Great Lakes Region

[Mr. Ypsi]

D3Hoops does not have Franklin & Marshall in their projections, thus they project the three remaining spots going to Amherst, Brandies, and CM

Those projections were made when they thought F&M would be Pool A.

[goscots]

D3Hoops does not have Franklin & Marshall in their projections, thus they project the three remaining spots going to Amherst, Brandies, and CM

Those projections were made when they thought F&M would be Pool A.

Agreed - but it was my impression that D3 was also implying it was a one bid conference. I am not that up to speed on the relative strength of the Centennial conference.

If there truly are only two bids left, I would think the first team off the board of those three I listed would be Amherst, (D3 did state it was the last team they added).

[KnightSlappy]

Gettysburg beat Franklin and Marshall this evening, thats probably another Pool C bid gone.

TitanQ seems to feel there are only 2 bids unaccounted for.......really bad news for Carnegie and Calvin.

Here's his post from the Pool C discussion

I think 16 of the 18 Pool C's are basically accounted for:

(in no particular order)

1. UW-Whitewater
2. Buena Vista
3. St. Mary's (Md)
4. Guilford
5. UW-Platteville
6. Elmhurst
7. Capital
8. Rhode Island
9. St. Lawrence
10. Salem St.
11. Trinity-Tx
12. Ithaca
13. Farmingdale St.
14. Worcester Poly
15. Puget Sound
16. Franklin & Marshall

Candidates for final 2 spots:

(in no particular order)

* Randolph-Macon
* Hamilton
* Augustana
* Carnegie-Mellon
* Calvin
* Amherst
* Brandeis

Is this the time where we start whining and complaining that it isn't a 64 team tournament?

[Mr. Ypsi]

D3Hoops does not have Franklin & Marshall in their projections, thus they project the three remaining spots going to Amherst, Brandies, and CM

Those projections were made when they thought F&M would be Pool A.

Agreed - but it was my impression that D3 was also implying it was a one bid conference. I am not that up to speed on the relative strength of the Centennial conference.

If there truly are only two bids left, I would think the first team off the board of those three I listed would be Amherst, (D3 did state it was the last team they added).

The Centennial is weak enough that the conference really only deserves one bid.  But teams are selected, not conferences, and F&M deserves a slot despite blowing the game.

Conference tourneys can be very beneficial to weaker conferences - IF there is one dominant team, but they get upset in the tourney, the conference may get a second bid it did not really deserve.  For power conferences, tourneys are more likely to hurt than help, since teams who might otherwise be worthy will pick up another in-region loss.

[sac]

GL  64   01   02    0.6174 0.5369 0.5209 John Carroll              009  A in        21-3 23-4
GL  64   02   01    0.6095 0.5381 0.5156 Capital                   016  C 6         22-4 24-4
GL  63   03   04    0.5792 0.4870 0.5031 Wooster                   035  A in        21-4 22-6
GL  62   04   03    0.5785 0.4960 0.4984 Calvin                    039  C 19        14-3 19-8
GL  62   05   06    0.5827 0.5271 0.4988 Hope                      040  A in        14-4 21-7
GL  90   06   05    0.5918 0.5449 0.5273 Carnegie Mellon           041  C 20        15-5 19-6
GL  64   07   08    0.5577 0.5223 0.5196 Ohio Northern             081              16-8 18-9
GL  63   08   07    0.5480 0.4992 0.4979 Ohio Wesleyan             084              16-7 17-8
GL  61   09   09    0.5353 0.4870 0.4854 Penn State-Behrend        096              15-7 17-9

Pabegg ran his numbers tonight, Calvin comes in as Pool C #19, but also has  Carnegie at #20.  Once again though these aren't necessarily the NCAA's answers.  I think I'd take from this that Calvin is right on the edge and could go either way.

[ChicagoHopeNut]

I have to say Calvin coming in at 19 on the Pool C's is a bit surprising to me. I thought with the number of upsets this weekend taking Pool C spots that Calvin would be completely outside the picture this morning. Who knows? They may yet sneak in but I sure wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

[sac]

I have to say Calvin coming in at 19 on the Pool C's is a bit surprising to me. I thought with the number of upsets this weekend taking Pool C spots that Calvin would be completely outside the picture this morning. Who knows? They may yet sneak in but I sure wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

Those are Pabegg's numbers not necessarily the NCAA's, I'm sure Calvin was on the table at the end.  So anywhere between 19-25.

[realist]

I am more inclined to go with one of your earlier posts Sac, and think eliminating Calvin occurred early, and was easy and painless for the committee.

[Knight81]

This is probably a dumb question from a newby to the board like me, but why are there not 64 teams in the tournament? Why not have 64 teams who all play a first round game, instead of giving 4 teams a bye? I'm not saying Calvin is more deserving than other teams that got in, because Calvin lost some games they should have won, but it seems to me there should be room in the tournament for a team like Calvin, which went 19-8 and was the conference champion of the MIAA.

[oldknight]

This is probably a dumb question from a newby to the board like me, but why are there not 64 teams in the tournament? Why not have 64 teams who all play a first round game, instead of giving 4 teams a bye? I'm not saying Calvin is more deserving than other teams that got in, because Calvin lost some games they should have won, but it seems to me there should be room in the tournament for a team like Calvin, which went 19-8 and was the conference champion of the MIAA.

An even bigger headscratcher for me is why the women's tournament has 63 teams. Would it be too much to ask the NCAA to add one more team?

[fantastic50]

The field size is determined by a formula.  I believe that it's one tournament berth for every 6.5 teams (and only full members, not provisional new members) competing in a given sport in D3.  It does seem silly to me, too, but that's how it's determined.

[hope1]

i think also if calvin  would have beaten  kzoo     then i think calvin would have beein in it

[David Collinge]

This is probably a dumb question from a newby to the board like me, but why are there not 64 teams in the tournament? Why not have 64 teams who all play a first round game, instead of giving 4 teams a bye? I'm not saying Calvin is more deserving than other teams that got in, because Calvin lost some games they should have won, but it seems to me there should be room in the tournament for a team like Calvin, which went 19-8 and was the conference champion of the MIAA.

An even bigger headscratcher for me is why the women's tournament has 63 teams. Would it be too much to ask the NCAA to add one more team?

They are adding a 64th team for next year's tournament.  The reason that there's 63 women's teams vs. just 60 for the men is that there are more schools with women's teams than men's.  In fact, I believe there are more women's hoops teams than any other sport.

[KnightSlappy]

GL Region rankings through games of Monday, 12/14/2009.

REG   #   WP      OWP     OOWP    RPI     NAT   Pool      REG   OVR   Team
GL   01   1.000   0.833   0.579   .8114   001   A   C     2-0   5-3   Hope
GL   02   1.000   0.698   0.565   .7402   002   A   C     7-0   8-1   Wilmington
GL   03   0.714   0.707   0.545   .6685   013   C   004   5-2   5-3   Mount Union
GL   04   0.750   0.674   0.539   .6591   020   C   008   6-2   6-2   John Carroll
GL   05   0.000   1.000   0.625   .6563   022   C   010   0-1   2-5   Calvin
GL   06   0.714   0.676   0.541   .6521   025   C   011   5-2   6-2   Case Western Reserve
GL   07   0.857   0.524   0.575   .6199   041   A   C     6-1   6-1   Frostburg State
GL   08   0.714   0.633   0.496   .6192   042   C   019   5-2   5-2   Penn State-Behrend
GL   09   0.667   0.606   0.531   .6025   057   A         4-2   4-3   Hiram

Pool:   A   Top ranked team in Pool A eligible conference                     
   B   Pool B eligible team                     
   C   At large candidate                     
   N/A   Not eligible for postseason participation                     
                           
A Status:      Rank in Pool (C or B)                     
   C   Pool A candidate, would rank within top 19 of Pool C                      
   C-2   2nd tier Pool A candidate, would rank 20-29 of Pool C                      
   Blank   Ranks outside of the top 29 of Pool C                     

The Great Lakes currently projects 10 teams into the tournament, most of any region, but there's still a long way to go.

[KnightSlappy]

GL Region rankings through (most) games of Monday, 12/21/2009.

REG   #   WP      OWP     OOWP    RPI      NAT   Pool      REG   OVR   CONF     Team
GL   01   1.000   0.833   0.591   0.8144   001   A   C     2-0   5-3   MIAA     Hope
GL   02   1.000   0.582   0.545   0.6772   009   A   C     8-0   9-1   OAC      Wilmington
GL   03   0.000   1.000   0.625   0.6563   020   C   008   0-1   3-5   MIAA     Calvin
GL   04   0.778   0.600   0.541   0.6297   031   C   012   7-2   7-2   OAC      John Carroll
GL   05   0.625   0.691   0.502   0.6272   034   C   014   5-3   5-4   OAC      Mount Union
GL   06   0.714   0.641   0.507   0.6259   035   C   015   5-2   6-2   UAA      Case Western Reserve
GL   07   0.857   0.535   0.566   0.6231   036   A   C     6-1   6-1   AMCC     Frostburg State
GL   08   0.714   0.633   0.494   0.6187   040   C   018   5-2   5-2   AMCC     Penn State-Behrend
GL   09   0.571   0.673   0.482   0.6000   062   C   034   4-3   4-3   UAA      Carnegie Mellon
      
Pool:    A   Top ranked team in Pool A eligible conference                     
         B   Pool B eligible team                     
         C   At large candidate                     
         N/A   Not eligible for postseason participation                     
                                 
      B or C #      Rank in Pool (C or B)                     
                                 
      A Status:   C   Pool A candidate, would rank within top 19 of Pool C                      
         C-2   2nd tier Pool A candidate, would rank 20-29 of Pool C                      
         Blank   Ranks outside of the top 29 of Pool C                     

Notes:

• Still projecting 10 Great Lakes teams in the tournament, but it's still very early (see Calvin below).
• Win or Lose, it looks like Calvin will fall out of the rankings after the 12/29 matchup with Ohio Northern.
• Wooster comes in ranked #11 in the GL, top in the NCAC.
• Washington and Jefferson tops the PrAC eligible teams at #18.