Great Lakes Region

[sac]

I'll try to do another fan poll this week if people are interested.  Same deal, PM or email, lets make tommorrow night the deadline.  Maybe later I'll do a 'how they fared' kind of thing.

[sac]

Week 2 Great Lakes Poll

1. Wooster (4) 11-2..............66
2. Hope (3) 10-2...................64
3. Capital 11-2......................52
4. Carnegie Mellon 10-2.........49
5. Heidelberg 11-2.................44
6. Ohio Wesleyan 8-4............30
7t. Wabash 8-5.....................12
7t. Wittenberg 7-5.................12
9t. Calvin 7-5........................11
9t. PSU-Behrend 8-3...............11

Others receiving votes:  Muskingum 8, Lake Erie 7, Case Western 4, Ohio Northern 4, Albion 3, Wilmington 1, Grove City 1


Key matchups this week

Wednesday
#3 Capital @ #5 Heidelberg
#6 Ohio Wesleyan @ #7t Wabash

Saturday
#1 Wooster @ #7t Wittenberg

[kiltedbryan]

Key matchups this week

Wednesday
#3 Capital @ #5 Heidelberg
#6 Ohio Wesleyan @ #7t Wabash

Saturday
#1 Wooster @ #7t Wittenberg

I would be surprised if all three of the higher "seeds" came away with road victories this week.

[sac]

I received another vote earlier today, then was reminded that Tuesday was the deadline last week, sorry if I caught everyone off-gaurd.  I just forgot.  So Tuesday's the deadline from now on.



Week 2 Great Lakes Poll(Edited)

1. Wooster (4) 11-2..............75
2. Hope (4) 10-2...................74
3. Capital 11-2......................60
4. Carnegie Mellon 10-2.........55
5. Heidelberg 11-2.................51
6. Ohio Wesleyan 8-4............35
7t. Wabash 8-5.....................15
7t. Calvin 7-5........................15
9. Wittenberg 7-5.................14
10. PSU-Behrend 8-3...............11

Others receiving votes:  Muskingum 8, Lake Erie 8, Case Western 4, Ohio Northern 4, Albion 3, Wilmington 1, Grove City 1


Key matchups this week

Wednesday
#3 Capital @ #5 Heidelberg
#6 Ohio Wesleyan @ #7t Wabash

Saturday
#1 Wooster @ #9 Wittenberg

Only change is Calvin moves up a tie to #7, Witt "drops" to #9


 

[ChicagoHopeNut]

This regional poll is a great idea and a nice way to get a broader feel for the region prior to the NCAA rankings. When do the first NCAA regional rankings come out?

[imderekpoe]

This regional poll is a great idea and a nice way to get a broader feel for the region prior to the NCAA rankings. When do the first NCAA regional rankings come out?

The NCAA regional rankings are released on Feb 13, Feb 20 and Feb 27.

[ChicagoHopeNut]

I wonder if anyone that voted Wooster #1 could give me their explanation as to why they think Wooster is so much more respected in this small posters poll than they are in the D3 Top 25 relative to Hope? The last national poll has Hope at 6 and Wooster at 20 but in this poll we have Wooster higher (albeit a close race). I am not at all suggesting I think anyone is wrong. As I said I still fear Hope is rated to highly in the Top 25. I just wonder if anyone has a good explanation for why Wooster may be under appreciated nationally.

[pufin]

I hope this answer to DCHopeNut's question is not taken the wrong way, but ...

I am one of the voters who ranked Wooster at 1. The easiest answer is that I am a Wooster grad and fan. But that is not the complete answer.

I have Wooster, Hope and Capital all in my top 3, and I have to sort them from there. (I am beginning to re-tink my Capital ranking, but that is not part of this discussion.) If I look at the Wooster and Hope results so far, I find it easier to evaluate the Wooster results because I know more about the teams that they have played. I don't know anything about Cornerstone, Aquinas (x2) and Marygrove other than Hope plays them every year. The D3 schedule that Hope has played so far is very impressive, but it is only six games (5-1, 2-0 MIAA, 5-1 GL). Wooster has played ten D3 teams (9-1, 4-0 NCAC, 5-0 GL). As the season moves on, there will be more for me to judge on.

And just because I am a Wooster grad/fan does not mean that I will always vote them #1. I will evaluate all teams fairly.

[kiltedbryan]

DCHN-

As a Wooster poster, I didn't vote Woo #1 in this poll, I slotted Hope into the top spot.  I'm deferring to the national pollsters there, but at the same time, I have seen Wooster, Capital, Heidelberg and Ohio Wesleyan in person, and followed closely the Wooster-Wabash game from this weekend.  Of those four teams, Wooster beat Bash and OWU, and my assessment is that Wooster is better than Capital and Heidelberg. In a lapse of judgment, I missed the Capital-Carnegie Mellon game on 12/31, otherwise I would have seen them, too, and compared them to Wooster.  So, at the very top of my regional ballot, Hope, Wooster and C-M are all basically equal in my eyes currently, because I have very little information to try to separate them from one another.

So you can see how Wooster would be right at the top of a regional ballot, but maybe still quite a ways down in a national ballot, because those pollsters feel that there is a larger gap between Hope/Capital/Wooster than I think there is. (They also disagree with me about Wooster being better than Capital.)

Wooster's national poll standing was hurt by starting the season 2-2, especially with a loss at Lake Erie, who, while a good team, is not considered national-caliber.  Wooster was expected to win that game, even though it was on the road at Lake Erie. I believe they dropped to 25th in the poll after an 0-2 week with those two losses.  Since then, Wooster has improved (especially with the impressive play of freshman post Brian Wickliffe) and has strung together 9 straight wins.  The loss of Wittenberg as a national power this season also probably hurts the perception of the quality of the NCAC, though teams like Ohio Wesleyan and Wabash have made the league more competitive than it has been in recent years when it was only a Wooster/Wittenberg race.

I should also say that as a fan, I'm not really concerned about Wooster's national poll ranking.  If they keep winning, it'll keep moving up- but the wins, not the poll ranking, is definitely the focus with Moore, I would think.

[imderekpoe]

Wooster has played ten D3 teams (9-1, 4-0 NCAC, 5-0 GL).

I believe that Wooster is 4-1 in the Great Lakes.  4 NCAC wins and a loss to Lake Erie.
BTW, the Lake Erie loss is my guess as to why the Scots aren't getting more love nationally.  The Storm are not as strong as in past years and managed to lose to Earlham - a team thas has lost 11 straight and shows no sign of winning again anytime soon.

I agree with Bryan that I'm sure that Coach Moore is more concerned about winning the conference than he is about where they are ranked nationally.  If they continue to win, the ranking will take care of itself.

[ScotsFan]

Good responses pufin, kb and cmh.  One thing to note.  pufin, You have Wooster at 5-0 in the GL Region and I believe that they are 4-1.  Remember, Wooster lost to LEC and that was an 'in-region' loss.  EDIT:  As kb and cmh have already pointed out.

I wonder if anyone that voted Wooster #1 could give me their explanation as to why they think Wooster is so much more respected in this small posters poll than they are in the D3 Top 25 relative to Hope? The last national poll has Hope at 6 and Wooster at 20 but in this poll we have Wooster higher (albeit a close race). I am not at all suggesting I think anyone is wrong. As I said I still fear Hope is rated to highly in the Top 25. I just wonder if anyone has a good explanation for why Wooster may be under appreciated nationally.

DCHN,

I'll throw my 2 cents in as well and maybe that will also help to answer your question:

Personally, I have Hope #1 on my ballot like kb.  However, I feel that Wooster and Hope are pretty dead even from a regional perspective.  Hope got the nod, IMO, because their lone regional loss is better than Woo's lone regional loss (Elmhurst vs. Lake Erie).  Outside of that, both Hope and Wooster have lost to a quality NAIA opponent and they have both also beaten a quality NAIA opponent.  If things stay as they are now, I would expect these 2 will be very tight atop the rankings when the first regional rankings are released in Feb.

As for the national poll, I'm not sure why there is such a large gap between Hope and Wooster.  Wooster plummetted in the polls after their loss to a very good Cedarville team on the road and they have only moved up 5 spots in the poll after winning 9 in a row.  Hope's ranking seems to be fair, but looking at Wooster sitting at #20, I honestly don't think that there are 19 teams better than the Scots. Thankfully, this isn't DI football and Wooster should get a shot to prove themselves come March.

I should also say that as a fan, I'm not really concerned about Wooster's national poll ranking.  If they keep winning, it'll keep moving up- but the wins, not the poll ranking, is definitely the focus with Moore, I would think.

Another good point kb.  The national rankings are merely for us fans to debate over.  The polls that really matter are the NCAA Regional Polls.  With only regional games from here on out, wins should be the most important thing on Wooster's mind.  They already have 2 HUGE road wins as you pointed out at OWU and at Wabash.  Their 3rd big road test comes this Saturday at Witt.  If they can get the sweep of those 3 games, Wooster will not only have a huge leg up on the NCAC race, but also the GL Regional race as well seeing as Hope has really only had one road test and that was a win at Olivet.  The Dutchmen still have road challeges at Albion and at Calvin to contend with.  And K'zoo's upset of Albion might have gotten some eyes raised as well.

[Hugenerd]

I am just wondering people's reasoning for having Capital ahead of CMU, when CMU beat Capital in Columbus?  CMU has only lost once since opening day and that was to the #1 team in the country.

[ScotsFan]

Personally, I have been reluctant to move CMU up higher on my ballot because of their lack of quality wins.  Cap is their lone quality win on their schedule IMO.  I guess you could say ONU was as well.  But ONU clearly isn't the same top notch opponent they have been over the past few years. 

I guess my view on the Tartans may change starting this Friday when they host #2 Brandeis.  A CMU win could throw them right into the mix with Hope and Wooster at the top of the GL Region.  A loss and I'm still going to keep them below the winner of the Cap/Heide game on Saturday.

[Hugenerd]

Personally, I have been reluctant to move CMU up higher on my ballot because of their lack of quality wins.  Cap is their lone quality win on their schedule IMO.  I guess you could say ONU was as well.  But ONU clearly isn't the same top notch opponent they have been over the past few years. 

I guess my view on the Tartans may change starting this Friday when they host #2 Brandeis.  A CMU win could throw them right into the mix with Hope and Wooster at the top of the GL Region.  A loss and I'm still going to keep them below the winner of the Cap/Heide game on Saturday.

But why wouldnt you still put them ahead of Capital, since they beat them on the road? 

I didnt mean putting them in first or anything like that, just why arent people rating them ahead of capital?

[David Collinge]

Oberlin beat Earlham
Earlham beat Lake Erie
Lake Erie beat Wooster
Wooster beat Walsh
Walsh beat Mt. Vernon Nazarene
Mt. Vernon Nazarene beat Ashland
Ashland beat Aquinas
Aquinas beat Hope

I don't vote in this poll, but if I did, I guess I'd have to vote Oberlin #1 in the region, at least until Denison beats them in Feb.! 

(But, seriously, I probably would put CMU ahead of Capital.  In case anyone didn't know it already, I'm fairly unimpressed with Capital.)