BB: LL: Liberty League

[John McGraw]

John.....

You know John, for some reason I really feel that you like seeing Rochester lose/fail???  Being the Rochester "homer" that I am, you have really expressed your opinions to the negative reagarding their play.  Not many positive words coming from you, only patronizing vocabulary.  I'm really sorry that they beat you beloved Cortland this year, NOT, but UR did deserve top win that game, and many others.  As I have always said about the outcome of a game, win or lose, "that's baseball!"

Sure Rochester gave away some games this season, but that doesn't make them a poor team, or a losing team, or inconsitent team, it just shows that they are a baseball team.  How did Cortland play this year,and do they deserve their ranking???  I have nothing against them or their coach, who I hear is a gentlemen, but what really bothers me is the fact that so many people, you John, who think they can and may well do, is by sway the opinion of others in a selection process for post season play.

I might be off base here, but I'm not the only one that questions your motivations.  What's in it for you, a vote?  Do you get to vote for the teams for post season, or am I giving you to much credit?  You did announce Cortland games for awhile didn't you?  Is it something you have the UR coach.  You just seem to involved in the failings, or future of Rochester baseball.  You have been very opinionated about Rochester, but very silent about Cortlands play this year.  What is it John, please explain, because I'm upset our kids didn't do better in the Liberty League, but for you t make comments like " good night Gracie" and "that should end their Pool C chances" is un-called for!!  Who the hell do you think you are John?  How about trying to be silent?  What do you really know about Rochester, their players, and coaches.  Do you know anything about their character, who they really are??  They don't need your "bush" comments.  One thing I do know is that they are all better than you and would never comment about your failures!!! 

I'm just stating the facts. Rochester's defeat today at the hands of RPI likely ends their Pool C hopes. You've asked me before and I've said that Rochester is a good team this year so no, I haven't been bad-mouthing them all year - please go back and read the posts. Just because I pick against Rochester doesn't mean I have anything against them, it's my choice. Come regionals time, I'll likely be picking against Ithaca and/or Cortland - not because I hate them, but because I think another team will win on Long Island.

Look, I understand that you're upset that Rochester went 0-2 in the Liberty League tournament, but complaining about someone's picks on a message board isn't going to do much of anything at this point in the season.

Rochester had a very good season and I think that outside of the big three (Ithaca, RPI, Cortland), the Jackets were the best team in the region. That being said, had a few games that ended up being losses went in the win column, it's a different story. For example, the Ithaca and Brockport non-conference games, or the RPI game at home. Even this morning's game against RPI, Rochester had the lead in the game and just couldn't hold it. You turn any one of those around, and it's a different season.

[BoomerIL]

John.....

You know John, for some reason I really feel that you like seeing Rochester lose/fail???  Being the Rochester "homer" that I am, you have really expressed your opinions to the negative reagarding their play.  Not many positive words coming from you, only patronizing vocabulary.  I'm really sorry that they beat you beloved Cortland this year, NOT, but UR did deserve top win that game, and many others.  As I have always said about the outcome of a game, win or lose, "that's baseball!"

Sure Rochester gave away some games this season, but that doesn't make them a poor team, or a losing team, or inconsitent team, it just shows that they are a baseball team.  How did Cortland play this year,and do they deserve their ranking???  I have nothing against them or their coach, who I hear is a gentlemen, but what really bothers me is the fact that so many people, you John, who think they can and may well do, is by sway the opinion of others in a selection process for post season play.

I might be off base here, but I'm not the only one that questions your motivations.  What's in it for you, a vote?  Do you get to vote for the teams for post season, or am I giving you to much credit?  You did announce Cortland games for awhile didn't you?  Is it something you have the UR coach.  You just seem to involved in the failings, or future of Rochester baseball.  You have been very opinionated about Rochester, but very silent about Cortlands play this year.  What is it John, please explain, because I'm upset our kids didn't do better in the Liberty League, but for you t make comments like " good night Gracie" and "that should end their Pool C chances" is un-called for!!  Who the hell do you think you are John?  How about trying to be silent?  What do you really know about Rochester, their players, and coaches.  Do you know anything about their character, who they really are??  They don't need your "bush" comments.  One thing I do know is that they are all better than you and would never comment about your failures!!! 

I'm just stating the facts. Rochester's defeat today at the hands of RPI likely ends their Pool C hopes. You've asked me before and I've said that Rochester is a good team this year so no, I haven't been bad-mouthing them all year - please go back and read the posts. Just because I pick against Rochester doesn't mean I have anything against them, it's my choice. Come regionals time, I'll likely be picking against Ithaca and/or Cortland - not because I hate them, but because I think another team will win on Long Island.

Look, I understand that you're upset that Rochester went 0-2 in the Liberty League tournament, but complaining about someone's picks on a message board isn't going to do much of anything at this point in the season.

Rochester had a very good season and I think that outside of the big three (Ithaca, RPI, Cortland), the Jackets were the best team in the region. That being said, had a few games that ended up being losses went in the win column, it's a different story. For example, the Ithaca and Brockport non-conference games, or the RPI game at home. Even this morning's game against RPI, Rochester had the lead in the game and just couldn't hold it. You turn any one of those around, and it's a different season.

I like John Mcgraw's takes and really don't get a negative tone from it boomer man.  First time poster here but frequent reader.  He just really tells the truth.  Feel bad for Coach Reina, quality guy but boy his teams just don't post at all in the LL tournament.  Hard not to root for Clarkson a bit here, who throughout the early mid part of this decade continuously knocked on the door and just couldn't finish off the tourny.  And how about Skidmore... the epitome of "scrappy".  Not real talented, no real power arms but just play solid ball and make you beat them.  I am pulling for UR for an atlarge but don't see it going two and out and with the strength of the New England region.  And as for Cortland, here is for them getting knocked out, saw them play and got sick of watching the HC whine all game long.  Man if things don't go his way it is always the men in blue.  They still have the best team though and if they make it would like to see the region well represented. 

Last night I vented, and I don't have a problem with any kind of analysis, but the extra comments aren't necessary.  I can handle someone stating facts, just like what was mentioned in another post when Rochester was left on the table last year by the voters.  30 wins, 10 losses, in-region wins, etc. I understand all of that.  Those un-written benchmarks for acceptance into the upper levels of DIII baseball.  Rochester had goals this year of winning the UAA in Florida, getting 30+ wins, winning the LL, and going to the regional, and maybe beyond.  You and some others might think that's pie-in-the-sky thinking.  They don't and I don't!  You're absolutely right, they didn't beat Ithaca, or Brockport, or RPI, and was eliminated from the LL tournament.  Some of those wins may have made it easier for the voters to let them in as a Pool C if they didn't win the LL.

John, this is a very good team, and after listening to how Cortland was down this year and is coming back, ranked pretty high, how RPI strung wins together, and how Ithaca keep silent, but managed to put it together, I still believe Rochester should get a bid.  They may have given up leads that lead to losses, but they can play with the best-of-the-best.

As for Skidmore or Clarkson, they have been spoilers, even for RPI, but those comments go un-spoken.  I guess its o.k. because they're RPI.  I'm not looking for a hand-out when it comes to a bid.  Having other top teams lose their conference tournaments doesn't help, since they're overall records are a bit better.  Rochester's bid chances are in the hands of others today.

Like I said before, I can handle fair analysis, but that analysis needs to be spread out evenly amongst all the teams in this region.  I don't see that happening from everyone, especially you.  It really appears at times that you have more negative things to say about Rochester than anyone else.  It sounds like I'm whinning, crying, and maybe I am a little, but I think it's time for the Rochester and the Liberty League teams, besides RPI, to get more respect.  It's not about the SUNYAC anymore.     

[airball55]

wow, this is a fan board.  I don't think John Mcgraw is negative at all.  When you are discussing at large bids out of the NY region, you have to get very critical.  This is traditionally the weakest regions or one of the bottom two in the country.  I have lobbied for Rochester being a LL guy but just can't anymore in light of their postseason records.  They loaded up on Cobleskill, Keuka, RIT, a slightly above average fisher team in non league (in region).  Couple that with a weak LL and I just don't like their chances for that at large.  I hope they do get in even over RPI (if they lose today) but that won't happen due to league record, head to head, etc.  Nice win against Cortland (who has loses against Plattsburgh, Fredonia, Brockport, Ithaca, Farmingdale, etc.) so that just does not have the strength in used to.  So being unbiased (actually not, LL fan here) I just don't think the Jackets get in even with an RPI comeback.  The best thing they have is an awful region where no one else is remotely close to an at large as well.  Maybe the committee will take geography into account.  To bad they couldn't play in the bogus ECAC tournament and try and back door a bid a la St. John Fisher (two years ago I think).  That was a joke!!!

[BaseB13]

I think everyone weights the Pool C opportunitys for LL teams a bit to heavily.  When 24 of 40 games are in conference it's going to make it difficult to really have a very strong strength of schedule unless your conference is up big time that year.  I will say there are four 20 game winners in the LL but 8 of them do come against Vassar and Union.  Rochester did well against some very good UAA teams but an at large bid for a team that hasn't been on the national stage like an Ithaca, Cortland, or RPI is asking a lot.  No knock to UR.  I'd say this about every LL team except for maybe RPI.  We'll find out soon though.

Looks like RPI eeked out an win against Skidmore.  I must say despite the regular season record difference it appears the LL is pretty even this year.  Rochester knocked around RPI but couldn't hold a lead and Skidmore has completely battered RPI's pitching.  I think a few weeks ago people thought RPI may be heads above the rest of the league.  I'm not so sure now.  I'll be shocked if Clarkson doesn't win this thing.  I can't imagine RPI has much pitching left.  However, if any team is capable of pulling out two wins with pure slugging I suppose its RPI. 

[John McGraw]

Clarkson 7 RPI 3, Top 4

If this one runs long, the winner-take-all game may run up against the curfew.

[scuba16]

God I hope RPI loses

[airball55]

Scuba man you got your wish.  Clarkson wins game two after losing the lead in game one on the day.  They take the final by a score of 13-6.  RPI has some huge concerns heading into the tourny.  Their defense was atrocious and although it is tough to play five games on the same weekend, the pitching has also got to be a concern.  They ran Mondo out there again today on two days rest.  Drymiller (spelling) and Opperman struggled.  Good for Clarkson though who has knocked on the door often and gets a crack at a regional.  With this, Rochester's season is probably over. 

[John McGraw]

Good for Clarkson. If I remember rightly, they got the shaft several years back in the Liberty League tournament when they should have won it.

Austin Pitkin will give someone a run for their money in the opening game of the regionals.

Now jeez, did you ever think there'd be a day when the Clarkson baseball team went to the NCAA tournament while the hockey team didn't make it out of the first round of the conference tournament?

[airball55]

God I hope the hockey hounds at Clarkson don't read this!!!  Maybe the ice melted.  Class program up there and good luck to them in the regionals.  RPI has to sit and wait but looks solid for an at large.  Cortland is looking better and better with each passing tournament. 

[StagnantFLY]

Why doesnt RPI ever play teams from the SUNYAC conference? I believe the best conference in NY is the SUNYAC. I see they played Cortland and lost pretty badly but why havent they played the likes of Brockport or Oneonta? I believe those teams are just as good as RPI. Maybe even better than RPI. The Liberty League has a good top few teams but a very weak bottom of the league. How bout the SUNYAC and LL play eachother atleast 1 time a year therefore we can better determine who is better and it will definately help with NCAA at large bids. Any thoughts???

[AlleyCat]

Stag,
You are so off base with your comment about the SUNYAC being the best conference. Maybe a couple of years ago but no this year. The LL was very good this year if you actually saw any games. People speak about Plattsburgh being tough. Skidmore won 2 of 3 against them. Somebody needs to wake up and see that the LL is a pretty stronmg conference 1 through 4.

If RPI doesn't get a bid with a 34-11 record (Most wins in the region and most wins in region 32) the NY committee should all resign and the national committee should be let go.

[airball55]

Ah the ole' sunyac versus the world argument.  I have experience in both leagues, played in the Yac, coach in the LL and I do believe year by year the Sunyac is a bit more talented.  The statement that they don't play each other is false though.  Cortland played Clarkson, RPI and Rochester this year.  That's just the beginning.  All teams in Ny cross over at some point.  Cortland and RPI are usually the powerhouses.  Rochester, St Lawrence, Clarkson and Skidmore are comparable to Brockport, Oneonta, Plattsburgh and now Fredonia.  St. Lawrence pounded Fredonia but lost to Oswego, Clarkson split with Brockport was swept by Cortland but Rochester beat Cortland yada yada yada.  Just does not make sense to get to deep in this but year in year out, the Yac is a bit ahead of the LL.  Vassar and Union just stink, the LL teams need to get 7 of 8 in those series.  Plattsburgh and Skidmore are similar, scrappy teams that overacheive.  Until NY forms one whole league and everyone plays each other in a 3 or four game series (which will never happen obviously) it is impossible to make my league is way better than your league claims.  Year in year out, I will take Cortland, Brockport, Oneonta, Plattsburgh and Fredonia over RPI, Rochester, Clarkson, St. Lawrence and Skidmore though.  Thoughts??

[StagnantFLY]

Alley,
lets be honest....The SUNYAC is a better conference...better players...better overall teams. RPI is good but they arent Cortland. You cant tell me you like RPI over Oneonta this year either....in a 3 game series like eevryone wants....Filak, Juedes and Meservey are tough to beat. Plattsburgh was better in years past then they were this year.
I agree Airball, I would take those teams over the LL teams year in year out. Im not dissing the LL, all i ask is that these leagues play eachother....maybe like a BIG TEN ACC Challenge like in college basketball. 3 game series vs the other league. How hard is that to schedule.?

[pudge27]

Seems as though Boomer is a little sensitive about UR this year and rightfully so.  There are 2 points that you should keep in mind though. 

-UR was sitting pretty mid season and just didn't close.  You can't give the selection committee a reason to NOT take you.  Tucking your tail in a conference tournament when you're on the bubble is that reason.

-Part of your reasoning seems to be that everyone else has flaws and that we're picking on Roch.  You referenced Cortland a few times.  They may be down a bit this year, but the bottom line is that the SUNYAC's came to town and Cortland buried people---didn't give someone a reason to not take them.  U of R did. 

As I read this, I guess those may be the same reason, but boy is it true.  And if we all knew how much pull John had on the selection committee, we probably all would be nicer to him on the boards. 

[AlleyCat]

Stag,
Are you kidding me? Oneonta over RPI? Oneonta plays a bunch of walkovers to go 17-1 and ends up 26-12 when they play in NY. Give me a break. Cortland is legit and Brockport is OK. Any division 3 team with a .500 record cannot be considered good, period.

Cortalnd played RPI the 2nd game of the season. If you judge that game that highly then you don't understand baseball or the fact that the lineup was even set for either team at that point.