Great Lakes Region

[Mr. Ypsi]

How many of the HCAC schools in IN are within the 200 mile rule for Calvin or Hope?

I think just Anderson and Manchester...however, if it's regional games you're looking for, any school in Indiana would count as Indiana and Michigan are in the same administrative region. 

Only Manchester, Anderson is 230 miles + from Holland, further from Grand Rapids.

Still, ALL Indiana and Ohio schools are 'in region', (though often VERY far away).

It's a shame the NCAA won't carve out some specific, limited exemptions.  In the MIAA case, that would be Chicago-land schools are automatically in region.

[wally_wabash]

How many of the HCAC schools in IN are within the 200 mile rule for Calvin or Hope?

I think just Anderson and Manchester...however, if it's regional games you're looking for, any school in Indiana would count as Indiana and Michigan are in the same administrative region. 

Only Manchester, Anderson is 230 miles + from Holland, further from Grand Rapids.

To be fair, I didn't do road miles...I just drew a 200 mile radius around GR and Holland.  Anderson was close to the edge...not surprised the road miles go a little over 200.  Either way, Anderson is in region. 

It is a little silly that MIAA teams can't get regional results from games against the CCIW.  It wasn't long ago that they changed the regional criteria to include these administrative regions...why not let regional games include games played against teams from states that you share a border with?  Essentially the same idea as the administrative regions, but doesn't cut teams off arbitrarily.  Does that make too much sense? 

[Mr. Ypsi]

How many of the HCAC schools in IN are within the 200 mile rule for Calvin or Hope?

I think just Anderson and Manchester...however, if it's regional games you're looking for, any school in Indiana would count as Indiana and Michigan are in the same administrative region. 

Only Manchester, Anderson is 230 miles + from Holland, further from Grand Rapids.

To be fair, I didn't do road miles...I just drew a 200 mile radius around GR and Holland.  Anderson was close to the edge...not surprised the road miles go a little over 200.  Either way, Anderson is in region. 

It is a little silly that MIAA teams can't get regional results from games against the CCIW.  It wasn't long ago that they changed the regional criteria to include these administrative regions...why not let regional games include games played against teams from states that you share a border with?  Essentially the same idea as the administrative regions, but doesn't cut teams off arbitrarily.  Does that make too much sense? 

That still wouldn't work for MIAA and Chicago - Indiana gets in the way!

Although, if they recognized state boundaries that are out in Lake Michigan ...!

[ScotsFan]

When has the NCAA done anything that made too much sense wrt D3 athletics?     I mean, what doesn't make sense to include Puerto Rico and the wealth of D3 programs they have to offer in our administrative region, and leave out the Chicagoland and their sparse availability of D3 programs in proximity to the D3 Siberia that is the MIAA??? 

[sac]

How many of the HCAC schools in IN are within the 200 mile rule for Calvin or Hope?

I think just Anderson and Manchester...however, if it's regional games you're looking for, any school in Indiana would count as Indiana and Michigan are in the same administrative region. 

Only Manchester, Anderson is 230 miles + from Holland, further from Grand Rapids.

To be fair, I didn't do road miles...I just drew a 200 mile radius around GR and Holland.  Anderson was close to the edge...not surprised the road miles go a little over 200.  Either way, Anderson is in region. 

It is a little silly that MIAA teams can't get regional results from games against the CCIW.  It wasn't long ago that they changed the regional criteria to include these administrative regions...why not let regional games include games played against teams from states that you share a border with?  Essentially the same idea as the administrative regions, but doesn't cut teams off arbitrarily.  Does that make too much sense? 

This is actually how D2 does it with special provisions for some of their more isolated states........including Michigan and Minnesota which they allow as in-region.

D2 is of course much smaller but their conferences are generally larger...meaning more games already built in.

[cave2bens]

Coming into this discussion late, it is not my intention to be argumentative but one other HCAC school is within 200 miles of all the MIAA schools, and that is Defiance.
The furthest distance is 198 miles from campus to campus with Hope.

The joys of many years as a med rep covering so MI, no IN and nw OH and mileage declarations for IRS calculations and Runzheimer.  Thank you Rand McNally road calculator. 

[sac]

Coming into this discussion late, it is not my intention to be argumentative but one other HCAC school is within 200 miles of all the MIAA schools, and that is Defiance.
The furthest distance is 198 miles from campus to campus with Hope.

The joys of many years as a med rep covering so MI, no IN and nw OH and mileage declarations for IRS calculations and Runzheimer.  Thank you Rand McNally road calculator. 

Yeah it is, but the question was about the Indiana schools, not the Hearland Conference schools.

[cave2bens]

I realize that was "Realist's" original inquiry, Sac.  Response was aimed toward lamentations about lack of opportunity for in-region possibilities on pages 33 and 34 and not a back-handed slight to either a fellow caveman or yourself.

[realist]

Sorry about the dustup.  I forgot about the administrative region aspect, and knew the status of Defiance.   
I have always thought that the state borders concept was highly arbitarary.  If the goal is to help establish larger "in region" areas for teams  my thought is why not use a different base criteria for who is "in region" for each school.  Simply say the nearest 75 or 100 D3 schools to your school (by road miles) are your "in region" eligible opponents. 
Using this method every school falls under the same standard, and arcane boundaries do not exist.

[KnightSlappy]

Sorry about the dustup.  I forgot about the administrative region aspect, and knew the status of Defiance.   
I have always thought that the state borders concept was highly arbitarary.  If the goal is to help establish larger "in region" areas for teams  my thought is why not use a different base criteria for who is "in region" for each school.  Simply say the nearest 75 or 100 D3 schools to your school (by road miles) are your "in region" eligible opponents. 
Using this method every school falls under the same standard, and arcane boundaries do not exist.

I thought of this too, but it really would be an administrative nightmare. It would (probably) take lots of work to get this right, and it would have to be repeated every year as teams join (or leave) d3.

I really like the adjoining state rule, similar to D2.

I can just imagine, though, that if D3 adds an adjoining state rule, they wont coun't the MI/IL border in the lake. Then Carthage would become in region for Calvin, but that darned Wheaton game still wouldn't count! 

[northb]

Sorry about the dustup.  I forgot about the administrative region aspect, and knew the status of Defiance.   
I have always thought that the state borders concept was highly arbitarary.  If the goal is to help establish larger "in region" areas for teams  my thought is why not use a different base criteria for who is "in region" for each school.  Simply say the nearest 75 or 100 D3 schools to your school (by road miles) are your "in region" eligible opponents. 
Using this method every school falls under the same standard, and arcane boundaries do not exist.

One concern is that a game might be in-region for one school, but not for the other! 

[KnightSlappy]

Here's what the region looks like through the weekend:

REG   #   WP      OWP     OOWP    SOS     RPI50   RPI     NAT   Pool        REG     OVR   CONF     Team
GL   01   0.850   0.501   0.508   0.504   0.677   0.590   021   A   C      17-3    17-4   NCAC     Wooster
GL   02   0.833   0.522   0.506   0.516   0.675   0.596   022   A   C      10-2    15-6   MIAA     Hope
GL   03   0.750   0.547   0.492   0.529   0.639   0.584   047   C   014     9-3    13-8   MIAA     Calvin
GL   04   0.722   0.570   0.510   0.550   0.636   0.593   050   A   C      13-5    15-5   OAC      John Carroll
GL   05   0.737   0.520   0.528   0.523   0.630   0.576   057   C   021    14-5    15-6   OAC      Wilmington
GL   06   0.762   0.480   0.506   0.489   0.625   0.557   061   A   C-2    16-5    16-5   PrAC     Thomas More
GL   07   0.722   0.495   0.492   0.494   0.608   0.551   075   C   037    13-5    13-6   AMCC     Penn State-Behrend
GL   08   0.706   0.506   0.470   0.494   0.600   0.547   086   C   046    12-5    16-5   NCAC     Wittenberg
GL   09   0.737   0.442   0.500   0.461   0.599   0.530   089   C   049    14-5    14-6   PrAC     Bethany
      
Pool:   A   Top ranked team in Pool A eligible conference                              
         B   Pool B eligible team                              
         C   At large candidate                              
         N/A   Not eligible for postseason participation                              
                                          
      B or C #      Rank in Pool (C or B)                              
                                          
      A Status:   C   Pool A candidate, would rank within top 19 of Pool C                               
         C-2   2nd tier Pool A candidate, would rank 20-29 of Pool C                               
         Blank   Ranks outside of the top 29 of Pool C                              
                                          
      RPI50:   50% WP and 50% SOS                                 
      RPI:   25% WP and 75% SOS                                 
                                          
      Updated:   2/7/2010                                 


Wooster's schedule strength comes up a bit, though I wouldn't say they're a lock to hold on to the top spot when the rankings come out on Wednesday. I still think Hope compares very favorably.

Wilmington falls to John Carrol, and Calvin drops one to Olivet. Penn State Behrend loses both games, they likely won't be ranked this week.

Wooster, Hope, Calvin, John Carroll, Wilmington, and Thomas More should be our six ranked teams. Not sure though where Calvin will rank with respect to JCU and Wilmington, but I do like the order that is listed above.

[ChicagoHopeNut]

Here's what the region looks like through the weekend:

REG   #   WP      OWP     OOWP    SOS     RPI50   RPI     NAT   Pool        REG     OVR   CONF     Team
GL   01   0.850   0.501   0.508   0.504   0.677   0.590   021   A   C      17-3    17-4   NCAC     Wooster
GL   02   0.833   0.522   0.506   0.516   0.675   0.596   022   A   C      10-2    15-6   MIAA     Hope
GL   03   0.750   0.547   0.492   0.529   0.639   0.584   047   C   014     9-3    13-8   MIAA     Calvin
GL   04   0.722   0.570   0.510   0.550   0.636   0.593   050   A   C      13-5    15-5   OAC      John Carroll
GL   05   0.737   0.520   0.528   0.523   0.630   0.576   057   C   021    14-5    15-6   OAC      Wilmington
GL   06   0.762   0.480   0.506   0.489   0.625   0.557   061   A   C-2    16-5    16-5   PrAC     Thomas More
GL   07   0.722   0.495   0.492   0.494   0.608   0.551   075   C   037    13-5    13-6   AMCC     Penn State-Behrend
GL   08   0.706   0.506   0.470   0.494   0.600   0.547   086   C   046    12-5    16-5   NCAC     Wittenberg
GL   09   0.737   0.442   0.500   0.461   0.599   0.530   089   C   049    14-5    14-6   PrAC     Bethany
      
Pool:   A   Top ranked team in Pool A eligible conference                              
         B   Pool B eligible team                              
         C   At large candidate                              
         N/A   Not eligible for postseason participation                              
                                          
      B or C #      Rank in Pool (C or B)                              
                                          
      A Status:   C   Pool A candidate, would rank within top 19 of Pool C                               
         C-2   2nd tier Pool A candidate, would rank 20-29 of Pool C                               
         Blank   Ranks outside of the top 29 of Pool C                              
                                          
      RPI50:   50% WP and 50% SOS                                 
      RPI:   25% WP and 75% SOS                                 
                                          
      Updated:   2/7/2010                                 


Wooster's schedule strength comes up a bit, though I wouldn't say they're a lock to hold on to the top spot when the rankings come out on Wednesday. I still think Hope compares very favorably.

Wilmington falls to John Carrol, and Calvin drops one to Olivet. Penn State Behrend loses both games, they likely won't be ranked this week.

Wooster, Hope, Calvin, John Carroll, Wilmington, and Thomas More should be our six ranked teams. Not sure though where Calvin will rank with respect to JCU and Wilmington, but I do like the order that is listed above.

Thanks for your work KnightSlappy.

I definitely think we'll see Wooster at 1 and Hope at 2.  After that it'll get a little more interesting. I think Hope and Calvin fans should already start rooting hard for Wooster to win the automatic bid in the NCAC if they want a Pool C to go to the MIAA.

[KnightSlappy]

Thanks for your work KnightSlappy.

I definitely think we'll see Wooster at 1 and Hope at 2.  After that it'll get a little more interesting. I think Hope and Calvin fans should already start rooting hard for Wooster to win the automatic bid in the NCAC if they want a Pool C to go to the MIAA.

Wooster will be in even if they falter in the NCAC tournament, but your point is very well understood. The MIAA doesn't have a strong case for an at large bid, so they (Calvin and/or Hope) will need to get "on the table" as soon as possible. They would be well served to also remain ahead of the OAC schools as well. You don't want to get stuck behind anyone with any sort of question mark or you may miss your opportunity to get selected.

In a perfect world (for the MIAA) Calvin or Hope would be first on the table for the Great Lakes region. If that's the case, I think they get their second team into the tournament.

[ScotsFan]

I agree about Wooster being pretty safe for a Pool C at this point.  I also don't see what would cause Hope to jump Wooster in this week's GL rankings?  Hope's wins were against winless Alma and Olivet who is now under .500 in-region record wise, while both of Wooster's wins came against teams with over .500 in-region records.  In fact, Wabash had an in region win percentage of over .700 before their loss to Wooster yesterday dropped them back to .680.  Hardly reason for the ranking committee to make a change at the top if you ask me.

The question I have would be, is the OAC going to have a case for a Pool C candidate? 

If both JCU and Wilma win out in their 4 remaining regular season games, they should both be in a pretty strong position to vie for a Pool C bid coming out of the GL I would think.  Granted, that is a big if, but both are capable of winning out and by doing so, I think would come really close to passing Calvin and maybe even Hope because of the tougher opponents in the OAC they face coming down the stretch.