Division III football rivalries

[billrt66]

I have to say it again.....I've been to rivalry games in my life....several of them.... and I have never seen anything like Franklin and Hanover!!!!  These two teams and their fan bases just simply don't like each other and the fan following and support for both schools in every sport they play is really "off the chart".  Attendance at each school for the game is easily 5000-6000 and there is no ticket limit!!!

[Pat Coleman]

Have you been to Wabash/DePauw? Amherst/Williams? Cortland State/Ithaca?

[smedindy]

I have to say it again.....I've been to rivalry games in my life....several of them.... and I have never seen anything like Franklin and Hanover!!!!  These two teams and their fan bases just simply don't like each other and the fan following and support for both schools in every sport they play is really "off the chart".  Attendance at each school for the game is easily 5000-6000 and there is no ticket limit!!!

Bill -

You need to come see the Hate Fest of the Monon Bell game. Last year over 11,000 at Wabash to see that sucker.

[Ron Boerger]

Really quite amazing how civil the Monon discussion has been the last coupla years, to be honest.  It was pretty ugly (as you might expect given the intensity of the rivalry) the first few years Pat had the site going. 

Also about the only regular-season D3 game to be broadcast nationally (HDNet, Mark Cuban being good for something for once).

[smedindy]

Really quite amazing how civil the Monon discussion has been the last coupla years, to be honest.  It was pretty ugly (as you might expect given the intensity of the rivalry) the first few years Pat had the site going. 

Also about the only regular-season D3 game to be broadcast nationally (HDNet, Mark Cuban being good for something for once).

Here's my theory on why:

Up until the mid 90's, there wasn't much security at the stadium, so during the Bell game people crossed over to the other side (on both sides) and caused mayhem and trouble. Of course, that led to bloodshed. The worst of it came when DePauw won at Wabash, stormed the field to get the Bell, which was on Wabash's side, and then their fans proceeded to try to tear down our goalposts. Well, you can tell that didn't set too well and it got ugly.

But the last several Bell games the fans have been separated by security measures. The fans even enter on opposite sides, and there is an official Bell handoff procedure. So, I think the bad feelings from the mid 90's have subsided, so now it's a respectful kind of hate.

Sort of like Ann Coulter and Al Franken.

[Ron Boerger]

So, I think the bad feelings from the mid 90's have subsided, so now it's a respectful kind of hate.

Sort of like Ann Coulter and Al Franken.

ROFL  ... not much respect, then!   

[billrt66]

K Mack: Thanks very much for the response.  I mean that.  You are absolutely correct about my enthusiasm for the Grizzly program and it may well be that when I attended Franklin, football was a real powerhouse....we played at that time many schools that are now Div. II ( Butler, Evansville, Morehead State, Georgetown (NAIA)....those were the days of Red Faught, who passed away a couple of years ago after a long illness.  Those years produced players like Terry Hoeppner, the coach at Indiana who recently lost his battle with cancer.  Since then, the program has honestly been a bit of a roller coaster....some very good years, and some very mediocre ones.  The late 90s were particularly bad.  In 1998 we recommitted the program to focus on better student athletes, better citizens and facilities that at least were as good as or better than our competition.  Slowly this vision has come to fruition with the success of last season and the successes so far this year.  Franklin is a very small school ( +/- 1100 students) and the athletic program is I think appropriately in "its place" in terms of priorities, as it should be.  The school is experiencing some its "best history" in terms of student quality, endowment growth, academic reputation, etc. and admittedly my enthusiasm may be "gushing out" a little too much!  I will endeavor to be more containbed in my posts so that they don't appear to be a cheerleading session.  Being one of two schools left out of last year's playoffs has made me wna to be a sort of one man lobby!!  Hope you understand!  I really enjoy D3.com....I know it is a labor of love by those of yoou who contribute so much to its success.  BTW, I'm sure you noticed that Franklin did go on the raod yesaterday and knock of Mt. St. Joe 28-19....hope they finally get a little respect!
Bill

[K-Mack]

All:
Just for the record, I sent billrt66 a private message that more or less said he brings great enthuisasm to the board, but I didn't want to see the value of his insight (since there are few other Franklin posters I've seen) get lost in that enthusiasm.

I guess in a sense saying that the gratutitous love for Franklin could eventually cause some people to not take bill as seriously as he probably deserves to be taken.

Perspective is key.

So for everyone out there, keep in mind that most Post Patterns readers often don't know much about your school and the best thing you can do to help/gain the attention of the rest of us is explain what seems unique and exceptional about your neck of the woods.

The above post is a great, great example. I learned a bunch.

Anyway, glad that didn't come off the wrong way.

[redswarm81]

Fun story on the Williams/Amherst rivalry.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2945751

I particularly enjoyed the Rubber Chicken story.

That funny Rubber Chicken story has some parallels to the saga of RPI and the Union end zone cannon in 1978 - 1979:

In the fall of 1978, RPI was suffering a miserable season.  Going into the away "Dutchman's Shoes" Game against Union, RPI was 1-3, with two of the losses by shutout (to Coast Guard on opening day, and to Canisius 40-0).  The team's only win--it was to be RPI's only win of the season--was a 15-9 "barn burner" against Plattsburgh.  If memory serves, Plattsburgh had already announced that its football program would be dropped at the end of the 1978 season.  (Trivbit: Plattsburgh's head coach that final year was Dale Sprague, who had been an assistant at  RPI the year before.)

The weather was miserable in Schenectady on the day of the RPI - Union game, pouring rain all day long.  But soon after the game started, the discomfort of the rain took a back seat to the most irritating aspect of the first half: the boom from Union's cannon, which sounded at all Union scores and kickoffs.  Union shot off the cannon at the opening kickoff, and they shot it off several times after that, as they were heading toward an eventual 27-0 shutout win.

At halftime, both teams headed for the locker room, and the stands emptied as people headed for shelter from the pouring rain.

When play resumed in the second half, Union continued to dominate play, but oddly enough, there were no reports from the cannon.  As it turns out, when the  Union fans returned to the field for the start of the second half, the cannon was nowhere to be found.

A year later, RPI was off to a dramatically improved start, and had a record of 2-0-1 heading into the Battle for the Dutchman's Shoes, which was to be played on the newly reopened '86 Field.  (The construction of the J. Erik Jonsson Engineering Center had forced the football team to play its 1977 and 1978 home games on the soccer field where the Ned Harkness Track and Field currently stands, adjacent to the Houston Field House, home of the RPI hockey team.)  On Saturday October 13, 1979, the weather was clear and sunny in Troy for the big game.

After a slow start by both teams, RPI managed to kick a field goal in the first half, and necks snapped as heads swiveled toward the end zone under the scoreboard, where the sound of a cannon had greeted the kick's pass between the uprights!  From a distance, the cannon looked familiar to Union fans.  They could only look from a distance, however, since the cannon was surrounded by RPI fraternity men standing several deep.

At halftime, the teams left the field, and the  Union undergrads headed in a group toward the cannon.  The closer the Union students got to the cannon, though, the more the RPI men tried to impede their progress.

As many posts on the Liberty League board have attested, neither RPI nor Union students are stupid (although based on many Union posters' grammar and usage I dispute that claim by Union, but I digress  )--both sets of students knew that any actual violence would result in everyone getting kicked off the field.  Thus, the world's quietest and least violent "rumble" ensued: a lot of tugging and pulling, some pushing, but not a single punch thrown, and virtually no words were exchanged.  "It was more like a 'scrum,'" according to one participant who has elected to remain anonymous.

Eventually, inevitably, the commotion caught the attention of Dean of Students Dave Thompson, who directed campus security to confiscate the cannon.  Union won the game 13-3, but for the second consecutive year, there was no cannon during the second half of the RPI - Union football game.

With the cannon safely locked in the equipment cage at the '87 Gym, on Monday October 15 RPI's AD Bob Ducatte contacted Union's AD and arranged for Union to pick up the cannon the following morning.  But the story's not over: when the equipment cage was opened on Tuesday morning, there was no cannon inside(!)

Every gym employee was interrogated--student part-time gym employees most thoroughly--but there were no clues to the cannon's whereabouts.  Campus scuttlebutt spoke of an "interfraternity underground railroad," but no hard evidence was ever collected, and no charges were ever pressed.

Union officials were upset, apparently.  Eventually, the mystery reached the ears of RPI President (and former NASA Apollo Mission Director) George Low.  President Low announced that if the cannon were not returned to Union by noon on Friday October 19, the October 20th home game v. Fairleigh Dickinson would be canceled.  The RPI coaches and athletic staff made requests and threats, but there was still no sign of the cannon on Thursday night.

Then, as dawn broke on the campus of Union College Friday morning October 19, 1979, the first rays of sunshine lit upon a cannon, perched on the 50 yard line of the football field.

I should compose some poetic conclusion to this story, but I'm feeling like Michael Crichton must feel at the end of his novels--that's it.  The end.

A writer for the Albany Times Union/Troy Times Record picked up the story and wrote a pretty good column about it a week or two later.  If anyone in the Capital District were so inclined, he might be able to find a copy of the column on microfilm.

[Ralph Turner]

J Erik Jonsson...

Philanthropist renowned.  One of the founders of Texas Instruments.

Former Mayor of Dallas and the member of the braintrust behind DFW airport, and the creation of the research university that is now UT-Dallas.

A truly great American!

[smedindy]

(Trivbit: Plattsburgh's head coach that final year was Dale Sprague, who had been an assistant at  RPI the year before.)

More trivia : Sprague later was the head BASEBALL coach at Wabash for a few years while I was in school!

[K-Mack]

Who needs a column or Crichton, that story was riveting.

I'm gonna hafta do a D3 rivalry book one of these years.

[redswarm81]

Who needs a column or Crichton, that story was riveting.

I'm gonna hafta do a D3 rivalry book one of these years.

Thanks, it was a fun story to live through as well.

. . . but it hasn't slowed my negative karma.

[K-Mack]

Who needs a column or Crichton, that story was riveting.

I'm gonna hafta do a D3 rivalry book one of these years.

Thanks, it was a fun story to live through as well.

. . . but it hasn't slowed my negative karma.

I got the sense that you may have witnessed, let's say, some of the ongoings in that story.

I'll give you a +1

[redswarm81]

Who needs a column or Crichton, that story was riveting.

I'm gonna hafta do a D3 rivalry book one of these years.

Thanks, it was a fun story to live through as well.

. . . but it hasn't slowed my negative karma.

I got the sense that you may have witnessed, let's say, some of the ongoings in that story.

I'll give you a +1

Obviously, I don't care about the karma.

But on the advice of my attorney, I can neither confirm nor deny your other, . . . senses.   

Hey, F. Lee--when's the statute gonna run?