East Region Fan Poll

[SJFF82]

_{The 2008 Trophy for going 49-12 in the 5 seasons leading up to 2008}

It looks like that jack-ass just got done kicking Ithaca's ass off the trophy base

[Knightstalker]

Sep. 6  1:30 PM  at Mount Union    L, 33-3    
Sep. 13  6:00 PM  Buffalo State •  W, 20-7    
Sep. 20  7:00 PM  at Rochester •  W, 24-17      
Sep. 27  1:00 PM  Ithaca * •         W, 37-6    
Oct. 4  1:00 PM  Hartwick * •         L, 31-28    
Oct. 11  12:00 PM  Salisbury          L, 58-52 Final - 4OT    
Oct. 18  1:30 PM  at Norwich * •   W, 45-6    
Oct. 25  1:00 PM  Springfield * •   W, 38-35    
Nov. 1  1:30 PM  at Utica * •      
Nov. 15  1:00 PM  at Alfred * •  

I have Fisher at 7 right now in the region, they have not impressed me as much as they did the last two years.  The losses to Hartwick and Salisbury at home have hurt them also the recent struggle against a Springfield team that has not played well in conference this season has put some questions in my mind.  Right now I consider Cortland and RPI as a clear but interchangable 1 and 2 and then the rest are all about even.

[Jonny Utah]

nevermind...I checked for you  49-12 over 5 full seasons...trips to at least second round of national play-offs 3 out of 5 seasons and 1 ECAC bowl win.  Only non play-off win season was loss to RPI in ECAC after AU whacked us in season finale at Growney (for you AU posters  )

I  know nobody likes when I boast about SJF , because I am supposed to be neutral....oops, i did it again as Brittney Spears would say

That has to do with the '08 Fisher team, how??

It doesnt, nor did I state or imply that it does.  You continue to incorrectly state that they "had 2 good seaons" but you are not going to give them cred for it this year.  I agree, you should not, however I was simply correcting the statement that they had "2 good seasons"  that's all.

Dont put incorrect words in my mouth, so that you can turn around and correct me.

U89 said "great seasons" not "good" seasons.  And one could say that SJF really only had "one" great season, in 2006.

Speaking of putting words in ones mouth!

[SJFF82]

Sep. 6  1:30 PM  at Mount Union    L, 33-3    
Sep. 13  6:00 PM  Buffalo State •  W, 20-7    
Sep. 20  7:00 PM  at Rochester •  W, 24-17      
Sep. 27  1:00 PM  Ithaca * •         W, 37-6    
Oct. 4  1:00 PM  Hartwick * •         L, 31-28    
Oct. 11  12:00 PM  Salisbury          L, 58-52 Final - 4OT    
Oct. 18  1:30 PM  at Norwich * •   W, 45-6    
Oct. 25  1:00 PM  Springfield * •   W, 38-35    
Nov. 1  1:30 PM  at Utica * •      
Nov. 15  1:00 PM  at Alfred * •  

I have Fisher at 7 right now in the region, they have not impressed me as much as they did the last two years.  The losses to Hartwick and Salisbury at home have hurt them also the recent struggle against a Springfield team that has not played well in conference this season has put some questions in my mind.  Right now I consider Cortland and RPI as a clear but interchangable 1 and 2 and then the rest are all about even.

I agree...SJF is not impressive this year....posted it more than once at beginning of year.  Consider this though:  Last year they went 9-1 coming off of trip to semi's having played MUC tough, so I think that nobody studied their actual games too much and everyone blew-off the loss to 'Wick.  In other words, they got the benefit of the doubt considering they were 9-1.  Yet, they had the same sort of results last year, in squeaking by UR, losing to Wick, crushing IC and taking care of business ag. everyone else.  The difference of course is adding MUC automatic loss and the highly ranked Salisbury squad to the schedule. Now a team with 3 losses suddenly doesnt get the benefit of the doubt that a 9-1 team gets, even though it might be the same team.  Right or wrong is each's opinion, its just how I see it.

They certainly didnt turn the ball over and committ so many penalties last year though...

[AUKaz00]

...they had the same sort of results last year, in squeaking by UR, losing to Wick, crushing IC and taking care of business ag. everyone else.  The difference of course is adding MUC automatic loss and the highly ranked Salisbury squad to the schedule. Now a team with 3 losses suddenly doesnt get the benefit of the doubt that a 9-1 team gets, even though it might be the same team.  Right or wrong is each's opinion, its just how I see it.

They certainly didnt turn the ball over and committ so many penalties last year though...

I don't see the difference in the MUC or Salisbury losses, but in the manner of victory over the same teams on the Fisher schedule from 2007 to 2008.  In '07 Fisher beat Buff State at Buff State by 22, this year at home by 13 and won at Springfield last year by 21, this year at home by 3.  Plus, one could argue that losing to Wick at home by 3 was worth than last year.  I know that many an IC and Fisher fan attributed a portion of their losses to Wick in '07 to "playing in the cage" so if that was indeed a factor losing by the same marging at home would be worse.

[union89]

I give Fisher credit for their big win vs. Ithaca.

How do SJF's performances vs. MUC, Salisbury, Hartwick and Springfield warrant my vote??  I don't see it...

lets see they've given MUC their best game to date... they went 4 overtimes with the #15 team in the country, they played within 3 of the defending conference champions and they came from behind a springfield team that at times can be dangerous...

The MUC argument is rediculous....Fisher lost by 30 and was outgained 2 to 1.  I don't slam them for that loss, but on the other hand I don't give them any credit for getting smoked like any other Eastern team would have.  Losing to Salisbury when Salisbury had a bunch of suspensions does not hold up well either.  As for Springfield, my Union team beat them handily this year....does that mean that Union should be ranked above Fisher also?

Fisher had 2 great years and I think they will return to similar status.  I am not voting for them this year due to their reputation over the last 2.  SJF is simply not that good this year IMO.

silly rabbit...I told you already that you are confused....check SJF's record since 2003, including how many consecutive trips to the play-offs.

Also go back and reread Supes post a few back re: actual game results for this year, and as much as everyone wants to continue to pay lip service to SJF having played MUC, they (especially you) also immediately use their modest 30 pt loss against them...even though you say you are not.

Dood, I'm not going to keep going back and forth with you on this....I have never had an exchange with you previously, but your reputation on this site is that of a guy who sees everything SJF's way...good for you, I just don't see it that way.

convenient, but not true...I have on numerous occassions been objectively critical of Fisher and have laid out bluntly when and where they are flawed and what their 'prognosis' is.  If you are going to state things like that to make me the scapegoat for all passionate fans of their teams...then back it up with some of my posts, otherwise dont make such generalizations.  You are confusing my fan support for "always seeing it SJF's way"  BTW, is that wrong, if it is true?

That's why I said 'good for you'......let's say Utica had SJF's '08 resume of wins and losses.  Would you be asking why UC is only ranked 7th on the fan pool??  You seem to expect people to 'respect' this years Fisher team more because of what they have done the last 6 years....you continue to bring up this timeframe....

[pg04]

I have Fisher at #5, which is probably too high, but with the way the teams have been losing and the way my poll changes from week to week, they maneuvered their way back up to that spot. 

[union89]

I have Fisher at #5, which is probably too high, but with the way the teams have been losing and the way my poll changes from week to week, they maneuvered their way back up to that spot. 

Even if you throw out the MUC loss...outside of the Ithaca win, what performances have impressed you from a 5-2 Fisher this year?

[pg04]

I have Fisher at #5, which is probably too high, but with the way the teams have been losing and the way my poll changes from week to week, they maneuvered their way back up to that spot. 

Even if you throw out the MUC loss...outside of the Ithaca win, what performances have impressed you from a 5-2 Fisher this year?

Well if we want to use this argument than I could say the same thing about RPI... At least St. John Fisher has that Ithaca win. 

[union89]

I have Fisher at #5, which is probably too high, but with the way the teams have been losing and the way my poll changes from week to week, they maneuvered their way back up to that spot. 

Even if you throw out the MUC loss...outside of the Ithaca win, what performances have impressed you from a 5-2 Fisher this year?

Well if we want to use this argument than I could say the same thing about RPI... At least St. John Fisher has that Ithaca win. 

Good point, but what about the Salisbury and Hartwick losses.  The Salisbury loss was to an extremely depleted squad and the Hartwick game in '07 was looked at as a fluke and STF had that game circled in '08.  Even in win's vs. Rochester and Springfield, Fisher struggled mightily. 

[pg04]

I have Fisher at #5, which is probably too high, but with the way the teams have been losing and the way my poll changes from week to week, they maneuvered their way back up to that spot. 

Even if you throw out the MUC loss...outside of the Ithaca win, what performances have impressed you from a 5-2 Fisher this year?

Well if we want to use this argument than I could say the same thing about RPI... At least St. John Fisher has that Ithaca win. 

Good point, but what about the Salisbury and Hartwick losses.  The Salisbury loss was to an extremely depleted squad and the Hartwick game in '07 was looked at as a fluke and STF had that game circled in '08.  Even in win's vs. Rochester and Springfield, Fisher struggled mightily. 

I agree.  Even in my original statement I feel like they could be too high, but then again, I do believe they are better than the teams that are below them like Montclair, Hobart, WPI, etc..

[union89]

I have Fisher at #5, which is probably too high, but with the way the teams have been losing and the way my poll changes from week to week, they maneuvered their way back up to that spot. 

Even if you throw out the MUC loss...outside of the Ithaca win, what performances have impressed you from a 5-2 Fisher this year?

Well if we want to use this argument than I could say the same thing about RPI... At least St. John Fisher has that Ithaca win. 

Good point, but what about the Salisbury and Hartwick losses.  The Salisbury loss was to an extremely depleted squad and the Hartwick game in '07 was looked at as a fluke and STF had that game circled in '08.  Even in win's vs. Rochester and Springfield, Fisher struggled mightily. 

I agree.  Even in my original statement I feel like they could be too high, but then again, I do believe they are better than the teams that are below them like Montclair, Hobart, WPI, etc..

I appreciate your feedback, but in doing that aren't you ranking them based on reputation? 

I'm honestly not busting your chops...I'm interested in others outlooks which I can't get my mind around.  I can't see Fisher being at #7, yet the majority of people seem to be dead against me on this 1.

[pg04]

I have Fisher at #5, which is probably too high, but with the way the teams have been losing and the way my poll changes from week to week, they maneuvered their way back up to that spot. 

Even if you throw out the MUC loss...outside of the Ithaca win, what performances have impressed you from a 5-2 Fisher this year?

Well if we want to use this argument than I could say the same thing about RPI... At least St. John Fisher has that Ithaca win. 

Good point, but what about the Salisbury and Hartwick losses.  The Salisbury loss was to an extremely depleted squad and the Hartwick game in '07 was looked at as a fluke and STF had that game circled in '08.  Even in win's vs. Rochester and Springfield, Fisher struggled mightily. 

I agree.  Even in my original statement I feel like they could be too high, but then again, I do believe they are better than the teams that are below them like Montclair, Hobart, WPI, etc..

I appreciate your feedback, but in doing that aren't you ranking them based on reputation? 

I'm honestly not busting your chops...I'm interested in others outlooks which I can't get my mind around.  I can't see Fisher being at #7, yet the majority of people seem to be dead against me on this 1.

I actually see both sides of the argument.  That's why I have such a hard time ranking them.

[union89]

I have Fisher at #5, which is probably too high, but with the way the teams have been losing and the way my poll changes from week to week, they maneuvered their way back up to that spot. 

Even if you throw out the MUC loss...outside of the Ithaca win, what performances have impressed you from a 5-2 Fisher this year?

Well if we want to use this argument than I could say the same thing about RPI... At least St. John Fisher has that Ithaca win. 

Good point, but what about the Salisbury and Hartwick losses.  The Salisbury loss was to an extremely depleted squad and the Hartwick game in '07 was looked at as a fluke and STF had that game circled in '08.  Even in win's vs. Rochester and Springfield, Fisher struggled mightily. 

I agree.  Even in my original statement I feel like they could be too high, but then again, I do believe they are better than the teams that are below them like Montclair, Hobart, WPI, etc..

I appreciate your feedback, but in doing that aren't you ranking them based on reputation? 

I'm honestly not busting your chops...I'm interested in others outlooks which I can't get my mind around.  I can't see Fisher being at #7, yet the majority of people seem to be dead against me on this 1.

I actually see both sides of the argument.  That's why I have such a hard time ranking them.

Word....as I wrote to you when I submitted my poll, #'s 8, 9 & 10 are a crap-shoot.

[SJFF82]

I give Fisher credit for their big win vs. Ithaca.

How do SJF's performances vs. MUC, Salisbury, Hartwick and Springfield warrant my vote??  I don't see it...

lets see they've given MUC their best game to date... they went 4 overtimes with the #15 team in the country, they played within 3 of the defending conference champions and they came from behind a springfield team that at times can be dangerous...

The MUC argument is rediculous....Fisher lost by 30 and was outgained 2 to 1.  I don't slam them for that loss, but on the other hand I don't give them any credit for getting smoked like any other Eastern team would have.  Losing to Salisbury when Salisbury had a bunch of suspensions does not hold up well either.  As for Springfield, my Union team beat them handily this year....does that mean that Union should be ranked above Fisher also?

Fisher had 2 great years and I think they will return to similar status.  I am not voting for them this year due to their reputation over the last 2.  SJF is simply not that good this year IMO.

silly rabbit...I told you already that you are confused....check SJF's record since 2003, including how many consecutive trips to the play-offs.

Also go back and reread Supes post a few back re: actual game results for this year, and as much as everyone wants to continue to pay lip service to SJF having played MUC, they (especially you) also immediately use their modest 30 pt loss against them...even though you say you are not.

Dood, I'm not going to keep going back and forth with you on this....I have never had an exchange with you previously, but your reputation on this site is that of a guy who sees everything SJF's way...good for you, I just don't see it that way.

convenient, but not true...I have on numerous occassions been objectively critical of Fisher and have laid out bluntly when and where they are flawed and what their 'prognosis' is.  If you are going to state things like that to make me the scapegoat for all passionate fans of their teams...then back it up with some of my posts, otherwise dont make such generalizations.  You are confusing my fan support for "always seeing it SJF's way"  BTW, is that wrong, if it is true?

That's why I said 'good for you'......let's say Utica had SJF's '08 resume of wins and losses.  Would you be asking why UC is only ranked 7th on the fan pool??  You seem to expect people to 'respect' this years Fisher team more because of what they have done the last 6 years....you continue to bring up this timeframe....

Why do you keep saying this...that I have a problem with Fisher's ranking???  I have never said that, and I even posted that I affirmatively agreed with their ranking after last week's poll came out!!!  Where are you getting that from?  Perhaps it is your misplaced perception of my "reputation" of being a passionate SJF fan.  And I have never posted anything like SJF should get respect for their 6 year run.  Every single post of mine on this topic has been strictly limited to breaking down their 08 wins and losses and the respective opponents....that is a fact.  You keep bringing up that YOU are not giving them cred for last year or 06....AND I AGREE....YOU SHOULD NOT, nor should anyone....is that clear enough now??

And that 'point' about UC/SJF is convoluted at best.  If UC '08 had SJF's 08 record, AND the same players as SJF as opposed to the players they actually have, then yes, I would expect them to be considered on par with Fisher.  But not every 5-3 team is the same....is it?  Some 5-3 teams have talent (SJF) and some (Utica in your example)...not so much talent....