Great Lakes Region

[ziggy]

ziggy noticed that the data sheets are live at the bottom of the NCAA's rankings page. It appears they have neglected to count the Hope-Covenant game as in-region.

Link?

http://web1.ncaa.org/champsel_new/exec/pdf/staticpdfrank?doWhat=publicrankings&sportCode=MBB&region=30&division=3

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Or more appropriately: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2013/02/06/ncaa-regional-rankings-week-1/

[sac]

You are all welcome to listen to the hoopsville interview with national chair Mike DeWitt, particularly his thoughts on what matters most in rankings.  Starts at about 25 minutes, the most pertinent part is at the 30 minute mark and especially again at about 35 minutes.

http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2012-13/jan17


I have total faith in a system that thinks a 3 loss team should be ranked 3 spots higher than a 0 loss team who is 3-0 vs 1-2 against common opponents 


btw the UAA gets 5 teams ranked, one of them is 14-7, no other conference gets to have this advantage and that's just wrong.

[sac]

I guess Thomas More should be thankful their loss to Miami-Middletown doesn't count against them, which it would have back in the days of smoke filled rooms and common sense.   Miami-Middletown 19-6, play in the Ohio Regional Campus League.  Not even affiliated with anyone.

Calvin has zero losses against a schedule others feel is weak.

Thomas More has 2 losses, one of them to Washington and Jefferson, 8-15 on the season.  Here's Calvin's two scores against 8-14 Alma  86-63, 90-66, against 6-16 North Park 83-54, against 9-13 Anderson 98-56, against 7-15 Wabash 83-56, I'll even throw 12-9 Ripon in with these guys 87-62.

.......not even challenged.

[sac]

Freshly ranked #6 Marietta went down 70-67 to Capital last night in Marietta.

so to recap

at Capital......Marietta 69 Capital 68
at Marietta....Capital 70 Marietta 67 OT

This gives Capital a one game lead in the OAC standings over Marietta and BW.  The schedule is pretty favorable to Capital

Capital     @Otterbein, Muskingum, Ohio Northern
Marietta   Bald-Wallace, @ Mt.Union, @ John Carroll
Bald-Wall   @ Marietta, Heidelberg, Muskingum

Regardless of the BW/Mar outcome, Marietta will be no worse than the two seed in the OAC tournament.   The rest is a mess.

[KnightSlappy]

You are all welcome to listen to the hoopsville interview with national chair Mike DeWitt, particularly his thoughts on what matters most in rankings.  Starts at about 25 minutes, the most pertinent part is at the 30 minute mark and especially again at about 35 minutes.

http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2012-13/jan17


I have total faith in a system that thinks a 3 loss team should be ranked 3 spots higher than a 0 loss team who is 3-0 vs 1-2 against common opponents 


btw the UAA gets 5 teams ranked, one of them is 14-7, no other conference gets to have this advantage and that's just wrong.

This is why coaches/committee members revert to coachspeak. Because we hold their candor against them. (Not to pick on you, I'm also self-reflecting here).

[sac]

Starting lineups for Thomas More and Calvin........yeah this would go well

Thomas More
DeCarlo Hayes   5-11
Spencer Berlecamp  6-0
Drew Mumford 6-2
Brandon Housley 6-2
Joseph Marshall 6-1
Bench:  5-8, 6-0, 6-2, 6-4

Calvin
David Rietema  6-1
Jordan Brink 6-3
Tom Snikkers  6-4
Tyler Dykstra  6-8
Tyler Kruis 6-9
Bench 6-1, 6-7, 6-4, 6-9, 6-4

[Titan Q]

btw the UAA gets 5 teams ranked, one of them is 14-7, no other conference gets to have this advantage and that's just wrong.

Considering that it's pretty clear that not just wins vs regionally ranked teams are significant, but games played, think of how much of an advantage this is for the UAA.  If you are one of those 5 ranked UAA teams (across 4 regions) you are now guaranteed to have 8 games played vs regionally ranked in your ledger on selection day.  Down at the end of the Pool C bubble (say spots 15-19), where things like winning % and OWP are sort of a push, that's just a huge advantage.

The CCIW has four ranked in the Midwest (and did last year as well), and I'm sure the WIAC and ODAC have had 4 ranked in the West and South respectively over the years...and others too.  But I can't imagine in a league where all of the teams are in the same region (95% of D3 leagues?) - that 5 different teams would get regionally ranked.

I also know the UAA is great this year - maybe the best league.  But this is definitely an advantage for them.

[KnightSlappy]

btw the UAA gets 5 teams ranked, one of them is 14-7, no other conference gets to have this advantage and that's just wrong.

Considering that it's pretty clear that not just wins vs regionally ranked teams are significant, but games played, think of how much of an advantage this is for the UAA.  If you are one of those 5 ranked UAA teams (across 4 regions) you are now guaranteed to have 8 games played vs regionally ranked in your ledger on selection day.  Down at the end of the Pool C bubble (say spots 15-19), where things like winning % and OWP are sort of a push, that's just a huge advantage.

The CCIW has four ranked in the Midwest (and did last year as well), and I'm sure the WIAC and ODAC have had 4 ranked in the West and South respectively over the years...and others too.  But I can't imagine in a league where all of the teams are in the same region (95% of D3 leagues?) - that 5 different teams would get regionally ranked.

I also know the UAA is great this year - maybe the best league.  But this is definitely an advantage for them.

Is the regional ranking format going to change next year when all D3 games "count" the same?

[smedindy]

Starting lineups for Thomas More and Calvin........yeah this would go well

Thomas More
DeCarlo Hayes   5-11
Spencer Berlecamp  6-0
Drew Mumford 6-2
Brandon Housley 6-2
Joseph Marshall 6-1
Bench:  5-8, 6-0, 6-2, 6-4

Calvin
David Rietema  6-1
Jordan Brink 6-3
Tom Snikkers  6-4
Tyler Dykstra  6-8
Tyler Kruis 6-9
Bench 6-1, 6-7, 6-4, 6-9, 6-4

Please. Things could happen. Good little men beat good big men at times.

[smedindy]

I guess Thomas More should be thankful their loss to Miami-Middletown doesn't count against them, which it would have back in the days of smoke filled rooms and common sense.   Miami-Middletown 19-6, play in the Ohio Regional Campus League.  Not even affiliated with anyone.

Calvin has zero losses against a schedule others feel is weak.

There wasn't a lot of 'common sense' in those rooms, sir. There was favoritism and back slapping and quid pro quo. The opposite of common sense.

[smedindy]

btw the UAA gets 5 teams ranked, one of them is 14-7, no other conference gets to have this advantage and that's just wrong.

How is it wrong if they are deserving of being ranked? Appling to appling, maybe those 5 teams are amongst the best 40 or so. Yeah, NYU is in a weak region, but I've always thought some of the NE should move to the East.

[ziggy]

btw the UAA gets 5 teams ranked, one of them is 14-7, no other conference gets to have this advantage and that's just wrong.

How is it wrong if they are deserving of being ranked? Appling to appling, maybe those 5 teams are amongst the best 40 or so. Yeah, NYU is in a weak region, but I've always thought some of the NE should move to the East.

I'm on the fence about this. If you look at NYU, they clearly deserve to be ranked since they have a crazy-high SOS and a WP that is in the ballpark of others in their region below the top two. The problem is that the rankings fit them into their region when their schedule is a-regional and really bares no resemblance to that of those they are in competition for regionally. It's really an issue with the UAA, which flies in the face of the overall D3 philosophy.

[hotdawg]

It looks like the regional reporting forms which break down SOS regional record etc... that are linked on the D3 regional rankings page is from 2012. Anyone of a link to the current ones?

[smedindy]

btw the UAA gets 5 teams ranked, one of them is 14-7, no other conference gets to have this advantage and that's just wrong.

How is it wrong if they are deserving of being ranked? Appling to appling, maybe those 5 teams are amongst the best 40 or so. Yeah, NYU is in a weak region, but I've always thought some of the NE should move to the East.

I'm on the fence about this. If you look at NYU, they clearly deserve to be ranked since they have a crazy-high SOS and a WP that is in the ballpark of others in their region below the top two. The problem is that the rankings fit them into their region when their schedule is a-regional and really bares no resemblance to that of those they are in competition for regionally. It's really an issue with the UAA, which flies in the face of the overall D3 philosophy.

But then, having the UAA is good for D-3 as a whole. Those institutions add more to us than they take away with their national approach. And as many advantages they have in hoops, perhaps, they have none in football.