BB: LL: Liberty League

airball55 · April 29, 2014, 04:30:20 PM

Well, it certainly looks like their chance. They have been under .500 the past three years and it seems the LL is a bit more open. Union is still the team to beat, I saw RIT, not impressed at all. I don't know about the Rochester Coaches but they should be good now with that facility and the city to draw from. How about the job by the staffs at Vassar and Union? I don't even think the Union gig is full time!! And, Vassar was a door mat for years.

djm222ball · April 29, 2014, 08:43:03 PM

The staffs at Union and Vassar have turned those 2 programs around.
Not one guy on the Union staff is full time but man are they a driven bunch! Vassar has worked very hard as well and brought in some very talented players.

Both programs are vastly improved and make the league better

baseballislife · April 29, 2014, 08:45:37 PM

No doubt that Vassar and Union have risen from perpetual cellar dwellers to respectability. I remember seeing them play a few years ago and, not to be disrespectful, but the product was not good. Seven of the teams in the league are above .500 and there is a lot of balance and parity. I think the disparity of talent is much less than a few years ago when there were 2-3 good teams and 3-4 weak teams that the upper tier could stack up wins on.

I see this weekend and the tournament week as wide open. Several teams have at least one guy with shut down numbers on the hill. I expect that the team that backs them up with the cleanest defense and does the little things will prevail and move on. I also expect some 3-2 or 2-1 type games on the first couple of days when the pitching heavyweights take the hill and more scoring on Saturday.

CookFedoShimkin · April 30, 2014, 01:37:24 PM

Does anyone know how the scheduling works in this league? How can a team in its second year be qualified to play in the league and not even record a single win. At least Skidmore is capable of maybe taking 1 from some opponent. These are the amount of games played against the bottom two horrible teams in the LL.

Union – 11-5-1 – 2 v Bard, 4 v Skidmore _____ 6 games
Rochester – 16-8 – 4 v Bard, 4 v Skidmore______ 8 games
RPI – 11-7 – 4 v Bard, 4 v Skidmore _____ 8 games
RIT – 11-7 – 3 v Bard, 4 v Skidmore______ 7 games
Clarkson – 10-7 – 4 v Bard, 4 v Skidmore (this weekend) ____ 8 games
Vassar – 9-7 – 4 v Bard (this weekend), 2 v Skidmore ____ 6 games
St. Lawrence – 9-8 – 0 v Bard, 0 V Skidmore ____ 0 games

The standings are so skewed this year in the LL. Without Bard/Skidmore - Rochester and Clarkson are .500 teams at best. Union, Vassar, SLU, and RPI should be post season teams. SLU got unlucky with schedule. They could have used an easy 4 win weekend like those experienced by UR.

baseballislife · April 30, 2014, 04:02:23 PM

Quote from: CookFedoShimkin on April 30, 2014, 01:37:24 PM
Does anyone know how the scheduling works in this league? How can a team in its second year be qualified to play in the league and not even record a single win. At least Skidmore is capable of maybe taking 1 from some opponent. These are the amount of games played against the bottom two horrible teams in the LL.

Union – 11-5-1 – 2 v Bard, 4 v Skidmore _____ 6 games
Rochester – 16-8 – 4 v Bard, 4 v Skidmore______ 8 games
RPI – 11-7 – 4 v Bard, 4 v Skidmore _____ 8 games
RIT – 11-7 – 3 v Bard, 4 v Skidmore______ 7 games
Clarkson – 10-7 – 4 v Bard, 4 v Skidmore (this weekend) ____ 8 games
Vassar – 9-7 – 4 v Bard (this weekend), 2 v Skidmore ____ 6 games
St. Lawrence – 9-8 – 0 v Bard, 0 V Skidmore ____ 0 games

The standings are so skewed this year in the LL. Without Bard/Skidmore - Rochester and Clarkson are .500 teams at best. Union, Vassar, SLU, and RPI should be post season teams. SLU got unlucky with schedule. They could have used an easy 4 win weekend like those experienced by UR.

Your argument does not hold water and here is why:

1. Bard lost a total of six league games by 1 or 2 runs, so it was not like they were not competitive in any games. That doesn't even include the game they tied against Union and Union needed a late unearned run to get the tie. It also doesn't include the 8-3 win by RPI this past Sunday - a game that RPI trailed in until putting up a late big inning. That program will be winning games before too long.

2. Skidmore lost a total of five league games by 1 or 2 runs as well. They were more competitive than their record.

3. Every year there are teams at the top and teams at the bottom. UR played every league game on their schedule and finished with a .667 winning percentage, plus have quality out of conference wins. They took 3 of 4 from both RPI and Vassar - both teams you say should be there in front of UR. That makes no sense.

4. SLU took 3 of 4 from UR and Clarkson, so I am guessing that is what you are basing your .500 assessment on them on. Four of those six wins by SLU were by one run, so it wasn't like they were that dominant. Both of those series could easily have been split or gone 3-1 in the other direction. If SLU had taken care of business against Vassar (0-2), Union (1-2), and RIT (2-2), they wouldn't be in the 9-8 position they are in. Between the games they won't get to play (two vs. Vassar, one against Union) and the RPI series this weekend (I see a 2-2 split), I think SLU would probably finish at 12-12. There is your real .500 team.

The only point you could make that I agree with would be that with the new format it is indeed unfortunate that every team does not play every team each year. Teams that don't get to play the bottom team(s) will always be at a disadvantage. Let's put it this way, if you want to be the best, you have beat the best teams in the regular season and in the play-offs. If you are not good enough to play a tough schedule and win then you are probably not ready to be Champions anyway. Just sounds like sour grapes.

airball55 · April 30, 2014, 09:23:45 PM

I can see why Cook is right. Unbalanced schedules lead to teams having slightly easier roads. Syracuse only played Virginia once in hoops this year, advantage for them for instance. With a four game schedule, and, so many teams, there was no way to keep the schedule balanced. Some years it's in your favor, some year's it's not. It also matters whether you play certain teams at home or on the road. St. Law, most certainly drew the short end on the schedule. But, a win is a win, so calling those teams .500 isn't necessarily fair, all leagues have weaker teams and you have to hold serve against them. Good points though

baseballislife · May 01, 2014, 07:02:26 PM

Good win by SLU today over Ithaca, 5-3. Good for the Liberty League.

baseballislife · May 03, 2014, 12:41:17 PM

The play-offs effectively start today for the LL. Six teams alive for the three remaining berths in the tournament. Home field still up for grabs and too many scenarios to effectively predict. Riley vs. Conroy pitching match-up in Canton is predictably off to a 0-0 start in the 4th inning of 7 inning tilt. Who will blink?

baseballislife · May 04, 2014, 08:43:36 PM

Quote from: baseballislife on April 15, 2014, 09:44:44 AM
You're right, this is tough. The wildcard in this is it looks like only UR will play all of its league games this year. I agree on Union looking like the team to beat. I see them in first place again and hosting the tournament. Of course, it has been many years since the host has won the tourney, so I'm not sure that bodes well for them, haha.

My originals were Union, RPI, UR, and Clarkson. I am starting to think Vassar is stronger than I thought, but it is hard to tell since they have only played 6 league games. Big series at UR this weekend.

RIT is stronger than they have been, but they will need to prove themselves over the next three weeks to get in. I see them going 5-7 and missing the play-offs, but finishing over .500 at 13-10.

My revised four are Union, UR, Vassar, and.....in a tie for fourth, RPI or Clarkson. I think they could both by 13-9 and having split the only two they have played, they may have to find a way to play the other DH to see if one of them can sweep the other and get in at 15-9. In that scenario, I'm going with RPI as the fourth.

The picture should be clearer by this Sunday. Lots of parity in the LL!

So things have sorted themselves out in the LL and the four teams making the tournament are:

1. Union 14-6-1
2. Rochester 16-8
3. Clarkson 14-7
4. Vassar 13-7

I know that Union hosted last year and the games were played @ Siena College. Does anyone know if that is the plan again? The forecast looks rainy, so hopefully they can find a place with good drainage if they don't play on their home field. Home advantage aside, they had a better chance of playing all the games at UR with the turf and lights. You just hope it gets settled on the field and not through a rain shortened tourney, as has happened in other years.

I believe that UR edges Clarkson for 2nd place based on a third tie-breaker, making them the home team in Game 1 on Thursday. Same winning %, did not face each other, but UR took 3 of 4 from Vassar while Clarkson split - Vassar being the highest finishing common opponent.

airball55 · May 05, 2014, 02:31:56 AM

I still can't get over the fact RPI can't make this conference tourney. They really have dropped off some in the past couple of years. I really thought RIT would back up, they drew well early. My original picks were Union, RPI, Clarkson and St. Law. Then, after the ole Jackets got hot, we made a slight adjustment. St. Law really got hosed. They didn't play Bard or Skidmore. That's the team that has the best argument for being in and isn't. That's what an unbalanced schedule will do and hey, they saved on mileage LOL. I can't remember for the life of me the last time a conference team shut out it's opponents in four straight games...Clarkson did that at Skidmore this weekend. They outscored Skidmore 31-0...on the road! I really like the winner of the CU,UR game to come out of the LL. Nothing against Union, and, I am VERY worried of Rochester's past failures in the post season, but, these two teams appear the most dangerous to me. Remember, Vassar blew out Union on day two of their series so they aren't particularly in awe of the Dutchmen.

AlleyCat · May 05, 2014, 08:39:41 AM

Should be a good tourney, if they can play it. RPI struggled this year trying to get all the games in in a short time period really hurt them. Having to start 2 freshman against Rochester for their first collegiate starts against Roch #1 & 2 was not good. In the end they still had a chance but came out flat against St Lawrence and that cost them. Skidmore should be ashamed of themselves not even putting up a fight. HAS THAT EVER HAPPENED BEFORE IN LEAGUE HISTORY! Nice job Coach Plourde, really had the boys playing I see. Congrats to Union, Rochester, Clarkson and Vassar. May the best team win!

My Pick is going to be Rochester or Clarkson. It's Rochester's time

baseballislife · May 05, 2014, 04:41:18 PM

Some final thoughts on the five LL teams that did not make the cut - beginning at the bottom:

Bard - Although Bard clearly did not win enough games to earn the respect of some, they can go into the off-season knowing they didn't quit on their season. Building a program from the ground up takes time and patience. The first few classes accept the challenge knowing they likely won't win many games. They put a scare into every league opponent they faced in at least one game each of those series, including all four play-off teams. Yesterday they came back to tie Vassar in the 8th inning, only to see it slip away in the bottom of the inning. They only lose one guy to graduation and he was not a starter. They will win some games next year.

Skidmore - This team seemed to quit on themselves down the stretch when it became clear they were not going to be in the post season. But zero runs scored in a four game series?? That is pretty hard to do and I would be willing to bet it has not happened in LL history. Clarkson's pitching staff is good, but they are not that good, lol. The Thoroughbreds "checked out" early even though the final weekend was moved to their field due to poor conditions @ Clarkson.

RIT - My opinion of RIT is they had their strongest team in years. The biggest story for them, in my view, was the loss of Player-of-the-Year candidate Walt Roman through an injury in the SLU series. They were 14-7 with him and 3-8 without him and I don't think that is a coincidence, so maybe that spoke to their depth a bit. However, Humbert and Cohall were a solid 1-2 SP combination and will both be back. Gorman and Barr are solid returnees as well. I did not have them as a play-off team at any point, but they were better than past years and have made progress with their program.

SLU - A talented team with perhaps the best power hitters in the LL. Losing Palmero and Riley to graduation will hurt. The Saints definitely drew the short straw when it came to scheduling this year. Of course, some teams will be in that situation every year under the current format. You still have to find a way to win the games on your schedule and they seemed to lack the depth to break out of the .500 rut after a strong first weekend. I believe the teams that made it are privately celebrating they don't have to see Riley anymore!

RPI - Hard team to figure. Their season seemed to turn after dropping 3 of 4 to UR. An 8-2 Florida trip had expectations high, but they went 3-7 against the play-off teams (did not play Vassar) and that doomed them in the end. They did have two of the best players in the league in LeSuer and Conroy and hitting depth. Lack of depth on the mound probably hurt the most. They may not be the dominant team they were in the LL for so many years, but i believe part of that is because the league itself is more balanced than it used to be and teams tend to beat each other up. I know some are rolling their eyes and pointing to Bard and Skidmore at the bottom, but 7 of the 9 teams were over .500 both in the league and overall. A strong year for the LL! See my final comment on SLU.....same goes for Conroy!

baseballislife · May 05, 2014, 09:56:47 PM

Breaking down the first day of the LL Post-Season Tournament.....

Clarkson (19-11) vs. Rochester (23-14)

Likely starters Jasek (5-2) 2.39 ERA 49 IP 45 H 18 BB+HBP 45 K .249 Opponents BA
Warren (3-2) 1.25 ERA 43.1 IP 36 H 20 BB+HBP 35K .226 Opponents BA

Team BA - Rochester .304
Clarkson .271

Opponents BA - Rochester .245
Clarkson .255

Team ERA - Clarkson 2.71
Rochester 3.17

Errors per Game - Clarkson 1.33
Rochester 1.73

Successful Steals by opponent per game / caught stealing per game - Rochester 0.70 / 0.38
Clarkson 0.90 / 0.37

Significant wins outside of LL and NY Region record - Rochester (21-8) - Case Western, Ithaca, Brockport
Clarkson (17-10) - Brockport

NCAA Strength of Schedule Ranking (376 teams) - Rochester 119
Clarkson 235

Vassar (18-12) vs. Union (22-9-1)

Likely starters Erkis (7-0) 1.72 ERA 52.1 IP 36 H 16 BB+HBP 23 K .191 Opponents BA
Fishman (6-0) 2.30 ERA 47 IP 38 H 21 BB+HBP 38K .221 Opponents BA

Team BA - Union .305
Vassar .303

Opponents BA - Union .267
Vassar .269

Team ERA - Vassar 4.49
Union 4.46

Errors per Game - Union 1.63
Vassar 2.30

Successful Steals by opponent per game / caught stealing per game - Union 1.72 / 0.28
Vassar 1.77 / 0.17

Significant wins outside of LL and NY Region record - Union (16-7-1) - None
Vassar (16-10) - Cortland

NCAA Strength of Schedule Ranking (376 teams) - Vassar 132
Union 274

OldBallsHenry · May 05, 2014, 11:07:03 PM

Quote from: airball55 on May 05, 2014, 02:31:56 AM
I still can't get over the fact RPI can't make this conference tourney. They really have dropped off some in the past couple of years. I really thought RIT would back up, they drew well early. My original picks were Union, RPI, Clarkson and St. Law. Then, after the ole Jackets got hot, we made a slight adjustment. St. Law really got hosed. They didn't play Bard or Skidmore. That's the team that has the best argument for being in and isn't. That's what an unbalanced schedule will do and hey, they saved on mileage LOL. I can't remember for the life of me the last time a conference team shut out it's opponents in four straight games...Clarkson did that at Skidmore this weekend. They outscored Skidmore 31-0...on the road! I really like the winner of the CU,UR game to come out of the LL. Nothing against Union, and, I am VERY worried of Rochester's past failures in the post season, but, these two teams appear the most dangerous to me. Remember, Vassar blew out Union on day two of their series so they aren't particularly in awe of the Dutchmen.

And Union blew out Vassar on day one of their series. These two teams really haven't had a fair matchup yet. Union threw their #1 and #2 on day one while Vassar threw their #3 and #4. Vassar threw their #1 and #2 on day two and Union threw their #3 and #4 so I wouldn't draw too much out of the prior results of their matchup.

LLBaseball · May 07, 2014, 11:05:06 AM

I think the LL tournament is set up to be a great one, as long as the weather holds up. Union and Vassar is always a good matchup and the Clarkson/Rochester series is anyone's game.

I can't get over how Union/Vassar have come through to be forces in this league. Both coaching staffs have done an outstanding job getting those programs back to a competitive level. Vassar especially, has a very difficult recruiting scheme there and they have brought in some terrific players. Coach Martin is a great coach and has worked very hard to get that program where it is. Coach Mound has done the same at Union. Great job all around.

Now, I'm only going to pick winners on the first day. I pick the two underdogs. Vassar wins a close game with one of those two freshmen on the mound and Clarkson wins with Jasek. Rochester, I'm sorry to think, will go home in 2 games. I just don't feel they are comfortable playing do-or-die baseball. My tournament pick to win the title is Clarkson, with what they have gone through this year.

Anyone else?