Great Lakes Region

[wally_wabash]

The percentage is actually 70% in region games - I wish it was 75... but it is 70.

25 x .7 = 17.5   rounded up to 18
25 x .75 = 18.5  rounded up to 19

because that 1 game makes all the difference?

There are more sports than basketball... and I think that one game will keep teams from being more travel crazy. I also wanted it more than 75%... so like 20 games.

What's wrong with traveling if a program has the means and desire to do so?  Doesn't interregional play help give us some points of reference when trying to flesh out a field for a national tournament?

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I worry that the schools that can afford to play where ever they want will do so... basically ignoring the teams in their backyards who can't afford the travel... and thus setting up scenarios where some schools can't fill their schedules with quality opponents because those quality opponents are more interested in spending their money to travel out of the region.

[ziggy]

The percentage is actually 70% in region games - I wish it was 75... but it is 70.

25 x .7 = 17.5   rounded up to 18
25 x .75 = 18.5  rounded up to 19

because that 1 game makes all the difference?

There are more sports than basketball... and I think that one game will keep teams from being more travel crazy. I also wanted it more than 75%... so like 20 games.

What's wrong with traveling if a program has the means and desire to do so?  Doesn't interregional play help give us some points of reference when trying to flesh out a field for a national tournament?

This is a perfect time to point out that Hope and Calvin can play at Mississippi College for an in-region game but not the western suburbs of Chicago...

It all goes back to the philosophy of Division III, which is solid. They've just managed to bumble the way the philosophy is carried out with a set of rules that don't always make sense.

[smedindy]

However, uber regionality helps the NESCAC as they can fatten up on the good teams from sub-par conferences and increase their SOS by not really increasing their true strength-of-schedule at all.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

The percentage is actually 70% in region games - I wish it was 75... but it is 70.

25 x .7 = 17.5   rounded up to 18
25 x .75 = 18.5  rounded up to 19

because that 1 game makes all the difference?

There are more sports than basketball... and I think that one game will keep teams from being more travel crazy. I also wanted it more than 75%... so like 20 games.

What's wrong with traveling if a program has the means and desire to do so?  Doesn't interregional play help give us some points of reference when trying to flesh out a field for a national tournament?

This is a perfect time to point out that Hope and Calvin can play at Mississippi College for an in-region game but not the western suburbs of Chicago...

It all goes back to the philosophy of Division III, which is solid. They've just managed to bumble the way the philosophy is carried out with a set of rules that don't always make sense.

Talk to the college presidents... they control the ship.

[wally_wabash]

I worry that the schools that can afford to play where ever they want will do so... basically ignoring the teams in their backyards who can't afford the travel... and thus setting up scenarios where some schools can't fill their schedules with quality opponents because those quality opponents are more interested in spending their money to travel out of the region.

I would be surprised if that happened.  We've seen some realignment (specifically of teams out of the SCAC being the primary example) so that schools aren't spending a fortune on travel just to do it.  I think some schools will splurge occasionally, or maybe even annually, for a holiday trip to wherever might be fun (Vegas, SoCal, Bahamas, Crawfordsville, etc.).  For the most part, I think regional play is self-fulfilling.  Division III athletics departments aren't going to blow through a ton of cash and sacrifice a bunch of class days to send their hoops team on a November-December tour of the country to play non-league games...there's no margin in it. 

[iwumichigander]

I worry that the schools that can afford to play where ever they want will do so... basically ignoring the teams in their backyards who can't afford the travel... and thus setting up scenarios where some schools can't fill their schedules with quality opponents because those quality opponents are more interested in spending their money to travel out of the region.

I would be surprised if that happened.  We've seen some realignment (specifically of teams out of the SCAC being the primary example) so that schools aren't spending a fortune on travel just to do it.  I think some schools will splurge occasionally, or maybe even annually, for a holiday trip to wherever might be fun (Vegas, SoCal, Bahamas, Crawfordsville, etc.).  For the most part, I think regional play is self-fulfilling.  Division III athletics departments aren't going to blow through a ton of cash and sacrifice a bunch of class days to send their hoops team on a November-December tour of the country to play non-league games...there's no margin in it.

In some cases schools that travel do so not just because they can afford to do so.  It can be made necessary by 1) Quality in region opponents won't schedule you which can be the case of the so-called power conferences, 2) Scheduling the toughest competition you can find even when it may mean the game is not 'in-region' in order to get ready for power conference opponents

However, in some cases there is a margin in traveling playing non-league games which is usually for recruitment when an school draws from a national rather than a local geographic base - UAA as one example.

[wally_wabash]

1) Quality in region opponents won't schedule you which can be the case of the so-called power conferences

I know that this happens in football, but it makes sense.  One game is 10% of your profile and losing that one non-league game, plus whatever league game you lost that landed you in Pool C means that you're probably not getting in.  The risk of playing a super good team far outweighs the reward of maybe beating them in September.  Different story in hoops.  You've got 25 games to build a profile and there's way less risk in taking that game against a good in-region team.  Are there basketball teams out there that absolutely can't find anyone to pick up the phone when they call to try and schedule a game? 

2) Scheduling the toughest competition you can find even when it may mean the game is not 'in-region' in order to get ready for power conference opponents

Again, I don't think athletic departments are going to sending their basketball teams on a barnstorming tour of the country in November and December to play strong teams.  Also, as was noted earlier, you can't possibly know with a ton of certainty that the game across the country that you scheduled to play last year is going to match the expectation of quality. At least not certain enough to sink the funds into those kinds of trips. 

However, in some cases there is a margin in traveling playing non-league games which is usually for recruitment when an school draws from a national rather than a local geographic base - UAA as one example.

Understood about the UAA, but they're kind of their own special subset within D-III.  For the most part, D-III schools are clustered in groups of like-minded institutions with geographic proximity. 

I guess the question I'm having is this: is there a giant group of D-III hoops programs out there are silently grumbling that they are being handcuffed by regionality and would stick their teams on planes and send them all over the country for single non-league games if only the rules were more forgiving?  Maybe there is, I don't know. 

[Titan Q]

The percentage is actually 70% in region games - I wish it was 75... but it is 70.

25 x .7 = 17.5   rounded up to 18
25 x .75 = 18.5  rounded up to 19

because that 1 game makes all the difference?

There are more sports than basketball... and I think that one game will keep teams from being more travel crazy. I also wanted it more than 75%... so like 20 games.

What's wrong with traveling if a program has the means and desire to do so?  Doesn't interregional play help give us some points of reference when trying to flesh out a field for a national tournament?

This is a perfect time to point out that Hope and Calvin can play at Mississippi College for an in-region game but not the western suburbs of Chicago...

It all goes back to the philosophy of Division III, which is solid. They've just managed to bumble the way the philosophy is carried out with a set of rules that don't always make sense.

Talk to the college presidents... they control the ship.

Dave, I don't think the beef is with Division III philosophy (which the college presidents set).  It's with the administration of the philosophy.  As said above...

"It all goes back to the philosophy of Division III, which is solid. They've just managed to bumble the way the philosophy is carried out with a set of rules that don't always make sense."

Today, Wheaton can travel 2000 miles to L.A. to play an in-region game vs Occidental...but a game at Calvin (203 miles away) is out-of-region.

[Titan Q]

I worry that the schools that can afford to play where ever they want will do so... basically ignoring the teams in their backyards who can't afford the travel... and thus setting up scenarios where some schools can't fill their schedules with quality opponents because those quality opponents are more interested in spending their money to travel out of the region.

I don't think this actually happens, Dave.

[ziggy]

I worry that the schools that can afford to play where ever they want will do so... basically ignoring the teams in their backyards who can't afford the travel... and thus setting up scenarios where some schools can't fill their schedules with quality opponents because those quality opponents are more interested in spending their money to travel out of the region.

I don't think this actually happens, Dave.

Anything is possible in a world where Calvin and Elmhurst can suddenly grow an extra 2 miles apart in just a couple years to suddenly go from in-region to out-of-region.

[sac]

1) Quality in region opponents won't schedule you which can be the case of the so-called power conferences

I know that this happens in football, but it makes sense.  One game is 10% of your profile and losing that one non-league game, plus whatever league game you lost that landed you in Pool C means that you're probably not getting in.  The risk of playing a super good team far outweighs the reward of maybe beating them in September.  Different story in hoops.  You've got 25 games to build a profile and there's way less risk in taking that game against a good in-region team.  Are there basketball teams out there that absolutely can't find anyone to pick up the phone when they call to try and schedule a game? 

MIAA teams have a two or three weekend period in December when no D3 schools within 350 miles are available (except CCIW's) because conference play has started for those other schools.

[Charles]

However, uber regionality helps the NESCAC as they can fatten up on the good teams from sub-par conferences and increase their SOS by not really increasing their true strength-of-schedule at all.

Have you seen the SOSs of the NESCAC lately?
Wesleyan 119, Wiliams 134, Tufts 146, Hamilton 180 and Amherst at 185 none of them played a 19-0 WPI team which has a SOS of 256.

[iwumichigander]

1) Quality in region opponents won't schedule you which can be the case of the so-called power conferences

I know that this happens in football, but it makes sense.  One game is 10% of your profile and losing that one non-league game, plus whatever league game you lost that landed you in Pool C means that you're probably not getting in.  The risk of playing a super good team far outweighs the reward of maybe beating them in September.  Different story in hoops.  You've got 25 games to build a profile and there's way less risk in taking that game against a good in-region team.  Are there basketball teams out there that absolutely can't find anyone to pick up the phone when they call to try and schedule a game? 

MIAA teams have a two or three weekend period in December when no D3 schools within 350 miles are available (except CCIW's) because conference play has started for those other schools.

And, to follow up, top power conference teams are not looking for just anyone.  I don't want to play cupcakes. Examples citied by TitanQ and SAC above are good ones.  And, to answer your question - Yes on occasion.

[smedindy]

Will the top power conference teams not play a good team that could beat them, like the D-1 power conferences avoid teams like Creighton and VCU?