Division III football rivalries

[wabashcpa]

I don't know about a whole barracks worth, but there are certainly no shortage of police at the games (or puking for that matter).  I do know that we have freshmen guarding the campus all week to keep out unwanted guests from the south (unless they are female!!).

And Keith, the game IS better in Crawfordsville!   It's not even close.

The SI article was mentioned earlier - I believe one thing that helps the rivalry has been the media.  Between magazine articles and televised games, I believe the Monon Bell game has benefited greatly from the exposure.  That may be what gives it a slight edge over some of the other regional rivalries.

[Ryan Tipps]

My understanding is that the battalions of police officers really hit full stride about 10 years ago, roughly my freshman year (though there's no connection, of course ).

Wabash had won the Bell for four or five years in a row in the early '90s, but then DePauw went on a streak. In '96 and '98, years the game was at Wabash, DePauw won the game and fans -- on BOTH sides -- stormed the field. There were fights and stadium damage, and several people, including friends of mine, were pepper-sprayed.

That seemed to be when people really started noticing things and wondering why a bunch of liberal arts students were tearing at each other's throats each year in November. If I remember right, The New York Times and Indianapolis Star wrote stories to that effect in the late '90s, and the administration started talking about "what if" the rivalry was suspended.

Things have toned down since then....there hasn't been any significant brawls in recent years, though the security is still pretty hefty. The worst part is that, yes, alcohol has contributed to violence, but I think people would still have fought even if they were stone sober.

I'll finish by recollecting a Wabash/DePauw basketball game I went to at DePauw's campus...circa 1999. There were as many Wabash students as DePauw students packed into that gym, and between us was a menacing cadre of SWAT officers decked out in riot gear. This wasn't even the football game, but seeing them with their helmets, body armor and batons really put the rivalry's intensity into perspective for me.

[wally_wabash]

'96 and '98 were definitely not good years for the Monon Bell series.  I think the behavior of the fans has gotten much better since '98...due in part to the seriously beefed up security and also to the alleged rumblings of possibly postponing the series altogether....nobody wants that.  I think a lot of nerves about the future of the series were set at ease in the '01 game which ended with the hail mary touchdown pass for a Wabash victory...Wabash students poured on to the field, but stayed away from any destructive behavior.  It was such a huge moment that really just about anything could have been possible (especially given that the Bell was changing hands based on that play), but the fans kept their fists to themselves, both teams shook hands after the game and all has been well ever since. 

I remember those Wabash/DePauw hoops games from '96-'00...those games could get downright nasty.  Rivalry hoops is a LOT of fun.  A lot of the intensity of the Wabash/DePauw hoops rivalry has been taken away since DePauw left for the SCAC.  That they're in a different conference now means that the games themselves don't pack as much meaning, we only play once per season, those games are usually falling at bad times for spectators (on holiday breaks or finals weeks), and DePauw has had control of the series for a little while now. 

[Jonny Utah]

( I know Im being lazy) but how far apart are the two schools?

And I think if Wabash wins on the road, the student body should have the nation's biggest pantyraid across campus to let off whatever steam I can only imagine those guys have. 

I think it would be acceptable.

[smedindy]

They're only 27 miles apart, and there's no need to let off steam. Wabash men usually date the Dannie women anyway!

In the 80's there were some pretty ugly scenes as well, mainly at DePauw. I think the layout of their stadium and the need for some crowd control limits their ticket sales more than at Wabash.

And no Wally pukes in the parking lot because they know how to hold their liquor!

[Jonny Utah]

They're only 27 miles apart, and there's no need to let off steam. Wabash men usually date the Dannie women anyway!

In the 80's there were some pretty ugly scenes as well, mainly at DePauw. I think the layout of their stadium and the need for some crowd control limits their ticket sales more than at Wabash.

Ok whats a 'dannie'?

And that would still make a great movie (no matter how true it is).  All mens school wins the football game and the entire team just runs out of the stadium and starts harrassing women! (not mysoginistic like but like "animal house" like)

[smedindy]

Dannie - someone from DePauw. Wally Wabash - Danny DePauw.

It's also a "dandy", you know, like Dan Quayle!

[wally_wabash]

Ok whats a 'dannie'?

The important thing to know is that you don't want to be one.   

[K-Mack]

Well, Wabash being the all-men's side of the rivalry, I guess I'm a DePauw guy by extension. Randolph-Macon went co-ed in '72, and we rock the black and gold. All-men's Hampden-Sydney wears the garnet and gray (not far from red & White)

H-SC has its own "sister" schools when it comes to women though; the ride from Farmville to Ashland is a little longer than 27 miles.

In any case, on the ODAC board, we've been discussing the decline of the R-MC/H-SC rivalry, basically because of dual six-game winning streaks for each side, and a lack of competitiveness the past four years. As conference rivals, something DePauw and Wabash don't share, the game is often more fun when the ODAC title is on the line.

Anyway, the intensity is through the roof at R-MC/H-SC, Wabash-DePauw and Cortland-Ithaca, and by intensity I mostly mean "violence" ... I wonder if our higher-browed brethren at Williams and Amherst have this same issues (thinks so)

Fight stories aren't really much to be proud of, but I'll copy mine over here from the ODAC board just to show you where the rivalry stands. Or stood.

[K-Mack]

It may be a little out of context if you pick up in the middle like this, and there are a few insider references ... but you should get the gist:

I think the H-SC rivalry has gotten a little less intense, but honestly, in some ways, its better (I'll explain one why it is).  I don't know if any of you were there, but the HSC-RMC game in 2003 (freshman year for me), HSC ran into the locker room through our warm-ups.  Our coaches that year had told us not to take any crap from them, so as they came back on the field, through our warm-ups again, all hell broke loose. 

I mean, everyone started fighting.  Coaches, refs, players.  To me at that point it was defending our honor, and, as a player that didn't play, quite fun.  Looking at it now, and at other similar incidents (Miami, FIU; Clemson, SC), it was a stupid move by both teams.  Although the rivalry is still strong, and I still won't hire an HSC grad or hang out with one  , I'm glad both coaches have tried to turn down the physical intensity off of the field between us. 

That was stupid. R-M got a starting senior lb ejected, got whipped 53-21 and Boone was fired in the off-season.

I was at that game. I have a vague memory of that now that you mention it, but I think I was a little slow getting over from the tailgate for kickoff so I didn't see the whole thing.

But I can tell you that it's nothing new. In '95, we met up in the same end zone, before there was a Brock Center at that end. No blows were thrown, but it was crazy heated. I knew I wasn't starting that day, so I went right to the front of the pack. The main guy I was jawing with was a guy who had stayed with my roommate and I the year before on a prospective visit, Vipperman was the name. He had picked H-SC over us.

That may be a better indication of the closeness of the rivalry than the fact we were jawing at each other.

There's a million R-MC/H-SC fight stories, you should find out about how the teams used to tear the goalposts down if they won on the road, til they started surrounding the goalposts with state police. The basketball game has its stories too, slashed tires on the H-SC team van one year after they won in Crenshaw. They poured grass killer in the shape of an HSC on our field in '95, I think ... idiots though, they ran out before they could finish the C.

Do the history, or maybe we really do need to get on that book, Jacket Lawyer. The old stories are great. There used to be an RMC contingent that would go down and try to paint the old War Eagle or whatever it was called. Or steal it.

The best R-MC story I heard from one of the old timers was one year some HSC kids came up to vandalize the campus, went through with it and were pretty thrilled with themselves until they returned to their car and found the engine dismantled.

Course, they probably tell that same story at H-SC, only flipped.

Back in the all-men days at R-MC too, all freshmen had to wear beanies first semester, but if they beat H-SC, they could take them off.

All that fight stuff does indicate that something heated is there, but that's really nothing to be proud of. Competitiveness is healthy, violence not so much. I know both administrations and parts of the student body have gone to great lengths over the years to bring positive benefits out of the rivalry, like the blood drive (whoever donates more ... gets something, a point in the week-long competition, I forget)

Of course, some of us still prefer the grass-killing and engine dismantling. And 49-18 wins.

     K-Mack...as I understand it,that eagle was donated by an H-S alum and came from a rail station  in Philly. That's your stomping grounds isn't it? Not sure who's bright idea it was to put it right next to the football field.  I would be more than happy to offer a more appropriate place.  I remember it being painted many times over the years. I think they finally coated it with something so they didn't have to sand blast the thing every year.  It was rapidly heading toward nothingness. 
     They tried doing the blood drive/intramural football/Tigers vs Jackets thing to try to get the focus away from all the other stuff. Again, as I understand it, they quit doing the intramural football game because all it did was give everybody an extra 3 or 4 hours to get loaded. (as if they needed assistance)
     There have been so many stories over the years. I just don't remember all this stuff being done years ago with malice. They were just pranks. The world has changed. We live in such a litigious world that everyones "pucker factor" is so much higher than it used to be. As far as I know, nobody was ever seriously hurt as a result of these pranks.  Obviously, now that we are older, wiser, and more mature adults,  8) we can't condone this type of negative behavior. On the other hand, I doubt very seriously, that a 20 year old college student gives a flip about what I think. 

Funny, as always.

I get a kick out of the pranks, but I guess there's a fine line between 'good, clean fun' and causing real harm.

[Jonny Utah]

Yea Ive played in and  been to about 10 Cortland/Ithaca games and I can say that nothing has ever happened between the two teams.  Coaches on both sides have always been classy and would never have their team run through another teams warmups or do something like that.

The fans are another story though.  People bringing whistles to games (actually helped Cortland in 97'), fans comming up to players after the game and throwing stuff them, fans comming up before the game and hurling insults, kids getting pepper sprayed, kids getting attacked by the state police k-9 unit!, and worst of all people going to the hospital.

Im the first one to love seeing a 19 year old girl with a tank top in Novmber puke in a barrell, but when people get hurt its another story.

Some day they will probably have a 2 second breathalyzer and you will have to blow before you go in the game!

[K-Mack]

Don't give 'em any ideas (not that I drink. much.)

I've never seen R-MC run through any warmups either. Not even really sure if H-SC did, just coming over the same end zone by using the same entrance to the field ... you know, you put two unleashed dogs next to each other, there might be a biting incident.

Most of the trouble at those games has been goalpost-related, but the state police had things on lock the last two times I saw a game at death valley. They surrounded the goalposts with police, and maybe even a few horses. I've also seen them break up fights by mauling one particular dude while most of the participants scatter.

But the rivalry is much, much more than fights and stuff. Over time, some of the great games and great moments make for much better storytelling.

[realistic]

yeah - JU is right.  The players (for the most part) in the Cortland - Ithaca games are well behaved.  The fans were getting progressively worse...which was on of the main reasons behind limiting tickets.

As for the K-9 units, I have to say that those idiots usually have what was coming to them.  I was calling play-by-play in the 2001 game and had the Sheriff Dept spotter right next to me.  I kept getting distracted as he called in locations for the ground units to go to....but I had the pleasure of being in a break for the dog attack, watched it develop from the beginning.  quite amusing.

[K-Mack]

Yeah, the fan (of beer, if not football) I saw get mushed face-first into the ground by state police was definitely starting trouble. However, I thought it was slightly unfair that he got several cops on him while everyone else scattered, but those are the chances you take.

I remember one year after we won down there, it appeared our fans and H-SC's were scuffling by the goalposts. With the season over, I was in a group of a few players that went sprinting to join the action. Well, we never quite got up to full sprint. Our DA* coach saw the looks in our eyes and move toward that end zone and immediately said something along the lines of "Oh hell naw, you, you and you get your (expletive)s in that locker room.

And so we did, no questions asked.

* DA = A theory developed by a teammate, The Chief, who believed you always had to have at least one coach on staff willing to be the designated a-hole. He was the guy who told you you sucked, made you run laps, etc. The enforcer, if you will. Marty White happened to be a nice guy, but he was very believeable in that role for us.

I guess that was really a story about the power of the DA than the rivalry.

[DPU3619]

Maybe they feel that's all they can hold (though I remember plenty of open area around the end zones) and all they can provide security for, which is a significant consideration at games of this magnitude.

On my visit, all the Wabash people said "Thanks for coming, but it's better in Crawfordsville."

I don't think it's better, truthfully.  Although my bias is due to being harassed with the same insults and flying beer bottles (didn't know they sold PBR in a bottle) that I'm sure those folks get when they come to Greencastle.  And there's actually a place to park within the county line.

Great to have you a couple years back, Keith.