Great Lakes Region

[sac]

Roanoke

[Pat Coleman]

Seems they did get the memo on Roanoke, since they changed it.

Listen -- you gotta remember that every system has a human element. We have games put into our system by human beings and they do too. Our human beings are imperfect and so are theirs. I happen to think ours are more dedicated to interpreting the rules correctly, but even so, we're not perfect.

I know you guys are bitter about Hope/Carthage but considering the state of the rules you had to assume it could be fixed at any time. And just because Indianapolis didn't post a memo to the message board doesn't mean for sure that it hasn't been communicated to the people that need to know.

[ScotsFan]

the committee didn't get the memo.

Seems to me they did get the memo as Carthage has never been denoted as a regional game this season which is as it should have been all along.  As far as Roanoke is concerned, I would just chalk that up to an honest mistake or an oversight.  Mistakes do happen.  As Pat said, these guys are human after all.  Nobody's perfect.  The important thing is it happened on the 1st poll which and was corrected by the 2nd poll and it really didn't make much of a difference as Wooster is still ranked ahead of Hope even with the Roanoke game included.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

the committee didn't get the memo.

Seems to me they did get the memo as Carthage has never been denoted as a regional game this season which is as it should have been all along.  As far as Roanoke is concerned, I would just chalk that up to an honest mistake or an oversight.  Mistakes do happen.  As Pat said, these guys are human after all.  Nobody's perfect.  The important thing is it happened on the 1st poll which and was corrected by the 2nd poll and it really didn't make much of a difference as Wooster is still ranked ahead of Hope even with the Roanoke game included.

Just realize that it's pretty hard to accept the "we're human" excuse, when your school is the one that has had to suffer the consequences of it for several years in a row. 

[hope1]

now with capital  losing wed night i think hope will jump wooster for 1st place in the region 

[Pat Coleman]

the committee didn't get the memo.

Seems to me they did get the memo as Carthage has never been denoted as a regional game this season which is as it should have been all along.  As far as Roanoke is concerned, I would just chalk that up to an honest mistake or an oversight.  Mistakes do happen.  As Pat said, these guys are human after all.  Nobody's perfect.  The important thing is it happened on the 1st poll which and was corrected by the 2nd poll and it really didn't make much of a difference as Wooster is still ranked ahead of Hope even with the Roanoke game included.

Just realize that it's pretty hard to accept the "we're human" excuse, when your school is the one that has had to suffer the consequences of it for several years in a row. 

In the grand scheme of things it's not really suffering.

[monsoon]

Just realize that it's pretty hard to accept the "we're human" excuse, when your school is the one that has had to suffer the consequences of it for several years in a row. 

In the grand scheme of things it's not really suffering.

In the grand scheme of things, most of this doesn't really matter - that's one of the nice things about sports, and these boards... it/they help us take a break from the grand scheme of things for a little while.  That doesn't negate FDF's point - "we're human" is a valid excuse on occasion; when it becomes a regular catch-phrase, then it's morphed from an excuse for a mistake to a phrase enabling sloppy work.  DIII athletes deserve better than the sloppy work we often see from the NCAA surrounding tournament issues.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Just realize that it's pretty hard to accept the "we're human" excuse, when your school is the one that has had to suffer the consequences of it for several years in a row. 

In the grand scheme of things it's not really suffering.

No, but are you willing to agree that Hope has had more than their share of these "mix-ups" and the associated frustration? 

[Pat Coleman]

On a national scale, no. You're not the only school that has to deal with this sort of thing. That's kinda what I'm getting at. One game that goes back and forth a couple times over four years? Ehh ... not sure that means the "woe is us" attitude is warranted.

Sorry -- but you guys already hate me anyway.

[smedindy]

It happens. It's not the worst thing the NCAA has done. Yeesh.

[NW Hope Fan]

My question has always been... How much has it helped or hurt us?

In '05/'06 It didn't count in region (I don't think). And we beat Carthage... We were fortunate to get first round games at Hope for the NCAA, but then had to travel to Witt. Would that have been different if that game counted??? I don't remember how the region stacked up, but Witt may have had the edge anyway.

Last season it counted in region and we lost... We then have to travel for the first round of the NCAA. Again, would this have been different if the loss didn't count?

This season again, that victory could have had ramifications on how the tournament is put together... We'll never know!

That I think is the biggest bummer!

[NW Hope Fan]

Sorry -- but you guys already hate me anyway.

Strong word choice Pat... but you're right... 

[Civic Minded]

That @#$# lunar eclipse...

[ChicagoHopeNut]

My two cents for what its worth is that when you have a dedicated, paid staff whose job it is to determine regional games, rankings, etc. then it is NOT acceptable to make errors again and again whether they affect the same teams year in and year out (carthage/hope) or affect a different group of teams every year. Last year they changed the number of Pool C bids in February! I mean that is beyond unacceptable in my book. Once again, these are paid staff at Indy. If this was a volunteer operation run by people in their free time I'd be far more forgiving.

The fact dedicated fans are catching these mistakes is a greater indictment on the NCAA. Yes, we've been fortunate that the mistakes were early and caught and corrected but since the final regional rankings our a secret and based on consistent mistakes I have minimal faith that the NCAA tourney brackets are correct across regions.

[Pat Coleman]

My two cents for what its worth is that when you have a dedicated, paid staff whose job it is to determine regional games, rankings, etc. then it is NOT acceptable to make errors again and again whether they affect the same teams year in and year out (carthage/hope) or affect a different group of teams every year.

Actually, I believe it's the schools' responsibility to put games into the system correctly in the first place and report their scores on a weekly basis. The coaches who are on the committee then do the checking. Many are not as well-versed in all the rules as we are.

Bottom line is, there is nobody "whose job it is to determine regional games." That's a responsibility many people share, some who are volunteers to the committee, some who are paid by the school and one who is paid by the NCAA to do a lot of things, not just make sure all 5,500 men's basketball games are properly input into the system.

Last year they changed the number of Pool C bids in February! I mean that is beyond unacceptable in my book. Once again, these are paid staff at Indy. If this was a volunteer operation run by people in their free time I'd be far more forgiving.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the NCAA changed its staff in charge of Division III men's basketball. I've referenced the personnel change over and over.