Great Lakes Region

[HOPEful]

Text of conversation:
Thomas More:  hey, you know we're looking for a new conference what do you think?
MIAA:  You're in Kentucky   <click>

Not to mention a Catholic College, which to millennials like myself matters little, but may not sit as well with the seasoned and staunchest of Dutch Reformed at Hope and calvin. I can't really envision anyone in the MIAA arguing that adding Thomas More would be good for the conference.

[AndOne]

A Catholic school has been trying to get into the CCIW for years, and hasn't even been able to get a little toe in the door let alone a whole foot! 

[KnightSlappy]

Text of conversation:
Thomas More:  hey, you know we're looking for a new conference what do you think?
MIAA:  You're in Kentucky   <click>

Not to mention a Catholic College, which to millennials like myself matters little, but may not sit as well with the seasoned and staunchest of Dutch Reformed at Hope and calvin. I can't really envision anyone in the MIAA arguing that adding Thomas More would be good for the conference.

[sac]

and Hope just hired a guy to handle on campus Catholic services for students.   

[gordonmann]

D3football had a podcast where Pat Coleman and Adam Turer discussed Thomas More and it was implied strongly that the MIAA and TMC had conversations about a move, but it isn't going to happen.

OAC would be fun for football and women's basketball. NCAC would be fun for football and men's basketball. HCAC probably makes the most sense geographically.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

D3football had a podcast where Pat Coleman and Adam Turer discussed Thomas More and it was implied strongly that the MIAA and TMC had conversations about a move, but it isn't going to happen.

OAC would be fun for football and women's basketball. NCAC would be fun for football and men's basketball. HCAC probably makes the most sense geographically.

SMH that's where I was hearing it. My summer has been a blur.

[pghome]

It is my understanding that Thomas More has sent a letter of interest to the OAC. Do I think it's something that happens? Probably not as I don't believe schools in the conference want 11 members. The only scenario I can imagine working out from here is that Wilmington has a desire to go back to the Heartland and is accepted back making room for Thomas More (not completely out of the question in my opinion).

I am willing to bet TMC has sent an letter of interest to a number of conferences. I am not surprised in the least OAC got one. I am sure they sent another (or continued conversations) to the MIAA. I am sure the NCAC and the HCAC also got letters.

And who knows... now-a-days, 11 members isn't as bad a deal as it used to be. Unbalanced schedules are also starting to become a bit more normal - or at least discussed.

Given one of the main reasons cited for leaving the PAC was the amount of travel involved for TMC for away games, the MIAA wouldn't make much sense.  Joining the MIAA would actually increase their travel requirements.  The closest PAC school to TMC is Bethany at 255 miles while the closest MIAA school would be Trine at around 230 miles. On the other hand, the furthest PAC school for TMC is St Vincent at 330 miles, while Calvin, Hope and Alma all exceed 370 miles.  The NCAC also doesn't seem very plausible either, since TMC doesn't fit the institutional profile.

The conferences that make sense would be the OAC or HCAC, with the HCAC being the best from a geographical standpoint and it would also provide an instant rival in Mt St Joseph.

[Fixed formatting/pc]

[Pat Coleman]

Thomas More tried to get into the HCAC for a long time and failed. I'd be surprised if enough personnel over there have changed over for there to be a change of heart. Not that long ago Mount St. Joseph pulled out of its rivalry football game with Thomas More, so I'd be surprised if there were less bad blood now.

[HOPEful]

Thomas More tried to get into the HCAC for a long time and failed. I'd be surprised if enough personnel over there have changed over for there to be a change of heart. Not that long ago Mount St. Joseph pulled out of its rivalry football game with Thomas More, so I'd be surprised if there were less bad blood now.

It really feels like pulling out of the PAC was a knee jerk reaction. Even if it were deemed necessary, I would think a lot of leg work could/should have been done in advance. Now it appears as though it's OAC or Independent, and I don't see the OAC accepting TMC without dropping a member. Is it possible Wilmington would return to the HCAC if given the opportunity? Maybe. Is it possible TMC had some or all of these conversations prior to announcing leaving the PAC. Sure. But it seems like a lot of ducks to get in a row to avoid being an Independent and that the rumor mill would be spinning faster if there was already a plan in the works.

[Fifth and Putnam]

Thomas More tried to get into the HCAC for a long time and failed. I'd be surprised if enough personnel over there have changed over for there to be a change of heart. Not that long ago Mount St. Joseph pulled out of its rivalry football game with Thomas More, so I'd be surprised if there were less bad blood now.

It really feels like pulling out of the PAC was a knee jerk reaction. Even if it were deemed necessary, I would think a lot of leg work could/should have been done in advance. Now it appears as though it's OAC or Independent, and I don't see the OAC accepting TMC without dropping a member. Is it possible Wilmington would return to the HCAC if given the opportunity? Maybe. Is it possible TMC had some or all of these conversations prior to announcing leaving the PAC. Sure. But it seems like a lot of ducks to get in a row to avoid being an Independent and that the rumor mill would be spinning faster if there was already a plan in the works.

My feeling of the situation was that TMC left on their own, but would have been forced out shortly after if they hadn't. I am not sure this is a situation they were necessarily ready for. The only way I see TMC joining the OAC is if another member makes a move to the HCAC (the common thought he is Wilmington which I agree with). It's been hinted to me that some at Wilmington may want to go back to the HCAC but I am not sure where those who make those decisions stand on that. If none of those pieces move, TMC might be stuck in a rough spot with no where to go.

[pghome]

Thomas More tried to get into the HCAC for a long time and failed. I'd be surprised if enough personnel over there have changed over for there to be a change of heart. Not that long ago Mount St. Joseph pulled out of its rivalry football game with Thomas More, so I'd be surprised if there were less bad blood now.

It really feels like pulling out of the PAC was a knee jerk reaction. Even if it were deemed necessary, I would think a lot of leg work could/should have been done in advance. Now it appears as though it's OAC or Independent, and I don't see the OAC accepting TMC without dropping a member. Is it possible Wilmington would return to the HCAC if given the opportunity? Maybe. Is it possible TMC had some or all of these conversations prior to announcing leaving the PAC. Sure. But it seems like a lot of ducks to get in a row to avoid being an Independent and that the rumor mill would be spinning faster if there was already a plan in the works.

My feeling of the situation was that TMC left on their own, but would have been forced out shortly after if they hadn't. I am not sure this is a situation they were necessarily ready for. The only way I see TMC joining the OAC is if another member makes a move to the HCAC (the common thought he is Wilmington which I agree with). It's been hinted to me that some at Wilmington may want to go back to the HCAC but I am not sure where those who make those decisions stand on that. If none of those pieces move, TMC might be stuck in a rough spot with no where to go.

I'm really baffled by the idea that TMC didn't have a predetermined place to land when they announced they were leaving the PAC.  Particularly since they asked the PAC to cut the normal 2 year waiting period down to 1.  I figured they already knew where they were going.  There were some rumors floating around that they might be moving up to DII. 

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Thomas More tried to get into the HCAC for a long time and failed. I'd be surprised if enough personnel over there have changed over for there to be a change of heart. Not that long ago Mount St. Joseph pulled out of its rivalry football game with Thomas More, so I'd be surprised if there were less bad blood now.

It really feels like pulling out of the PAC was a knee jerk reaction. Even if it were deemed necessary, I would think a lot of leg work could/should have been done in advance. Now it appears as though it's OAC or Independent, and I don't see the OAC accepting TMC without dropping a member. Is it possible Wilmington would return to the HCAC if given the opportunity? Maybe. Is it possible TMC had some or all of these conversations prior to announcing leaving the PAC. Sure. But it seems like a lot of ducks to get in a row to avoid being an Independent and that the rumor mill would be spinning faster if there was already a plan in the works.

My feeling of the situation was that TMC left on their own, but would have been forced out shortly after if they hadn't. I am not sure this is a situation they were necessarily ready for. The only way I see TMC joining the OAC is if another member makes a move to the HCAC (the common thought he is Wilmington which I agree with). It's been hinted to me that some at Wilmington may want to go back to the HCAC but I am not sure where those who make those decisions stand on that. If none of those pieces move, TMC might be stuck in a rough spot with no where to go.

I'm really baffled by the idea that TMC didn't have a predetermined place to land when they announced they were leaving the PAC.  Particularly since they asked the PAC to cut the normal 2 year waiting period down to 1.  I figured they already knew where they were going.  There were some rumors floating around that they might be moving up to DII.

Maybe now you are reading enough between the lines to understand what might have actually happened. Fifth alludes to it, but in the football room this has been discussed... the fact TMC left in less time than the 2 years usually required, didn't have a place to land, and now is rudderless is enough of a clue to see that maybe this wasn't really TMC's decision.

I know a recent article spins it that TMC was finally interested in going and made it sound like travel was one of the criteria. It is great spin. The travel equation was really from other conference members not interested in making the trip to TMC (especially to get their asses handed to them before heading home) than the other way around. Also, the women's basketball situation has left a very bitter taste in the mouth of a number of institutions in the PAC who were also getting their read ends handed to them on a regular basis. It all adds up pretty quick. The article has a lot of words that basically says nothing and certainly doesn't tell the true story going on.

Fifth alludes well that if TMC didn't leave on their own that they were probably going to get kicked out. I would take it a step further from what I have gathered and say this: TMC was going to leave the conference this summer whether they wanted to or not and no matter how the story was to be written. They could save face and make it seem like it was TMC's idea and the PAC wasn't getting in the way (nice compromise to help both parties) as was written ... or we were going to read a story about the PAC kicking TMC out. Conferences will do that from time to time... we don't have to go that far back in DIII history to see it.

We also know TMC absolutely danced with the MIAA recently, it just hasn't come together. I am not betting on it happening, but who knows. I don't think TMC is going to say no to a conference even if more travel is needed if it gets them into a conference.. especially a competitive one.

Personally, while I know the HCAC, OAC, and NCAC options don't seem realistic... that is where I think TMC heads unless something crazy happens and the SAA comes calling. I simply don't see DII working out (the costs alone aren't that great an option not to mention there isn't exactly any upside to the idea). TMC will find a home eventually... but they are going to have to suck up and deal with some challenges like travel to make it happen.

[Fifth and Putnam]

Thomas More tried to get into the HCAC for a long time and failed. I'd be surprised if enough personnel over there have changed over for there to be a change of heart. Not that long ago Mount St. Joseph pulled out of its rivalry football game with Thomas More, so I'd be surprised if there were less bad blood now.

It really feels like pulling out of the PAC was a knee jerk reaction. Even if it were deemed necessary, I would think a lot of leg work could/should have been done in advance. Now it appears as though it's OAC or Independent, and I don't see the OAC accepting TMC without dropping a member. Is it possible Wilmington would return to the HCAC if given the opportunity? Maybe. Is it possible TMC had some or all of these conversations prior to announcing leaving the PAC. Sure. But it seems like a lot of ducks to get in a row to avoid being an Independent and that the rumor mill would be spinning faster if there was already a plan in the works.

My feeling of the situation was that TMC left on their own, but would have been forced out shortly after if they hadn't. I am not sure this is a situation they were necessarily ready for. The only way I see TMC joining the OAC is if another member makes a move to the HCAC (the common thought he is Wilmington which I agree with). It's been hinted to me that some at Wilmington may want to go back to the HCAC but I am not sure where those who make those decisions stand on that. If none of those pieces move, TMC might be stuck in a rough spot with no where to go.

I'm really baffled by the idea that TMC didn't have a predetermined place to land when they announced they were leaving the PAC.  Particularly since they asked the PAC to cut the normal 2 year waiting period down to 1.  I figured they already knew where they were going.  There were some rumors floating around that they might be moving up to DII.

Maybe now you are reading enough between the lines to understand what might have actually happened. Fifth alludes to it, but in the football room this has been discussed... the fact TMC left in less time than the 2 years usually required, didn't have a place to land, and now is rudderless is enough of a clue to see that maybe this wasn't really TMC's decision.

I know a recent article spins it that TMC was finally interested in going and made it sound like travel was one of the criteria. It is great spin. The travel equation was really from other conference members not interested in making the trip to TMC (especially to get their asses handed to them before heading home) than the other way around. Also, the women's basketball situation has left a very bitter taste in the mouth of a number of institutions in the PAC who were also getting their read ends handed to them on a regular basis. It all adds up pretty quick. The article has a lot of words that basically says nothing and certainly doesn't tell the true story going on.

Fifth alludes well that if TMC didn't leave on their own that they were probably going to get kicked out. I would take it a step further from what I have gathered and say this: TMC was going to leave the conference this summer whether they wanted to or not and no matter how the story was to be written. They could save face and make it seem like it was TMC's idea and the PAC wasn't getting in the way (nice compromise to help both parties) as was written ... or we were going to read a story about the PAC kicking TMC out. Conferences will do that from time to time... we don't have to go that far back in DIII history to see it.

We also know TMC absolutely danced with the MIAA recently, it just hasn't come together. I am not betting on it happening, but who knows. I don't think TMC is going to say no to a conference even if more travel is needed if it gets them into a conference.. especially a competitive one.

Personally, while I know the HCAC, OAC, and NCAC options don't seem realistic... that is where I think TMC heads unless something crazy happens and the SAA comes calling. I simply don't see DII working out (the costs alone aren't that great an option not to mention there isn't exactly any upside to the idea). TMC will find a home eventually... but they are going to have to suck up and deal with some challenges like travel to make it happen.

The only reason I left the NCAC off the table was Thomas More does not fit the institutional model of the other schools (all 10 current members are Phi Beta Kappa members). Unless the conference wanted to make an exception to bring in TMC, they're not going to the NCAC. I think it's the HCAC or OAC for TMC unless as Dave mentioned the SAA happens.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I simply wasn't leaving any options off the table at this point... at least that make sense. I mean, I don't see TMC in the AMCC, CAC, ODAC... but felt the NCAC should at least remain in the conversation on the off-chance it might happen. I don't disagree with the read on the conference and such... but who knows at this point.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

The Division III basketball season has begun and tonight Hoopsville will hit the air for its 15th season!

In tonight's season premiere, Dave McHugh chats with the two preseason No. 1 teams, both national committee chairs, and gets an update on a new tournament featuring several Top 25 teams. Dave will also try and get everyone up to speed on the new season and take a look at what has already happened in early season games.

One thing fans may notice is no video for this season's debut. This is not a change in the production of the show, just a temporary decision. There has been a lot going on leading up to the premiere and not everything got up to speed in time. We hope to have actual video broadcasts return in short order. We appreciate everyone's patience.

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch the show LIVE staring at 7:00 p.m. ET here: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2017-18/nov16 --- or via the Facebook Live simulcast. If you missed any part of the show, you can watch it On Demand or listen to the podcast.

You can also send your questions to the show and have them featured on the Hoopsville Mailbag segment. Email them to hoopsville@d3hoops.com.

Guests include (in order of appearance):
- Bobbi Morgan, Haverford women's coach and DIII National Basketball Committee Chair
- Tim Pitzpatrick, U.S. Coast Guard Academy Athletics Director and DIII National Basketball Committee Chair
- Eric Bridgeland, No. 1 Whitman men's coach
- Carla Berube, No. 1 Tufts women's coach
- Ryan Whitnabe, Great Lakes podcaster and Great Lakes Invitational creator

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