East Region Fan Poll

[lewdogg11]

E8 Grads hard at work

[dlippiel]

E8 Grads hard at work

Keep your heads up E8ers, it is still very admirable work to use your hands for a living !

[Trin9-0]

Trin8-0, Its my understanding that although the 'contradiction to acadamic focus' may be an issue to some presidents, the tradition of nescac football is the main reason why they don't go to the playoffs. 

Both of the explanations are terrible excuses. However, the idea that the "tradition of NESCAC football" is what's perpetuating their exclusion is even more of a joke. The NESCAC-only football schedule only dates back to the early 1990s. 

The only reasons NESCAC presidents care about the football team is because former football players are historically among their most philanthropic alumni. Are they scared that allowing their football teams to play non-conference games and or play in the NCAA playoffs will result in fewer or smaller donations?

My guess is that it would have the opposite effect. I work in Development at Trinity and have seen first-hand how donations increased when the Trinity baseball team won the DIII National Championship.

(And before you all go crazy I'm not insinuating that's the football team would have the same level of success in the DIII playoffs).

[Knightstalker]

Trin8-0, Its my understanding that although the 'contradiction to acadamic focus' may be an issue to some presidents, the tradition of nescac football is the main reason why they don't go to the playoffs. 

Both of the explanations are terrible excuses. However, the idea that the "tradition of NESCAC football" is what's perpetuating their exclusion is even more of a joke. The NESCAC-only football schedule only dates back to the early 1990s. 

The only reasons NESCAC presidents care about the football team is because former football players are historically among their most philanthropic alumni. Are they scared that allowing their football teams to play non-conference games and or play in the NCAA playoffs will result in fewer or smaller donations?

My guess is that it would have the opposite effect. I work in Development at Trinity and have seen first-hand how donations increased when the Trinity baseball team won the DIII National Championship.

(And before you all go crazy I'm not insinuating that's the football team would have the same level of success in the DIII playoffs).

What you are saying about donations is most likely true of any school in the country, a little national recognition goes a long way.

[Jonny Utah]

Trin8-0, Its my understanding that although the 'contradiction to acadamic focus' may be an issue to some presidents, the tradition of nescac football is the main reason why they don't go to the playoffs. 

Both of the explanations are terrible excuses. However, the idea that the "tradition of NESCAC football" is what's perpetuating their exclusion is even more of a joke. The NESCAC-only football schedule only dates back to the early 1990s. 

The only reasons NESCAC presidents care about the football team is because former football players are historically among their most philanthropic alumni. Are they scared that allowing their football teams to play non-conference games and or play in the NCAA playoffs will result in fewer or smaller donations?

My guess is that it would have the opposite effect. I work in Development at Trinity and have seen first-hand how donations increased when the Trinity baseball team won the DIII National Championship.

(And before you all go crazy I'm not insinuating that's the football team would have the same level of success in the DIII playoffs).

I think the opposite would be true in terms of the donations.  I have several friends that coach in the nescac and they all pretty much feel the same way, allowing nescac teams into the football playoffs will lead to programs that are larger than they (the presidents) want them to be with unecessary pressure from alumni to be the best in the country.  The nescac presidents feel that this type of system might get out of control.

I have a friend that coached at Harvard and he told me that the alumni pressure to win there is bigger than you could ever imagine.  He said that every year the coaching staff has to sit down with alumni and show them film and do a Q&A about the last season.  The alumni sit there and ask questions on why they didn't do this or that.  I can only imagine what is happening at Yale right now (they have lost to Harvard 7 of the last 8 times and the coach 'retired' last year).  Ok Im getting off tangent here but here is a clip from an article about the Yale coaching change:

Rumors about Siedlecki's possible departure began to circulate among members of the football team on Tuesday, three days after Yale lost to archrival Harvard in The Game for the seventh time in eight meetings. The defeat dropped Siedlecki's overall record against the Crimson to 4-8.

Since then, students and alumni directed a torrent of criticism at Siedlecki, with some suggesting he should be fired. It was not just that Harvard has Siedlecki's number, many of them said; rather, it was the way in which the Crimson dominated the Elis the last two seasons that suggested Yale should go in another direction. In the teams' last two meetings combined, Harvard has outscored Yale 47-6 and the Bulldogs have been held to under 200 yards of total offense.

From http://www.uwire.com/Article.aspx?id=3585414

Siedlecki was a Union grad actually interesting enough.  But here is a coach that really turned the Yale program around and had an Ivy league title in 2006 in a league where parity is almost ruled into the system with the admissions policy the schools share.

But my point was that although alumni support at nescac schools aren't nearly as great as Ivy league schools, both leagues don't make the playoffs but the pressure to win is still huge to win and beat other rival schools.

And although the leagues policy on schedules might only be 20 years old, the tradition (of no playoffs) of many of the core schools is over a hundred years old.

[Trin9-0]

There's realistically only 3 maybe 4 NESCAC teams vying for the league title every year.  Also, more often than not the NESCAC winner would lose in the first round and almost certainly wouldn't win a second game in the DIII football playoff. 

Allowing the NESCAC football teams to compete against other NESCAC schools won't increase the size or scope of the football program. They already have a 75 man roster limit and limit the number of slotted athletes per team.

Also, in regards to alumni giving; a Williams alum isn't going to deter his giving unless the Ephs start losing to Amherst every year. 

These century old rivalries are one of the things that makes NESCAC football so great. I don't think non-conference games and/or playoff participation would take away from these rivalries.  However, in regards to donations to the schools, increasing the profile of an athletic team may broaden the number of alumni who make a donations.

[Pat Coleman]

I don't know about that -- I think the NESCAC winner would go better than .500 in the first round in the East bracket. Unless that winner is 6-2 and sent to Mount Union.

[lewdogg11]

I don't know about that -- I think the NESCAC winner would go better than .500 in the first round in the East bracket. Unless that winner is 6-2 and sent to Mount Union.

Prove it...

[Reno Hightower]

I don't know about that -- I think the NESCAC winner would go better than .500 in the first round in the East bracket. Unless that winner is 6-2 and sent to Mount Union.

The Guru is always the biggest voice of reason and intelligence on these boards.

This one is way off though.

[Pat Coleman]

I don't know about that -- I think the NESCAC winner would go better than .500 in the first round in the East bracket. Unless that winner is 6-2 and sent to Mount Union.

Prove it...

Can't, clearly. Nor can anyone prove otherwise. But an unbeaten NESCAC team getting one of the top three seeds can't possibly win one playoff game more often than it loses in the first round?

[theoriginalupstate]

I don't know about that -- I think the NESCAC winner would go better than .500 in the first round in the East bracket. Unless that winner is 6-2 and sent to Mount Union.

Prove it...

Can't, clearly. Nor can anyone prove otherwise. But an unbeaten NESCAC team getting one of the top three seeds can't possibly win one playoff game more often than it loses in the first round?

I'll take the top 2 teams out of the E8 and LL any day over the NESCAC champ...

[Pat Coleman]

::shrug:: When Keith and I each observed high-level NESCAC teams in action in the past couple of years, we thought differently. Of course, we're not biased for or against anyone in the region, so that might be why you disagree.

I thought the NESCAC champ, from watching them play, could indeed hang with the LL's best and probably merited a ranking that could top out in the high teens. Keith thought even more highly of the NESCAC.

[labart96]

TGP will acknowledge that if Curry (aka the Purple Drank) can win (on the road no less) over IC, then in general you should give the NESCAC champ a 50-50 chance of getting out of the 1st round.

Can't speak for other schools, but a lot of the same kids who apply to Trinity are also applying to Hobart and Bart has fared ok in the 1st round lately.

[lewdogg11]

Hey the 49ers looked great against Detroit last year too ya know.  I thought they had Super Bowl potential.

[JT]

E8 Grads hard at work

Keep your heads up E8ers, it is still very admirable work to use your hands for a living !

Just don't go blind.