BB: LL: Liberty League

[Ralph Turner]

Boomer, I can sense your frustration and understand it.

In the ASC, a 15-team conference, we had "quad-champs" in the ASC-West in 2008.  The Pool A bid is awarded to the conference tourney winner (best 2-of-3 among the top 4 teams in each division, 1 v 4, 2 v 3, 3 at 2, 4 at 1 in the first weekend and then double elimination for the 4 winners during the next weekend).  Last year, only McMurry, one of those "quad champs" made the playoffs.  No one got a Pool C bid from the conference, even top 25's UT-Tyler and University of the Ozarks.

Most newcomers to D3 don't understand how thin the margin of victory and defeat is.  They are used to D1 tourneys where there may be 3-5 teams going to the playoffs from the major conferences. 

A general rule is "If you shouldn't have lost the game, then that game will probably cost you the bid!"

About five years ago, a Linfield football team stayed home on a Pool B judgment call.  For the next season, they adopted the motto, "Leave no doubt!"

If your players understand how tough it is, then they will focus on every pitch as if it is the bottom of the 9th! 

[BoomerIL]

Ralph.....

Like the old saying goes....should've, would've, could've!!  Your absolutely correct, if you don't win against a better ranked opponent, or can't beat the known lessor quality team, then you don't deserve the nod.  I personally believe that if they hadn't lost to Ithaca (they did give this one away), Vassar, St.John Fisher (for some reason they can't beat them) and even St. Lawrence in their own hosted league tournament, they may have gotten a Pool 'C' bid.  They had a team that was good enough to be in regionals, and maybe beyond.  They were hitting on all cylinders last season, except for those losses.

Don't get me wrong, they won some games hwere they should have probably lost, but as I always say, "that's baseball," including not making the regional.  Besides when you mention teams like Tyler and Ozarks, I can't imagine how frustrated they must have felt.  The selection process, or should I say the rating/points system that is used by the NCAA makes it that much more important to win your conference games as well as your highly ranked team non-conference games.

All we can do is look forward to "next" season, maybe like the Cubs do, and keep building toward the ulitmate goal, one step at a time.

[Ralph Turner]

Good evening Boomer,
I agree.  Four changed outcomes on a season probably gets you into Pool C.

I "roughed" out the in-region record and got 24-10.  Beating SLU in the finals gives you the Pool A bid.  Let's give Rochester the other four victories to stay in "Pool C".  That makes Rochester 28-6.  I think that gets you to Pool C.

I hope our discussion helps the Yellow Jacket players understand how tenuous it is.  Don't count on Pool C!   

(I also assume that the NCAA doesn't count the UAA conference games as "in-region" in your case.  Adding four more UAA wins and three more UAA losses takes you to 28-13, which drops the percentage below .700   That may be the case, because that .700 to .750 in-region won-loss is where it starts to get tricky!)

[Big Louie]

ralph it is to my understanding that the UAA games do count toward Rochester's In-Region record

[BoomerIL]

Mr. Turner.....

Every game is important as we know.  It's just interesting to me on how teams are selected to the tournament if they are not a Pool A.  You can't let up one bit.  The decision makers have a tough time, considering that they may need to move schools from one regional tournament to another.

Yeah, I don't think they took anything for granted, they just fizzled.  Sort of like my Cubs against the Dodgers.  No bats when you needed them.

38 days for MLB pitchers and catchers and injured players reporting.

[Ralph Turner]

ralph it is to my understanding that the UAA games do count toward Rochester's In-Region record

Thanks, Butch!  +1! 

The 28-13 in-region record makes more sense as to why Rochester didn't make Pool C.  Four changed outcomes make Rochester 32-9 (.780) a strong contender for Pool C. 

[BoomerIL]

Mr. Turner......

32-9 would have been very nice, but all they needed to do to get in was to win their conference!

[BaseB13]

The way the LL is currently set up it is extremely difficult for any team to get a Pool C bid... No knock to Vassar and Union but any time 20% of your regular season schedule is made up of two teams that win a combined 16 games, it's going to be difficult to get an At-Large Bid.  I don't care who else you play.  And to have losses to teams with that poor of records is even worse.  If the LL was a 12 game conference schedule like it used to be, or even 18, teams would have the ability to schedule many more strong non-conference opponents, which could help strengthen LL teams ability to attain a Pool C bid.  The ideal scenario would be 3 games vs. each conference opponent but playing in the Northeast makes it way too difficult.  Not playing 4 games in a weekend is simply not possible due to a lack of time.

However, I think the LL is doing it the right way.  Placing a major emphasis on the Pool A bid by having 60% of games played within the league.  Unless you're RPI or you win 35 games, it's going to be difficult for an LL team to get a Pool C bid until they make a name for themselves on a national level (i.e. World Series).

Butch, I'm now so sure you can say anymore that the LL is an RPI conference.  Prior to this past Spring RPI hadn't won the conference since 2004.  Three teams have won it in the past 5 years (SLU 1, RPI 2, Skid 2).

[Ralph Turner]

Good discussion about Pool C...

I can see LL teams improving your chances at Pool C by scheduling good teams for in-region games.  The expanded in-region teams will include the NY and PA schools, for the most part.  If you make a spring trip to FL or AZ, then try to coordinate those opponents.

Second, I will look more carefully in 2009, but having an in-region record less than .700 is probably a non-starter.  As we discussed with Rochester, .680 doesn't make it, and there are a ton of schools who are looking at .680 in-region records.

Finally, I think that post-season tourneys knock down Pool C teams, because they usually pick up 2 more losses, while gaining only 2-3 wins.  Jim Dixon and I believe that Linfield earned its Pool C bid by not having two more losses in the post-season tourney!

[BoomerIL]

University of Rochester Schedule........

March 7     Sat.    Skidmore College (DH) - St. Petersburg, FL - Noon
March 8     Sun.   Skidmore College (DH) - St. Petersburg, FL - 11am
March 10   Tues.  Emory - Sanford, FL - 11am
March 10   Tues.  Case Western Reserve U. - Sanford, FL - 2:30 pm
March 11   Wed.  Brandeis - Sanford, FL - 6pm
March 12   Thurs. Emory University - Sanford, FL - 4pm
March 13   Fri.     Washington U. St. Louis - Sanford, FL - 2:30pm
March 14   Sat.    Brandeis - Sanford, FL - 11am
March 21   Sat.    Cobleskill (DH) Towers Field - 2:30pm
March 22   Sun.   Cobleskill Towers Field - Noon
March 24   Tues.  @Cortland St. Cortland, NY - 3:30pm
March 28   Sat.    @St. Lawrence U. (DH) - Canton, NY - 1pm
March 29   Sun.    @St. Lawrence U. (DH) - Canton, NY - Noon
April 1        Wed.   Brockport St. Towers Field - 4pm
April 4        Sat.    @Union College (DH) - Schenectady, NY - 1pm
April 5        Sun.   @Union College (DH) - Schenectady, NY  -Noon
April 7        Tues.  St. John Fisher Towers Field - 4pm
April 10      Fri.     RPI (DH) Towers Field - 2pm
April 11      Sat.    RPI (DH) Towers Field  -Noon
April 14      Tues.  RIT Towers Field - 4pm
April 15      Wed.  @Keuka Keuka Park, NY - 3pm
April 18      Sat.    Clarkson University (DH) - Towers Field - 1pm
April 19      Sun.   Clarkson University (DH) - Towers Field - Noon
April 21      Tues.  Ithaca College Towers Field - 4pm
April 22      Wed.  @RIT Rochester, NY - 4pm
April 25      Sat.   @Vassar (DH) - Poughkeepsie, NY - 1pm
April 26      Sun.   @Vassar (DH) - Poughkeepsie, NY - Noon
April 29      Wed.  @St. John Fisher Penfield, NY - 4pm
May 8-10   Fri.-Sun Liberty League Tournament TBD TBD
May 13-17 Wed.-Sun. NCAA Regional Tournament Farmingdale, NY TBD
May 22-30 Fri.-Sat. Division III World Series Appleton, WI TBD

[Ralph Turner]

I count 41 games Boomer IL.

Is one of the games "cancel-able", considering early season weather?

(I am thinking that you will have a "global warming" winter until early May.)

[BoomerIL]

Mr. Turner.....

As usual, the weather will most likely cancel several games, if not more.  Coach Reina has always anticipated this, at least since I have known him.  Some of the coaches in the 'away' games have fields that can "drain" much better than most, so they have made concessions for weather conditions, i.e., Cortland where their fields have good drainage.  If the scheduled date doesn't work, then they have 1-2 consecutive dates from the original date that could work.

[AlleyCat]

From the looks of it the Liberty League is Rochester's to lose. They have 2 great lefties and solid hitting back. They deserved to be in the NCAA's last year even though they fell in the LL tourney. I think the LL is an undervalued league when it comes to strength. Rochester and RPI are usually tough and in the playoffs Skidmore and St Lawrence play tough. Now because of the 24 game league schedule sometimes the LL has some tough mid-week matchups, but with that said I think the league is pretty solid. Every league has teams that will have bad years and the LL is no different. The first weekend in Florida will be interesting with Rochester playing a tough Skidmore team.  RPI should be good again, but some of the pitchers are going to need to step it up with Zongol and Klein leaving. Offensively they should be ok.

[spectator123]

How many quality pitchers do you really need to get you through the regular season and the LL tournament to get you in a position  for a potential WS regional bid? Does Rochester and other LL schools have what they need? I assume the bullpen is real important. How is that looking throughout the league?

[AlleyCat]

To really be a contender in a league that plays 4 game sets you need at least 3 quality starters and 3 out of the pen minimum.  Top 4 go to the Tourney and its a double elimination 3 day tourney I believe. Even then you need 3 starters and a good pen to be a contender. In a 8 team regional you need more than that.  4 or 5 quality starters and 4 or 5 quality relievers. If you don't have that, you better win every game.

Rochester and RPI has good pitching depth although both lost its dominant #1 from last year.