BB: E8: Empire 8

pudge27 · April 22, 2008, 08:02:44 PM

Boomer,
I don't think that anyone sees UR as a weak sister around here, but they just haven't closed out a season all the way in awhile. In fact, I think that UR's non-conference northern schedule is pretty tough. My points were more geared towards the difference in Southern trips. Tough loss today. I would have gotten a chuckle out of IC dropping one to the U.

Mahvin,
Everybody's going to have a couple of creampuffs on the southern trip for a number of reasons, but I still don't think that it's that easy to just get a top flight team to play you down south. Once you get up north, it's different. You play the best and closest non conference games because you want quality wins.

Viper,
If you'd really, truly never heard of IC the last time they won a NC, I don't think you can claim it.

scuba16 · April 22, 2008, 11:50:10 PM

The original post was simply to clear the air on Boomers misconception that U of R's schedule was anywhere close to Cortland's!
This has morphed into something bigger so to put this whole U of R, weak sister, who you play on your southern trip nonsense to rest and add a little perspective, I will drop some Division 3 baseball knowledge.

Take the southern trip and throw it in the garbage if you are U of R, who you played, who you beat, who you lost to, IT DOESN'T MATTER!
You gotta beat all or most of the NY region teams you play and win your conference!

I played at CF Cortland from 1993-1995 and we didn't play a national power type team in florida any of the years I played. We played whoever Coach Owens could schedule and that included D-1's -D-3's and all in between.
The focus of the southern trip was to get good enough to win the SUNYAC and get a regional bid, which in those days were only 4 for the NY region!
IC was a powerhouse like most of you have never seen and had 1 locked up because they were that good and thats where we(cortland) wanted to be.

Cortland wasn't the Cortland most of you know now and we had to win the SUNYAC and the ECAC in 1993 to get that bid. The SUNYAC did not get an automatic bid in those days! We won both, got a bid and played in the NY regional. We beat RPI and Doug Drumm in the 1st round and eventually got eliminated, but WE MADE THE REGIONAL, which was the goal from the beginning of the season.

In 1994, our goal was upgraded to making the regional again, which we did and naturally win the thing but unfortunately IC was a better club again but this year we won a couple more NY regional games and slightly inched closer to IC as a ball club.

1995, With the addition of some recruits, transfers and hard work, Cortland as you know it now is taking shape but IC still stands in the way. We win the SUNYAC, lose to IC twice in the regular season, 2 close games and make the regional. We lose the 1st game and win 5 in a row, eliminating IC on the way, to take the regional and on to the Series it is. Monkey off the back and Cortland Baseball has never looked back.

The moral of the story is U of R (or any other NY team that has Regional on the mind) needs to do whatever it takes to get into the regional 1st and foremost and worry about the other stuff later!
Small steps, hard work, a couple of favorable bounces and a GOAL SET at the beginning of the year to do better than the last year is the way to go.
No one is going to hand you anything in this region!

BoomerIL · April 23, 2008, 01:25:58 AM

scuba16....

I really appreciate the time you spent explaining the situation with Cortland, and how they have become a premier program. I think having a set of goals for a program are extremely important, like making it to the regionals. The history was interesting to read, and I actually copied your text for future reference. Its one more piece of information for me in learning about New York and DIII baseball. I never played baseball in college and can only envy those of you who have. Thanks again for the post.

John McGraw · April 23, 2008, 01:34:44 AM

Just a random observation, the best player at Rochester recently was Chris Rosenbaum. He played at UofR for two seasons before transferring to Division II Tampa. He was an all-conference and all-region guy plus all-academic (I'm too lazy to look up his exact awards). Chris was part of two national championship teams with Tampa and he had the game-winning hit in the title 2006 D-II title tilt.

Chris is currently playing in the Los Angeles Angels farm system with the Cedar Rapids Kernals.

Ralph Turner · April 23, 2008, 01:41:39 AM

Quote from: John McGraw on April 23, 2008, 01:34:44 AM
Just a random observation, the best player at Rochester recently was Chris Rosenbaum. He played at UofR for two seasons before transferring to Division II Tampa. He was an all-conference and all-region guy plus all-academic (I'm too lazy to look up his exact awards). Chris was part of two national championship teams with Tampa and he had the game-winning hit in the title 2006 D-II title tilt.

Chris is currently playing in the Los Angeles Angels farm system with the Cedar Rapids Kernals.

With academic prowess that would admit him to Rochester, it would not surprise me to see Rosenbaum move to the front office when his playing days are over.

JQV · April 23, 2008, 08:51:59 AM

In looking at the direction D3 sports seem to be heading in upstate, I would think UR Baseball is a program situated well to move into the next echelon eventually.

Seems like a lot of NY schools are starting to take their athletic programs seriously, in a way they hadn't in the past. That has chipped away at some of the perennial powers' ability to recruit NY talent. Stated more directly, the talent that comes out of NY is getting spread around leading to more parity. The schools that will be good in the near future are those schools that can recruit out of state.

Seems to me that UR has the advantage on everyone in this area. The men's hoop team has proven that. I wouldn't be surprised if the baseball or football team took a similar step...eventually.

BaseB13 · April 23, 2008, 11:33:54 AM

Hello fellas, been awhile since I was on. Just caught up on all the banter.

My thoughts:

a) I don't think anyone wants to dispute this: Cortland is the best in region, plays the toughest schedule, and is the team to beat.

b) IC Lovers, stop saying the region is Cortland/IC, then everyone else. This year it's actually Cortland then IC, RPI, UR (Maybe SJFC), then everyone else.

c) I believe someone said UR and other in region teams are not good competition for Ithaca. Well yetserdays game seemed pretty competitive.

d) I disagree with whoever said the SUNYAC is strong this year. I think this is the weakest its been in awhile. First time in a few years that we dont have a Cortland/Platt/Oneonta/BPort tournament though. Tough to say your conference is strong when the 2nd place team has an overall record of 11 - 16. What happened to Brockport anyways? They just play poorly in confernece?

e) I think as of right now the LL is the strongest conference in the region. Yes Cortland is by far the best team, but after them the SUNYAC seems to have fallen off this year. The E8 has Ithaca and Fisher but right now I'd say RPI/UR are equal if not better. After those top two teams I think SLU/Skid/Clark are stronger than RIT.

f) I think many teams are having a difficult time scheduling tougher in region opponents. With the LL switching to 24 conference games it forced the E8 to do the same thing. Therefore the top teams seem to beat up on the bottom teams in their conference causing major disparity in records. If the 4 game conference schedule was not implemented teams like RPI/Ithaca would be playing. I think it's caused a lot of inflated records. (In the LL for sure with teams winning 7 or 8 games against Vassar and Union instead of 3 or 4 and then having to play tougher non conference games, same with the E8).

g) Many of the NY Region Representatives are made based on UR or RPI winning the Liberty League Tournament which UR has never accomplished (let alone won a conference tournament game in 5 years) and RPI has not done in the last three years. The only way they both make it is if one of them wins the tournament (IMO).

Just my thoughts.

John McGraw · April 23, 2008, 10:24:46 PM

Ithaca 14 Clarkson 5

Ithaca next vs. Brockport at home on Saturday, at Oneonta Sunday. Then Monday and Tuesday against Oswego State and St. Lawrence respectively to wrap up the schedule before finals. The Oswego/St. Larry's games will be in Auburn. Then Ithaca hosts Montclair State on May 10 and 11 at Freeman Field to conclude the regular season.

BaseB13 · April 24, 2008, 12:17:38 PM

Just a little tidbit on the scheduling. I know the UR southern trip debate got bigger than people intended and someone (Scuba?) explained what he meant. I do think UR's schedule is pretty strong, including their southern trip. Now at scheduling time you can pretty much only go by how a team did the prior year to see if you'll be playing strong competition. It's quite possible the team who you thought was very good could have a down year. Also UR does not control their Southern schedule at all with the exception of playing Drew this year. They had to play 4 LL games versus Skidmore and then their UAA schedule. If I were them I would not make that one Drew game a top tier opponenent anyways if I know i had 4 conference games and then my UAA schedule to play. You'd be throwing your team to the wolves having to pitch a back end guy. This year UR did play 3 NCAA tournament teams down south, Skidmore, Emory, and Wash U. Their northern schedule includes SJFC, IC, and Cortland. So 6 NCAA tournament teams from last year are on their schedule. Not to mention RPI and SLU both were in the tournament 2 years ago. Throw in Brockport who is usually very solid. It may not be as tough as Cortland's but I don't think their schedule can be considered weak at all. Just my two cents.

John McGraw · April 26, 2008, 05:51:17 PM

Brockport 7 Ithaca 5

Bombers at O-State tomorrow.

scuba16 · April 26, 2008, 09:25:24 PM

Who threw for IC, Brockport?

StarvinMarvin · April 26, 2008, 09:43:04 PM

Nick Sottung (7 walks) for IC and Jason Shannon for B'Port.

Bob Maxwell · April 26, 2008, 09:59:30 PM

John, that has changed as Oneonta is going to Fredonia to play their last SUNYAC games that were just rescheduled last week.

John McGraw · April 29, 2008, 08:54:49 PM

Ithaca 10 St. Lawrence 3

Bob Maxwell · April 29, 2008, 09:50:45 PM

Quick comment on BaseB13's comment about the SUNYAC this year...

The league did start the season poorly and some of the teams that have won 25 plus games in the past have struggled this year. But they are still teams that play you tough... I think the entire league is a little more even this year. And do agree, perhaps a little down from the last few years.

And who would have thought when you posted your post on 4/23 stating that this is the first year we don't have the same 4 teams in the tournament... that we in fact would have the same four teams again. We do... as Oneonta and Brockport won the games that they needed to win to get in. Oneonta as the #2 seed, and Brockport as the #3.

Also, Brockport started the year a little shakey... if you look at the box scores, they were in all the games (but 2) but didn't win some close ones. And they had 4 or 5 freshman on the field almost every game... They lost four returning players unexpectedly from last years team and had to fill the holes. It took some time to do so... and some of the returners struggled early. But the leadership held everything together and they have turned the corner and are on a winning streak right now.

Good job by first year coach Beach to hold it all together and turn it around... the young guys are veterans now as they've been trusted to do the job all year and are doing Fine.

It will be an interesting end to the year... with most likely a couple new visitors to the regional. Great time of year!