BB: LL: Liberty League

[pavanyks]

let me define rebuild ... so i don't get mis quoted or mis represented ... my bad for not making it clear.


Do i think cortland will be in a top 10 team yes.  DO i think Ithaca will be better yes.   So with that said i think Cortland will land 5-10 and hence it is a rebuilding year for team.

They set the standard in CNY along with Ithaca - no question.

[anonymous234]

Does a Rochester fan run this site?  They are picked as the darkhorse in the New York Regional and are going to challenge RPI?  Didn't they go 0-2 in the LL tournament last year and were out?  Oh yeah, they did.  That really is an amazing team to be returning most of.

[Jim Dixon]

Does a Rochester fan run this site?  They are picked as the darkhorse in the New York Regional and are going to challenge RPI?  Didn't they go 0-2 in the LL tournament last year and were out?  Oh yeah, they did.  That really is an amazing team to be returning most of.

Rochester will certainly have a glass slipper on if they win the NY Regional.  RPI has always been the team to beat and nothing has changed this year.

[pavanyks]

No one picked rochester in the whole thread.  I did see folks picking RPI, and Skidmore for the LIBERTY LEAGUE not new york regional.

No reference to NY regional at all in this thead.  My comments were in reference to Liberty League.

[VictoryLane]

The reference was not to your posts, but it looks like d3baseball.coms new york region write up on the home page of d3baseball.com.    They listed Rochester as a dark horse for region and good chance in liberty league.  They have the pitching, and defense was good last year statistically.   

Power, Speed, and making "great" plays defensively and getting DP will be the key to their success.  Their pitching staff returns, but thye don't get lots of runs.  So it will sound funny but defense has to improve.

I still like Cortland or Ithaca in New York, and RPI for LL championship.

[BoomerIL]

pavanyks....

You mentioned in your post yesterday that Rochester needed to improve upon their power hitting, which I totally agree with.  You also mentioned that they needed to improve upon their "up the middle" defense.  Did I, am I missing something???  They turned a bunch of double plays, and their outfield defense was very, very good.  Could you please clarify what you said?

You also mentioned in an earlier post that RPI was going to miss Driemiller.  Could you clarify that as well?

Thanks

[Bob Maxwell]

SUNYAC fan here... but it is Great to see the lively discussion about the 2008 Liberty League season...  Darkhorse means they are a long shot to win the regional, so I think Rochester fits that not to win the conference...  And I think they will be one of 4 or 5 teams who are definitely in the mix to win the Liberty League AQ.

Only 15 days until the first SUNYAC starts play... when does the first Liberty team hit the field?

[anonymous234]

Let's break this down a little more to get to the bottom of things:

Vassar and Union were not very good last year, so it is hard to see them making a huge jump, but you never know, maybe they surprise this year.

Clarkson was not very good either last year, but perhaps they can bounce back with improved defense/pitching because they did have a good offense last year.

St. Lawrence was very good last year, but lost a lot of their team (Engebretson, etc.), so we'll have to wait and see if people can step in and perform to put St. Law back near the top.

RPI was very good last year and returns most of their team (Zongol, Driemiller, etc), so they will be tough.

Rochester was good last year, but behind Veenema, their starters were nothing spectacular, and their offense was not great, but return most of their team, so they should be tough.

And that leaves Skidmore, the defending LL champion.  I think it is hard to judge them because their regular season was nothing spectacular, but they obviously picked it up at the end.  However, their regular season did not include their best pitcher (Reilly, due to injury) for most of the season and their short stop (Brown, due to injury) for most of the season.  And also did not have their number two pitcher for the end of the season (Naslund) because of injury.  Now to project them for this year, they only lost 2 seniors, so they (like the people's fave Rochester), return most of their team that did a lot of things well.  Hopefully they wont have the injury bug hit them like it did last year and they can have their very good pitching staff and very good offense together for much of the season.

Just thought a real preview was necessary, any thoughts?  The LL should be very competitive as it normally is.

[pavanyks]

pavanyks....

You mentioned in your post yesterday that Rochester needed to improve upon their power hitting, which I totally agree with.  You also mentioned that they needed to improve upon their "up the middle" defense.  Did I, am I missing something???  They turned a bunch of double plays, and their outfield defense was very, very good.  Could you please clarify what you said?

You also mentioned in an earlier post that RPI was going to miss Driemiller.  Could you clarify that as well?

Thanks
[/quote

My Bad on Driemiller he was a freshmen last year.  RPI is one of few teams with JV system which i think give them an edge.

Rochester is going to be tough.  Defensively I believe they were second in league with DP last year.  Give pitchers some credit for that.  I looked up rochesters stats from last year they were second from last in batting average .268 but surprisingly 2nd in run production with 211.  So despite only 2 HR they are efficient scoring runs.   The pitchers were second in the league in strikeouts, but gave up the Most BB balls.   So if they cut down on the walks, and force players to hit more you will just need better D.  They were the best on defensve but as pitchers stop walking players, they will have to get them out with the gloves.  I think their middle with the two kids from Victor and Stein are pretty solid.  So those 3 kids are all returning.  And 3b played every game last year.  They did lose 1b, by they have quite a few guys that can play 1b.   

So when i say defense ahs to improve, i mean in context of PO, Assists, and more DP and that will happen by pitchers giving up less BB.   

[BaseB13]

Why don't I throw some sense in to this conversation.  No offense to Vassar and Union, but after two consecutive seasons with less than 10 overall wins, it's difficult to imagine them making a leap to the top of the conference in one year.  Don't think there's been a team to go from last place in the conference to first place in the conference since Skidmore did it in 2005, and they've hung around the top since then.  So, not to bash their programs, but they're probably not going to be winning it.

Remaining teams leaves you with Clarkson who won a meager 7 games last year (6 of which were in conference).. They'll need some massive improvement as well to compete for the league championship.. Maybe even a stud pitcher to fall in to their lap again like that Nolan kid back in the late 90's.. Doubt that'll happen.  So they're more than likely not going to be in the conference tournament unless the remaining four teams get banged up or stumble along the way.  I do wonder what happened to their program.. Ever since their "Fabulous 4" pitchers or whatever joke name they were known as graduated, they just havent been the same.  Never could win the big one when they had the horses to do it.  

RPI - Obviously the perennial favorite to win the conference.  They seem to be good at winning the regular season title when it's apparent their hitters are the best at beating on teams number 3 and 4's.  Tournament play rolls around though and they seem to meet their match against other teams aces.  It's been how many years since they won the conference?  I guess theyre always the favorite but, "what have you done for me lately red hawks?".. Their only NCAA appearance was an at large bid the first year the field expanded.  If it weren't for that they wouldn't have tasted regional play since '04.  (Not a fan of the expanded NCAA field personally, not with the odd goofy numbers anyways)

St Lawrence - Looks like they've graduated Kerr, Gipson, Engebereon, and Yaworsky which have been staples in the line up/rotation for the last few years.  Looks like they have some big holes to fill.  However, Coach Fay always seems to have his team atleast in the middle of the pack.. I'd guess they take the 4 seed in the tournament, and even with this seed, they'll put up a fight.  They always do.

Skidmore - Looks like they only graduated Salamone and Hutchison.. Replacing 30+ stolen bases is tough from Hutchison, but let's be serious, Coach Plourde always seems have the Thouroughbreds swiping a ton of bases regardless of who's on the team.  Do they ever not steal 100 bases a year?  Looks like Salamone was one of their go to power hitters but again, 2 sticks can be replaced.  The big question for Skidmore is, can they stay healthy?  Based on their performance in the LL Tourney last year, they have 3 arms that can win the big games. If theyre healthy and an additional arm or two steps up in the rotation, their pitching is as strong as anyones and they return a team that finished hitting .300 after NCAA play.

Rochester - Looks like there's a lot of people on this board hoping, praying, doing just about anything to get a Liberty League Conference Tournament victory.  What are they now? 0 - 10 in Tourney play?  Makes you wonder if they'll ever produce a team that's as solid as their NCAA Tourney team in '99.  Looks like they lost their #3 starter Noon.  Can't really tell who their #4 was.  We don't even need to talk about who/if they graduated anyone from their lineup because let's be serious, the offense was anemic.  They'll need some new bats infused into that lineup if they want to contend.  The top of their rotation is strong, but in the end it hasnt been able to win a liberty league game yet.  I mean they did lose 17 - 0 two years ago in round 1.  That doesn't say much in the opening game of LL Play to have your ace give up SEVENTEEN runs.  Last year was much more respectable but again, I dont care how good your pitching is if you hit .250.  

So my prediction is this, regular season standings will end with 1) Rpi 2) Skidmore 3) Rochester 4) St Lawrence 5) Clarkson 6) Union 7) Vassar

I'll give RPI the benefit of the doubt with that one spot but I think the loss of a guy like Pollard and some pitching makes them suspect.  I'd have no problem putting Skidmore in the 1 with RPI down in the 2 or 3 slot but let's give them one more chance to actually win the conference when they're the one seed.  However, when it comes to the conference play.. I have a tough time betting against a team that is 6 - 0 in Tourney Play, ran the table last year with a team of freshmen and sophomores and basically graduated nobody.  Skidmore will win the conference tournament (Assuming they stay healthy).  Rochester fans you'll put up a battle because of your pitching but you'll go down due to feeble hitting. (Maybe you'll get a LL Tourney win for the first time).  I'd like to think the conference will improve from last year because some of the overall records were abysmal.  However, when teams are playing 24 games against eachother it makes it difficult to have the overall record of the conference be too great.  

I think whoever wins will still struggle overcoming Cortland in the NCAA tournament.  I don't care who they graduated, they have an army of players on their team.  The sheer number of players on some of those state school rosters is ridiculous.  You never know.  Regardless of who wins the confernence, Let's Go Liberty League (which by the way is one of the dumbest names ever, UCAA was much cooler).

[BaseB13]

Quote from pavanyks:  They were the best on defensve but as pitchers stop walking players, they will have to get them out with the gloves.  I think their middle with the two kids from Victor and Stein are pretty solid.  So those 3 kids are all returning.  And 3b played every game last year.


I am hoping you are only referring to defense with this statement.  No offense, and I'm simply stating facts but one of the players you mentioned went 8 for 61.  I don't call that "solid" at all.  Infact, I would hope that if anyone was hitting below .150 with that many at bats that they'd be AMAZING defensively.  Surprised coach stuck with someone that long.  Didn't they have anyone else to put out there?  Another middle infielder had three at bats.  Maybe he should have gotten a few more looks.

[VictoryLane]

I agree with your comments.  RPI are favorites. 

Do any of these teams have any Freshmen that can see time in 2008?

[NYBB]

UofR should let McEaneny hit.  the kid can mash.

[VictoryLane]

High school kids don't bat these days, let alone colleges. 

This ain't 1980.  Its 2007.  Its a different game.

[BoomerIL]

pavanyks....

Thanks for the clarification.

anonymous234.....BaseB13.....

The batting average for Rochester was extremely low, granted.  They did have several freshman as regulars play last season that contributed.  This year seems to have a few more freshman that could get into the line-up as well.  Defensively, they have improved their infield defense, by how much, I don't know, but the competition is there for playing time.  It has gotten stronger.  The same can be said for the outfield positions.  More competition for field time.  It all boils down to who is hitting.  Ha-ha, go ahead and laugh, but you know what I mean.  Those players that hit, will see time over those that don't, whether they are good defensively or not.  That's the way it has been in baseball for almost ever.  "If you hit, you will play".  Those are my words!!

As far as the LL tournament is concerned, I don't have an answer for that.  Last year saw the team virtually stop hitting when they were near the end of the season.  It's a mystery!  As far as the 17-0 defeat two years ago, there were internal reasons on the team that created that poor performance which I won't discuss here.  Last season they did score a lot of runs without any big hitting numbers, and will continue to work to improve on their hitting and on-base percentages.  This season looks brighter with some players that were not on the team that should improve the offensive stats.  This includes a player that was a injured redshirt, a transfer, and several freshman.  I hope I'm right in what I saw in the fall and what I'm hearing from within.

RPI and St.Lawrence are always tough, not to leave out Skidmore, but to me, how Rochester plays against Cortland, Brockport, Ithaca, and St.John Fisher means more.  Yes, conference wins are what gets you to the tournament, but wins or respectable outings (I hate to think this way about outings) against the Cortlands, etc., tells me more about the quality of the team.  I have always felt that any-team-on-any-given-day-can-beat-another-team.  How Rochester plays against those teams, and especially against the conference teams will be most interesting to me and should make a big difference. 

NYBB.....

I couldn't agree with you more!!!  Will you be in Florida?