The Top 10 Eastern Region teams of the D3football.com Era

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are you kidding me.... I Grew up in Amsterdam...as a kid I idolized Justice Smith...I had a copy of the SI issue he was on a long time ago......

I forgot you grew up there - do you know AJ Sainato?

I know of him...he was older than me... I grew up playing soccer with his sister...man she schooled all the guys

He's a good friend of mine. Pledged w/ him at the infamous SUNY school North of Syracuse. From what I hear, he was a good linebacker back in the day.

[Jonny Utah]

I grew up playing soccer with his sister...

Only an SJF guy could truthfully say something like this........

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I grew up playing soccer with his sister...

Only an SJF guy could truthfully say something like this........

Ya ... Super, you should play that stuff closer to the vest.

[superman57]

seriously...it was when we were 8...

[theoriginalupstate]

seriously...it was when we were 8...

yeah, my cousin used to play in a league with girls....

he's gay now, but im sure thats totally unrelated...

[union89]

I grew up playing soccer with his sister...

Only an SJF guy could truthfully say something like this........

+1K

[superman57]

seriously...it was when we were 8...

yeah, my cousin used to play in a league with girls....

he's gay now, but im sure thats totally unrelated...

get the quotes straight she played on an all guys team...because we did not have enough girls to form a girls team...and she was better than all of the guys...I dare you to make fun of her to AJ's face...

[union89]

seriously...it was when we were 8...

yeah, my cousin used to play in a league with girls....

he's gay now, but im sure thats totally unrelated...

get the quotes straight she played on an all guys team...because we did not have enough girls to form a girls team...and she was better than all of the guys...I dare you to make fun of her to AJ's face...

My last girlfriend could kick balls hard too.......

She was good......

[Tags]

seriously...it was when we were 8...

yeah, my cousin used to play in a league with girls....

he's gay now, but im sure thats totally unrelated...

get the quotes straight she played on an all guys team...because we did not have enough girls to form a girls team...and she was better than all of the guys...I dare you to make fun of her to AJ's face...

57, I don't think anyone made fun of his sister.

[JQV]

I grew up playing soccer with his sister...

Only an SJF guy could truthfully say something like this........

And your my new signature JU.  Nicely done.

EDIT:

I am picturing Superman showing John Madden the Annexation of Puerto Rico on his computer while the Ice Box finishes off practice in front of the barn...

[theoriginalupstate]

seriously...it was when we were 8...

yeah, my cousin used to play in a league with girls....

he's gay now, but im sure thats totally unrelated...

get the quotes straight she played on an all guys team...because we did not have enough girls to form a girls team...and she was better than all of the guys...I dare you to make fun of her to AJ's face...

I know, I know....

Just messin...

Young people, so angry these days....

[K-Mack]

very tough call, since winning the east doesn't automatically make you the best team, but winning is everything right? Consider this 'gro taking the easy way out.

Since I've only read up through this post, I'll take the easy way out too, by sitting back and watching what everyone else comes up with. Offseason = I get to play the role of reader.

In any case, in response to the earlier question about the NESCAC, I would say that league compares favorably (as in equally) to some of the other top private school teams in the East Region that I've seen. Hobart '05 is a good example of a team I think top NESCAC teams would have gone toe-to-toe with, and that team went toe-to-toe with the best East teams of that year. I think to make the true East Region list you would have to look at a couple Wiliams teams, including this past year's, and some of those Trinity teams. Not sure if Amherst had an undefeated in the D3 era, but they're worth checking out.

With playoff Ws being key criteria here ... well, let's just say that furthers my annoyance with the whole NESCAC not participating thing.

I think considering Wilkes '06 better than Rowan '06 is a fine move, and both the '99 and Clock Year Rowan teams were pretty damn good.

Not that thrilled with RPI's '03 run compared with how some other East teams fared in their semifinal matchup, but they did lose to the national champion.

This is 100% a statement of subjectivity.  How can you make a statement like that, when the NESCAC teams NEVER play anyone else?  Shoot, I can watch how nasty and talented Boise St. was for the last several years on ESPN, against their own conference, and say how they could definately match up with the top teams in the country.  Just because they look so good against competition with similar standards, does that mean they can match up with the best teams?  You just don't know until they play, and until last year, Boise St. showed that they in fact WEREN'T good enough to be looked at in that top tier.  

No disrespect to Williams and Trinity, MAYBE they are as good, if not better than the other East teams, but HOW can you gauge it with no actual proof?  In the NFL, Arizona and San Francisco looked INCREDIBLE against each other in week 1 last year.  How did they fair against everyone else?

All I'm trying to say is that this is a pointless argument because everything is based on your opinion of how these teams look against each other.  It is impossible to rank them amongst the 'living' because they choose to seclude themselves, play a short schedule, and never venture into unchartered territories, so for that reason, they should be ignored.

The NEFC could hold the same argument if they didn't venture out.  Curry sure looked good last year at 11-0 in the Regular season, but in typical NEFC fashion, they got smoked in the playoffs by Springfield, 42-14.  Would this happen to the NESCAC???  Maybe...Maybe not.  Guess we'll never know.  But until we know, I'll take Hobart in 2005 over any of them.

Good for you. Calm down, killer.

This IS a subjective post. No one said it wasn't.

How I can make a statement like that is because I saw teams with my own eyes and thought they would fare well against each other.

Your Boise State example stinks, they were hanging with and beating power conference teams long before 2006. Look it up. Your other arguments are kind of silly too. NEFC/NESCAC = not same. You'll take Hobart '05 based on what? If proof is what you need, you can't definitively say they AREN'T as good or better than other D3 teams just like no one can say they ARE. We'll never know and subjectivity is all we have to go on.

I could say they're better than Mount Union and you have no "proof" they're not.

You're also preaching to the choir, as no one dislikes the NESCAC's seclusion more than me. It's documented in ATNs back to who knows when.

Although it's largely of their own school's doing, the players suffer plenty as they are almost never ranked in the top 25 and deprived of the playoff experience while other NESCAC sports play non-conference and compete in the playoffs (Amherst, as you might know, is the reigning men's bball champ). However, just because they take their ball and go home doesn't mean they aren't D3.

You can ignore them if you want to. However, if other people care to take a crack at comparing, I'm telling them what I saw. Trinity and Amherst remind me a lot of teams like Hobart and Occidental.

[K-Mack]

KMac

I don't think you need to tell Fisher how nasty Garcon is...they know from experience.

Oh. Well that ship's sailed. My B.

Although I usually post for the benefit of the general board-reading public, not the players who appeared in the games.

[K-Mack]

reguardless of what the coaches, players, fans, etc think... as long as the NESCAC secludes itself from the rest of D3 football, they shouldn't be part of the discussion.

You can watch all the NESCAC football in the world and come up with how you'd think they'd compete against the rest of the east, but it would just be an assumption. JV games (sometimes RPI JV plays Williams JV) aren't going to help either.

I wish they would compete like normal schools. I think that a top NESCAC team could compete in a 1st round matchup... but until we get some games being played, we'll never know.

Your boy RedTackle felt last year's Williams was on par with the Liberty League contenders on our Game of the Week broadcast, IIRC.

But yes, lack of evidence is why they usually don't get ranked. Not every voter is convinced by a team running the table against Pool D.

I agree with you 'gro, I wish they would compete. They seem pretty set in their ways though, as discussed in that Nov. '05 ATN on the subject.

I don't have any problem with voters saying 'I don't have enough information on them to justify ranking them.' Massey and other computers do the same thing, group the NESCAC alone, because their systems at some point rely on some set of subjective data (like rank of conference strength) that can't be applied to the NESCAC. Going strictly off mathematical comparisons of scores, there's only that limited number of outcomes withing the closed group and we get no perspective from including them in the larger group.

But let's be serious here.

Nearly every conversation on this board and every voter's ballot is based on some amount of subjectivity.

The only absolutes are the final scores, and even those aren't infallible. If A > B and B > C, A isn't always > C ... do we have to trot out some UWW/UMHB/Wesley-type score triangles. It happens several times a year, the three-way tie everyone beat everyone scenario.

We actually can't even guarantee that if A > B that it A will still be > B in a second meeting.

There's so much subjectivity involved in all of this. Home-field advantage. Weather. Playing surface. Injuries. At what point in the season the teams played. Strength of schedule. Etcetera.

Please stop acting like subjectivity with regard to the NESCAC is somehow out of place here.

As said, I'm fine with how the NESCAC is treated; it's their own fault, and if they cared about changing, they would.

But no Division III top 25 that refuses to acknowledge the NESCAC is a true representation of what's believed to be the 25 strongest teams. And neither is a top 10 Eastern Region teams of the D3football.com era.

If the people participating on this thread want to exclude them just to save us all the hassle of having arguments where there's not enough data to compare them, I completely understand, however.

[K-Mack]

My thoughts exactly....well stated by LD.

Your arguments are silly then too.

I am not saying they are NOT on par.  They might be.  And i'm not saying they aren't impressive to watch live, against 'Pool D'(I like that).  I'm just saying that there is no way to tell where, in the grand scheme of things, they fall, so the arguments made on both ends can't be justified.

Sounds like we understand each other here.

I think that a top NESCAC team could compete in a 1st round matchup... but until we get some games being played, we'll never know.

Oddly enough, this is exactly what a poll is -- what people think.

You don't say?!?

yeah yeah yeah but they have some kind of basis even 3 or 4 times removed that boils down to on the field play.  The old A beat B who beat C who beat A stuff.

Oh sweet, Gro. I hadn't even read that when I made my attempt at footbalgebra. You're going to love it.