WBB: Landmark Conference

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Understood. I am just asking. Watching is good, but dive in like many of us do. I warn you ... you will lose a lot of your life doing it LOL, but dive in and see how this all works around the country. It will give a different perspective.

One of the most rewarding things I did when I was much longer was when I removed the "blue colored glasses" and started to see and appreciate things besides from my alma mater's perspective. It changed a lot of things and made me realize just where our program, the conference, and the region really sat. That isn't a knock on my favorite team(s), but more of an appreciation of just how good things really are in DIII.

Now, it's turned into a (non-paying) career, but I have also had a completely different point of view of DIII as a result.

[ronk]

Gordon let's use that theory.So Dartmouth only losses to bowdoin by 7 then they loss to umass Boston that Scranton dusted by 31 does that count.See you cant use that in justifying voting you take the whole picture into account if Mann played and 3 starters are not sick they win that game or do you do that just for certain teams .

I try to apply the same standards to all teams, but don't know if I always succeed. Fortunately my opinion only accounts for 1/25th of the poll results.

I did take Bridgette's injury into account as I noted below. I dropped the Royals in part because of her status. I wasn't aware of the players being sick this weekend. That's a level of personal detail that's not appropriate for us to request (nor would teams provide it if we did).

Your point about the Mass-Dartmouth/Mass-Boston/Scranton/Bowdoin comparative results is a very good one. That comparative score set you noted certainly does make Scranton look good.

So here's a criteria I use in putting together my ballot, and again remember I'm only one voter. I keep a list of what I consider to be good wins and bad losses. The theory here is that the best win sets a team's ceiling -- what it's capable of doing in March -- and the worst loss sets the floor. Results vary within that range throughout the year. 

Here's how my ballot looks.

1) Thomas More -- Best win: No. 6 Mary Hardin-Baylor/No. 11 Hope...worst loss: none
2) Bowdoin -- W - No. 4 Tufts/No. 5 Amherst...L - None
3) Mary Hardin-Baylor: W - No. 15 East Texas Baptist...L - No. 2 Thomas More
4) St. Thomas: W - No. 14 George Fox...L - No. 16 Wartburg
5) Trine: W - No. 11 Hope (twice)...L - No. 22 Transylvania
6) Illinois Wesleyan: W - No. 16 Wartburg...L - UW-Whitewater (12-7 overall)
7) Wartburg: W - No. 4 St. Thomas...L - Luther (9-8)
8) Hope: W - No. 12 UW-Oshkosh...L - No. 8 Trine (twice)
9) UW-Oshkosh: W - Wheaton (ranked on my ballot)...L - UW-Whitewater (12-7 overall)
10) Amherst: W - Trinity (16-4)...L - East Conn (12-7)
11) Tufts: W - Middlebury (17-3)...L - No. 1 Bowdoin
12) Scranton: W - No. 18 DeSales...L - Elizabethtown (12-6)
13) Whitman: W - No. 14 George Fox...L - Puget Sound (14-4)
14) George Fox: W - Puget Sound or Claremont...L - Bethel (14-5) or Puget Sound
15) Messiah: W - No. 23 Gettysburg (not on my ballot)...L - York (9-10)
16) Texas-Dallas: W - No. 15 East Texas Baptist...L - Hardin-Simmons (16-3)
17) DeSales: W - Trinity (16-4)...L - Sage (10-8) [Misericordia is now the best win but it wasn't when I cast my ballot]
18) St. Joseph's (Maine): W - Husson/Pomona-Pitzer...L - None
19) Chicago: W - No. 13 Illinois Wesleyan...L - NYU (10-7)
20) East Texas Baptist: W - Hardin-Simmons (13-6)...L - No. 15 Texas-Dallas
21) Wheaton: W - No. 13 Illinois Wesleyan...L - Augustana (11-9)
22) DePauw: W - No. 8 Trine...L - Wittenberg (12-8)
23) Transylvania: W - No. 8 Trine...L - Rose-Hulman (13-6)
24) Loras: W - Washington U. (13-5)...L - Wheaton
25) Washington U. W - No. 19 Chicago...L - Westminster (Mo.) 15-4

This isn't the only criteria I use, but I try to have some level of internal consistency here within my own ballot. So a win over Wheaton means more to me than it does to the average voter. I'm very high on UMHB so Thomas More's win over them on the road is a better win than Bowdoin beating Tufts and Amherst.

Teams that lack a really good win fall much lower on my ballot than in the poll. St. Joe's is 18th and has fallen in recent weeks versus No. 10 in the poll. No. 17 SUNY Geneseo isn't on my ballot at all because they have a loss to New Paltz (13-4) and no signature win I can point to.

For some teams the best result is a close loss. So Texas-Dallas gets a push up my ballot because they had a very close loss to Thomas More. Amherst's best result is a relatively close loss to Bowdoin (it was within two possessions with a minute to play). Oshkosh's best result is a close loss to Hope. George Fox's is a close loss to St. Thomas, though these geographically isolated teams are the hardest to slot. I think the NWC and ASC teams are very good, but most of their results only refer back to each other.

From a best win perspective, you could certainly argue that Scranton belongs above Amherst and Tufts. Those three teams are really close in my mind and the Amherst/Tufts loser drops below Scranton after Saturday. I'm hedging my bets a little by keeping the two NESCAC teams close to each other for one week. In retrospect Oshkosh looks out of place.

From a "worst loss perspective," the team with the lowest floor is Wartburg, but they also have a really high ceiling because they crushed St. Thomas. The only team ahead of Scranton on my ballot with a worst loss is maybe Amherst or UW-Oshkosh. I would take East Conn and UW-Whitewater over E-town, but maybe I'm selling E-town short.

The gap between Scranton and Amherst, Tufts and Oshkosh isn't big. Your argument that I have the order wrong is reasonable.

Thanks for your ballot and the reasoning. I'd vote more like the consensus top 25 with Amherst #4 and Scranton #5, moving UMHB, Trine, IWU, Wartburg, Hope, and Oshkosh below them.

[gordonmann]

Rofrog and Ronk:

Those are fair points. I admit that I have a tendency to fall in love with up-tempo teams that have height at the guard position (Illinois Wesleyan, Mary Hardin-Baylor). I watch them run skilled teams liked Wartburg, DePauw or Austin off the court and then boost them up my rankings, perhaps disproportionately so.

[Rofrog]

Talk about height last year in Nashville we played Wheaton and they were tall and young.It was pretty awesome after Scranton beat them- they came up and asked the team to go to the middle of the court and form a circle and pray  with them that was awesome in my eyes.

[Rofrog]

Tell you the truth I like when Dave and Gordon shows the way they vote ,Ty for that i get a better insight the way you guys vote and then that opens up the door for discussions.

[Pat Coleman]

Tell you the truth I like when Dave and Gordon shows the way they vote ,Ty for that i get a better insight the way you guys vote and then that opens up the door for discussions.

+1

[gordonmann]

And I like hearing your opinions, even when they differ from mine. So thanks for offering them.

Group hug!

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

The Hoopsville Marathon Show ... is tomorrow!

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It is all about celebrating the season, student-athletes, coaches, and an exciting season.

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We will share more about the show a little later.

[ronk]

Watched the UCONN-Louisville women's game tonight; one of the officials was Joe Vaszily, '95 Scranton grad and chair of the Board of Trustees who did the D1 Final last season and usually refs in the Final 4 the last many seasons.

[Rofrog]

Second game Trevor gets out coached.Never once did they attack the basket until 4th Quarter.Come up with a better game plan coach-When you have a player like Bridgette things work better for you.When you dont you make adjustments in the ETown,Catholic no adjustments same **** handoff,handoff on offense,Then on Defense he went to the zone twice in the game They where lost out there,Coach dont worry about the fans worry about your team you have big problem when Bridgette is not  in and it showed.Like Turnovers,Lazy passing,Not hustling for the ball,Not ATTACKING THE basket.Bridgette makes you look to good.True skills showed.Team 12-8 beat you in every aspect of the game that is all on you.

[Rofrog]

This is my first regional pick for the Middle Atlantic Conferenc.Scranton Withhout Bridgette Mann.1Messiah 21-1 ,Southern Virgina 17-3,Scranton 19-2,Getyysburg 17-3,John Hoplins 17-3 we will be on the road if no adjustments are made.I understand they only coach ,but they also put their best basketball players out there!!!!Anyone can coach a team with bridgette mann- only a few can coach when your best are hurt.,

[saratoga]

Desales will be leading the Atlantic Region as they are not in the Middle Atlantic any longer.

Right now, they are head & shoulders above everyone else.

Not having your best player out for 3/4 of the season will do that.

Kids looked great at Juniata 2 weeks ago but have looked tired, slow, confused, reluctant & uninspired since.

Step up or step aside.

[ronk]

Back to basketball after that commercial for spellcheck.

If the Mid-Atlantic Regional came out tomorrow (which I know it doesn't) this is how I see it right now:

1.Scranton

2.Messiah

3.Gettysburg

4.Johns Hopkins

5.Widener

6.Southern Virginia

7.Christopher Newport

8. Probably 5 teams vying for the last spot.

Any other schools I'm missing having solid years?

This is certainly all subject to change over the next 2 weeks.

The school that is somewhat surprising in a good way is Southern Virginia. They are doing a real nice job and passed a big test last evening.

On the other hand, the team moving in the wrong direction is Muhlenberg.

They are 0 for 2019 and have lost at least 5 & possibly 6 straight games.

What is interesting this year about the Mid-Atlantic rankings is that Trevor is the Landmark rep on the regional advisory committee(RAC); other members are Nate Davis(Gettysburg-originally rumored to be the leading contender for the Scranton position), Janice Luck-Albright, and Bill Broderick-CNU with the chair being the Landmark director, Daniel Fisher.
  It'll be a question for Dave McHugh about the ranking procedures within the RAC, especially when there are only 5 members. Each of those 3 male coaches could conceivably want their own team to be #1 in the region at this time. is the ranking going to be decided by the other 2 members?

I brought this up with Trevor Woodruff yesterday after Scranton's game @ Catholic; he said no concern - Trevor, Bill Broderick, and Nate Davis were on the same RAC last season with Rose Katz of Arcadia as the Commonwealth rep. Janice Luck - Albright has replaced Rose this season. I wasn't aware of the board members last season; I became aware of this season's board members recently when someone posted a link to the NCAA championship manual.
  In addition, when Trevor mentioned the Commonwealth rep, I realized that I had left Messiah out of the discussion of the top 3 teams in the region. After Scranton's loss yesterday, Messiah may move to the top in the region when the rankings come out this week, even though Scranton defeated the team(York) who handed Messiah its only loss.

[Rofrog]

Good catch Nepafan on Desales being in the Atlantic I forget about that all the time!!

[Rofrog]

What irks me is you beat Catholic by 17 pts without bridgette at home You Travel to D.C Starting 5 almost the same except Taylor is in instead of Ava to start.i would love to know how you make up 17 pts exactly with  the same thing.My thought was watching them yesterday there is some problems inside the team.This team is not the same as it was and you can see it in there play,For instance against Etown you fouled out one big and the 2nd one had four so why not attack underneath with Sofia to make that girl foul out(little things like that change the game) I dont even want to talk about Turnovers I think they average 19 per game.Passing is not great.Shooting 3s we all know that sayong(you live by the 3 you die by the 3 yesterday and Etown 7-28 is unacceptable and that goes to show they where not getting it into Mason or Recupero and one other thing I really notice yesterday is that the defense is not collapsing on the guard driving she is driving uncontested you should not have a 5ft3 driving the lane with 6ft3 ,5ft11 there is no way  in hell.Ladies you really need to pick up the defense you have been slipping as of late put it behind you and let's play like the champs you are!!