teams you referenced who have the same qualifications you dismissed from the ones I suggested. My point being... why not include the others?

Because I have insider SID data that leads me to include and exclude? ; I included UAA teams because of the overall strength of the conference and Hobart who beat an under-performing Scranton team in the NCAA(2014); your points are valid - we'll include Stevenson; they'll also be playing Scranton on a neutral court and other teams in the Hoopsville so they'll be a bellweather for inter-conference competition.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Well ronk, I think Lynchburg is in the same boat as the UAA schools - similar record to Case Western in a Top 5 conference.

But anyway... was that all of the non-conference opponents for all the schools? Just seems like there aren't a lot. Are a lot of teams playing the same teams? I haven't gone through all the schedules, yet.