BB: Central Region Rankings

[acvikings]

Augustana's strength numbers will take a major hit by the next regional rankings. They won a DH against Knox who is last in the MWC, won a DH against Dubuque who is in the bottom 4 in the IIAC, and should win all three against Millikin this weekend who is last in the CCIW.

Augie's only chance of making the conference tournament is Illinois Wesleyan losing all three to North Central (put's IWU at 9 losses in conference) or North Park losing all three to Carthage (put's Augie and NPU in a tie with Conference losses which would cause them to make up their last game of the series). I believe these are the only way that Augie gets into the Conference Tourney. If they do not make the Conference Tourney I have a hard time seeing them getting a Pool C.

[Hound Dog]

I do not know who is on the committee, but I have been told that it is coaches from different schools, in each of the regional conferences.   The people on this board that seem to know the in and out's of this process have painted the picture that these rankings are strictly a numbers game.  (In-region winning % and SOS.)  I would hope that some head to head results and coaches opinions play a part as well.  In the end, those coaches, from those conference schools, have to speak up for the best representatives from their conference.  Sounds like NP and NC are not getting any love from the CCIW coaches.  Looks like most of the people on this board are saying the numbers are invalid and that the numbers are giving undeserving teams more credit than they should get.  Maybe the fans on this board should decide the rankings.  HA HA HA   At the end of the season lets all just hope that the Central region has some deserving teams to get Pool C bids.  If no one has respectable #'s the national committee will not take any of them from our region.   If the "better teams" (in the opinion of this board) are ranked, but have crappy #'s, then we will only be cheering for our AQ's
Kind of funny I don't remember anyone feeling bad for Webster when they had a crappy SOS and the best record in the region.  O-ya that's because they are not part of the almighty CCIW. 

I would guess that Webster prefers it this way.  They have proven that they can hang with anyone in the Central region over the past 4 years and have flown under the radar the entire time.  There is something to be said for a team entering the playoffs with a "nothing to lose" attitude as opposed to a team that feels glorified with a meaningless #1 regional ranking (see IWU the past 4 years).  I will go back over the past 4-5 years and check, but I don't remember that last #1 or #2 seed heading into the Central Regional that actually advanced to the World Series.  If there has been one, they are in the minority.

[BigPoppa]

There is still a chance for the top 4 teams in the CCIW standings to make their resumes significantly better this weekend, even if they are not ideally positioned after this ranking.  North Park has 3 against Carthage while North Central has 3 against IWU. 

Even as a huge IWU fan, I cannot figure out how in the world they are #2.  Having watched them play a number of times this year, they do not pass the eye test for me as being a top 2 regional team.  They have no depth on the mound which has resulted in some very bad non-conference losses and only 2 notable non-conference wins (doubleheader sweep of an unranked webster team).

Carthage will also get a bump from a MONDAY game with Aurora (ranked #6 in Midwest... even if they fall out, "once ranked, always ranked" still applies)

[Gregory Sager]

I do not know who is on the committee, but I have been told that it is coaches from different schools, in each of the regional conferences.   The people on this board that seem to know the in and out's of this process have painted the picture that these rankings are strictly a numbers game.  (In-region winning % and SOS.)  I would hope that some head to head results and coaches opinions play a part as well.  In the end, those coaches, from those conference schools, have to speak up for the best representatives from their conference.  Sounds like NP and NC are not getting any love from the CCIW coaches.  Looks like most of the people on this board are saying the numbers are invalid and that the numbers are giving undeserving teams more credit than they should get.  Maybe the fans on this board should decide the rankings.  HA HA HA   At the end of the season lets all just hope that the Central region has some deserving teams to get Pool C bids.  If no one has respectable #'s the national committee will not take any of them from our region.   If the "better teams" (in the opinion of this board) are ranked, but have crappy #'s, then we will only be cheering for our AQ's
Kind of funny I don't remember anyone feeling bad for Webster when they had a crappy SOS and the best record in the region.  O-ya that's because they are not part of the almighty CCIW. 

Your sarcasm fails to take note of the fact that neither of the two posters who most frequently represent NPU on the baseball boards, myself and Mr. B, protested the exclusion of the Vikings from the rankings. In fact, I directed my comments at the inexplicable rise of Illinois Wesleyan and the equally inexplicable fall of Carthage from last week to this week.

[Gregory Sager]

Augustana's strength numbers will take a major hit by the next regional rankings. They won a DH against Knox who is last in the MWC, won a DH against Dubuque who is in the bottom 4 in the IIAC, and should win all three against Millikin this weekend who is last in the CCIW.

Augie's only chance of making the conference tournament is Illinois Wesleyan losing all three to North Central (put's IWU at 9 losses in conference) or North Park losing all three to Carthage (put's Augie and NPU in a tie with Conference losses which would cause them to make up their last game of the series). I believe these are the only way that Augie gets into the Conference Tourney.

Incorrect. Augie took two out of three from Carthage, which means that Augie gets the fourth seed and Carthage is left out in the cold if the two teams end up in a 13-8 tie for fourth at the completion of the CCIW slate. And that scenario would happen should Augie sweep Millikin while NPU sweeps Carthage, followed by an Augie win over NPU in the makeup game at Holmgren AC.

[BigPoppa]

Let's hope that NEVER happens... 

[Gregory Sager]

Let's hope that NEVER happens... 

I'm willing to hope it, if in exchange you hope that his second scenario doesn't happen.

If his first scenario happens, I doubt that either you or I would shed any tears over Augie replacing IWU among the CCIW's Final Four.

[BigPoppa]

Let's hope that NEVER happens... 

I'm willing to hope it, if in exchange you hope that his second scenario doesn't happen.

If his first scenario happens, I doubt that either you or I would shed any tears over Augie replacing IWU among the CCIW's Final Four.

Agreed, but neither IWU, nor Augie, scare me as much as NPU does. I have said it all season, they are the type of team that is built to beat Carthage.

[Hound Dog]

Following up on my previous post/claim:

Central Regional Finals:

2007:  #3 Carthage over #6 Augustana (Pool A qualifier won the regional)
2008:  #5 Linfield over #6 Webster (Pool A qualifier won the regional)
2009:  #1 Carthage over #3 UW-Whitewater  (Pool A qualifier won the regional)
2010:  #6 IWU over #1 Buena Vista (Pool A qualifier won the regional)


Given these results, the committee does seem to miss the mark when it comes to rankings/pool C bids.  
In regard to the most recent 2011 Central Region Rankings, maybe the joke's on us for trying to apply logic to an apparently illogical process that has produced unsuccessful results for the past 4 years.

[CCIWFAN6]

Let's hope that NEVER happens... 

I'm willing to hope it, if in exchange you hope that his second scenario doesn't happen.

If his first scenario happens, I doubt that either you or I would shed any tears over Augie replacing IWU among the CCIW's Final Four.

Agreed, but neither IWU, nor Augie, scare me as much as NPU does. I have said it all season, they are the type of team that is built to beat Carthage.

Unless you are paired with IWU in the first game and have to face Pankau.  While you are not knocked out after 1 game, that is a long way back after a defeat in the first game.

[CCIWFAN6]

Following up on my previous post/claim:

Central Regional Finals:

2007:  #3 Carthage over #6 Augustana (Pool A qualifier won the regional)
2008:  #5 Linfield over #6 Webster (Pool A qualifier won the regional)
2009:  #1 Carthage over #3 UW-Whitewater  (Pool A qualifier won the regional)
2010:  #6 IWU over #1 Buena Vista (Pool A qualifier won the regional)


Given these results, the committee does seem to miss the mark when it comes to rankings/pool C bids.  
In regard to the most recent 2011 Central Region Rankings, maybe the joke's on us for trying to apply logic to an apparently illogical process that has produced unsuccessful results for the past 4 years.

To me logic would say that the Pool A teams would have a better opportunity to win a regional having just come off a conference tournament victory.  Baseball is a game where the best team doesn't always win, but the hot team normally does.  Conference tournament winners would qualify as a hot team. I don't think anyone in the country would have argued with IWU being the 6th seed last year even though they were a Pool A qualifier.

Pool C bids are based on who the committee feels had the best season while failing to win their conference tournament.

[BigPoppa]

Let's hope that NEVER happens... 

I'm willing to hope it, if in exchange you hope that his second scenario doesn't happen.

If his first scenario happens, I doubt that either you or I would shed any tears over Augie replacing IWU among the CCIW's Final Four.

Agreed, but neither IWU, nor Augie, scare me as much as NPU does. I have said it all season, they are the type of team that is built to beat Carthage.

Unless you are paired with IWU in the first game and have to face Pankau.  While you are not knocked out after 1 game, that is a long way back after a defeat in the first game.

I never said they didn't scare me at all, just not as much. Pankau keeps me up at night... shades of what Jay Arendt used to do to me in the mid 90s. (and we dare not speak of he who shall not be named... Ricky EFFING Angel)

[Hound Dog]

Following up on my previous post/claim:

Central Regional Finals:

2007:  #3 Carthage over #6 Augustana (Pool A qualifier won the regional)
2008:  #5 Linfield over #6 Webster (Pool A qualifier won the regional)
2009:  #1 Carthage over #3 UW-Whitewater  (Pool A qualifier won the regional)
2010:  #6 IWU over #1 Buena Vista (Pool A qualifier won the regional)


Given these results, the committee does seem to miss the mark when it comes to rankings/pool C bids.  
In regard to the most recent 2011 Central Region Rankings, maybe the joke's on us for trying to apply logic to an apparently illogical process that has produced unsuccessful results for the past 4 years.

To me logic would say that the Pool A teams would have a better opportunity to win a regional having just come off a conference tournament victory.  Baseball is a game where the best team doesn't always win, but the hot team normally does.  Conference tournament winners would qualify as a hot team. I don't think anyone in the country would have argued with IWU being the 6th seed last year even though they were a Pool A qualifier.

Pool C bids are based on who the committee feels had the best season while failing to win their conference tournament.

Agreed on all of your points.  Whether the committee has done a poor job or there is just that much parody in the Central Region, I guess I was just pointing out the irrelevance of the pool C teams the past 4 years in response to the complaints over the most recent rankings.  Odds are that a Pool A team will be playing the best ball and will win the regional.  Therefore, if someone is unhappy with their current ranking then they just need to take care of business on the field and eliminate the element of arbitrary mathematical calculations.

[upandin]

Couldn't agree more.  The system we have for pool C is flawed but fair.  Pool A should be the focus.

[Ralph Turner]

Couldn't agree more.  The system we have for pool C is flawed but fair.  Pool A should be the focus.

Imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth if we only had 3 Pool C bids, as we did in the early part of the last decade.