Division III football rivalries

[K-Mack]

Except the Ivies also schedule out of conference. The Ivies this year played:

Duquense
Fordham
Bucknell
Colgate
Holy Cross
Lafayette
Lehigh
Georgetown
New Hampshire
Marist
Villanova
Rhode Island
Hampton

Are you telling me the NESCAC couldn't come out and play with schools in the East if the Ivies can?

I meant to post about this when I read about it.

The Princeton-Hampton game was supposed to be significant in that it was one of the first in years, if not the first ever, to match an Ivy and an HBCU.

And immediately I thought the same thing, well if the Ivies can do that -- and the quote from the Princeton AD was something along the lines of wanting his players to have a varied experience that they'd appreciate -- the NESCAC most certainly can.

Now if it doesn't want to, that's fine, that's their business. They are still D3 in every other way.

The real hypocrisy I see with them is that their other teams in other sports can chase championships and play non-conference.

I think the smartest kids in D3 could manage however many football games their school scheduled, plus the rigors of academia, but that's just my opinion.

[K-Mack]

My phrasing of 'something else entirely' was meant to suggest that THAT was my real quibble.  If they play NO other d3 teams EVER, are they really a part of d3 football?  Seems to me they are (contra Donne) an island unto themselves.

They have that right, of course, and I am not questioning their d3 bona fides overall, but (IMO) they have chosen NOT to be in d3 football.

That's fair.

[K-Mack]

Nescac was formed in 1971. Before that date all Nescac-to-be colleges played non-Nescac-to-be colleges, including (for some Nescac-to-be colleges) Ivies, and for a few years after that date some and possibly all Nescac colleges played non-Nescac colleges.

So confused. And so done with this discussion.

(is not NESCAC material)

[frank uible]

It is proposed that from a football standpoint each Nescac college withdraw from both Nescac and the NCAA, both of which are controlling abominations, and independently of each other do what they damn well please.

[redswarm81]

[I suspect the UAA may have some other issues with his post as well.]

I think that U.S. News and World Report has come down on the side of NESCAC v. UAA.

Although that's the standard that the general public, myself included, often seems to go by, there are those within the academic community who believe that -- gasp! -- the magazine's rankings are not the final word on quality of institution.

Particularly with regard to some of the factors in the rankings regarding prestige and some of the methodology US News & World Report uses.

However, only if you are really interested in such matters should you further divert this thread from Division III rivalries.

I believe there's a Future of Division III board under General Division III issues which might be a better home for this type of blather. And I mean that in a nice way.

What?  Isn't NESCAC v. UAA just the kind of rivalry that the NCAA Division III ought to promote?   

[hickory_cornhusker]

i see the NESCAC like puerto rico. puerto rico obeys the laws of the United States, they are part of the United States but they do not particpate in the United States Government nor are they considered a state. the NESCAC is certainly part of d3 but they are not really the same as a normal conference of d3 football because they do not particpate with other conference in the playoffs or the regualar season. they're different like puerto rico is different.

[Knightstalker]

NESCAC = NCAA DIII territory, I like that analogy.

[smedindy]

Except the Ivies also schedule out of conference. The Ivies this year played:

Duquense
Fordham
Bucknell
Colgate
Holy Cross
Lafayette
Lehigh
Georgetown
New Hampshire
Marist
Villanova
Rhode Island
Hampton

Are you telling me the NESCAC couldn't come out and play with schools in the East if the Ivies can?

I meant to post about this when I read about it.

The Princeton-Hampton game was supposed to be significant in that it was one of the first in years, if not the first ever, to match an Ivy and an HBCU.

And immediately I thought the same thing, well if the Ivies can do that -- and the quote from the Princeton AD was something along the lines of wanting his players to have a varied experience that they'd appreciate -- the NESCAC most certainly can.

Now if it doesn't want to, that's fine, that's their business. They are still D3 in every other way.

The real hypocrisy I see with them is that their other teams in other sports can chase championships and play non-conference.

I think the smartest kids in D3 could manage however many football games their school scheduled, plus the rigors of academia, but that's just my opinion.

BINGO! The winter sports lose more important class time since they straddle two semesters, and I know baseball and other spring sports sometimes have elongated schedules and also play in both the FALL and the SPRING.

So don't go there with this football purity - it's purely elistism - otherwise none of the NESCAC would be in post-season competition.

[frank uible]

Now that we have thoroughly flogged Nescac, can we move to some subordinate concern on our agenda like attacking world starvation?

[Knightstalker]

Now that we have thoroughly flogged Nescac, can we move to some subordinate concern on our agenda like attacking world starvation?

Lets kick them a few times first to make sure they are down and out.

[runyr]

i see the NESCAC like puerto rico. puerto rico obeys the laws of the United States, they are part of the United States but they do not particpate in the United States Government nor are they considered a state. the NESCAC is certainly part of d3 but they are not really the same as a normal conference of d3 football because they do not particpate with other conference in the playoffs or the regualar season. they're different like puerto rico is different.

+k for that brilliant analogy.  I like it.  Kick, kick, yeah, I think they're down and out for this discussion.
Wait, it should be mentioned that caught cheater like Bill Belichick attended an NESCAC school.  I assume he learned to cheat there, right?  [kick]

[HScoach]

Now that we have thoroughly flogged Nescac, can we move to some subordinate concern on our agenda like attacking world starvation?

Sure.  Don't live in a desert.

NEXT PROBLEM?

[Knightstalker]

Now that we have thoroughly flogged Nescac, can we move to some subordinate concern on our agenda like attacking world starvation?

Sure.  Don't live in a desert.

NEXT PROBLEM?

Or the frozen artic tundra.

[K-Mack]

NESCAC = NCAA DIII territory, I like that analogy.

Yeah, the PR thing was good.

And right on Smedindy.

[DagarmanSpartan]

Gang,

I realize that the NESCAC may not participate in the playoffs, ostensibly for "academic elitism" reasons, but my question there is........WHY NOT???

In my view, the UAA is an academically VERY strong conference, and its champions have participated in the playoffs each of the last two seasons, without diminishing either school's academic prestige.  Given that, why would the NESCAC schools believe that participating in the Division III playoffs is somehow beneath their stations as academic institutions?

As for rivalries, I personally am partial to the annual Case v. Carnegie-Mellon grudge match.  Cleveland vs. Pittsburgh in the so-called "Academic Bowl."