East Region Fan Poll

[Jonny Utah]

East Region Fan Poll - Week 5 (10/5/09)

#	School (1st votes)	Record	Pts	Prev.	This Week
1	Alfred  ( 9 )	4-0	97	1	vs. Hartwick
2	Delaware Valley	3-1	75	6	vs. FDU-Florham
3	Albright  ( 1 )	4-0	71	9	at Lycoming
4	Ithaca	4-1	62	4	vs. St. John Fisher
5	Kean	3-1	53	NR	vs. Buffalo State
6	Cortland State	3-1	52	5	at Montclair State
7	Rowan	3-1	49	7	vs. Western Connecticut
8	Union	3-1	31	NR	vs. Hobart
9	Wilkes	3-1	25	2	vs. Lebanon Valley
10	RPI	3-1	15	3	Open Date

 

Others Receiving votes:      
Springfield   9
Hartwick   4
Hobart   3
TCNJ   2
St. John Fisher   2



Dropping out: #8 TCNJ, #10 Lebanon Valley


Voting Breakdown
Alfred (1,1,1,1,1,4,1,1,1,1,)
Delaware Valley (3,2,3,4,4,5,3,5,3,3,)
Albright (2,8,2,2,5,1,2,2,6,9,)
Ithaca (8,5,6,7,3,2,7,4,2,4,)
Kean (9,7,4,6,6,3,4,3,4,NR,)
Cortland State (5,3,8,8,7,6,5,7,7,2,)
Rowan (4,4,NR,3,2,7,6,NR,8,5,)
Union (7,10,5,5,NR,8,NR,6,5,NR,)
Wilkes (6,9,NR,9,8,10,8,8,9,7,)
RPI (10,6,10,10,10,NR,NR,NR,10,6,)
Springfield (NR,NR,7,NR,9,9,10,NR,NR,NR,)
Hartwick (NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,9,10,NR,10,)
Hobart (NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,8,)
TCNJ (NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,9,NR,NR,)
St. John Fisher (NR,NR,9,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,)

Key Regional Games This Week:

#4 Ithaca vs. St. John Fisher
#6 Cortland State @ Montclair State
#1 Alfred vs. Hartwick
#3 Albright @ Lycoming

How can Alfred be #1 with this  SOS sof afr this year ...

Sep. 5  12:00 PM  at Mass-Dartmouth •  W, 35-6     0-5
Sep. 12  1:00 PM  at FDU-Florham •  W, 33-28         1-3
Sep. 19  1:00 PM  St. Lawrence •  W, 38-16             2-3
Sep. 26  1:00 PM  Springfield * •  W, 49-28              3-1

weak  ?

I have had Alfred #1 from week 1, simply because they had the most coming back from a good team in the E8 last year.  So I ranked them ahead of Ithaca, who isn't that much worse than Union. 

I also rank the E8 and LL higher than the NJAC and MAC slightly going into the season.

[PBR...]

East Region Fan Poll - Week 5 (10/5/09)

#	School (1st votes)	Record	Pts	Prev.	This Week
1	Alfred  ( 9 )	4-0	97	1	vs. Hartwick
2	Delaware Valley	3-1	75	6	vs. FDU-Florham
3	Albright  ( 1 )	4-0	71	9	at Lycoming
4	Ithaca	4-1	62	4	vs. St. John Fisher
5	Kean	3-1	53	NR	vs. Buffalo State
6	Cortland State	3-1	52	5	at Montclair State
7	Rowan	3-1	49	7	vs. Western Connecticut
8	Union	3-1	31	NR	vs. Hobart
9	Wilkes	3-1	25	2	vs. Lebanon Valley
10	RPI	3-1	15	3	Open Date

 

Others Receiving votes:      
Springfield   9
Hartwick   4
Hobart   3
TCNJ   2
St. John Fisher   2



Dropping out: #8 TCNJ, #10 Lebanon Valley


Voting Breakdown
Alfred (1,1,1,1,1,4,1,1,1,1,)
Delaware Valley (3,2,3,4,4,5,3,5,3,3,)
Albright (2,8,2,2,5,1,2,2,6,9,)
Ithaca (8,5,6,7,3,2,7,4,2,4,)
Kean (9,7,4,6,6,3,4,3,4,NR,)
Cortland State (5,3,8,8,7,6,5,7,7,2,)
Rowan (4,4,NR,3,2,7,6,NR,8,5,)
Union (7,10,5,5,NR,8,NR,6,5,NR,)
Wilkes (6,9,NR,9,8,10,8,8,9,7,)
RPI (10,6,10,10,10,NR,NR,NR,10,6,)
Springfield (NR,NR,7,NR,9,9,10,NR,NR,NR,)
Hartwick (NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,9,10,NR,10,)
Hobart (NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,8,)
TCNJ (NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,9,NR,NR,)
St. John Fisher (NR,NR,9,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,)

Key Regional Games This Week:

#4 Ithaca vs. St. John Fisher
#6 Cortland State @ Montclair State
#1 Alfred vs. Hartwick
#3 Albright @ Lycoming

How can Alfred be #1 with this  SOS sof afr this year ...

Sep. 5  12:00 PM  at Mass-Dartmouth •  W, 35-6     0-5
Sep. 12  1:00 PM  at FDU-Florham •  W, 33-28         1-3
Sep. 19  1:00 PM  St. Lawrence •  W, 38-16             2-3
Sep. 26  1:00 PM  Springfield * •  W, 49-28              3-1

weak  ?

Name a team outside of Albright that should be number 1?

DVC...should be #1 ...

[dlippiel]

I still have Cortland above Kean.  Yes Kean beat Cortland but that was the first week w/out Pitcher.  Cortland has also been a proven contender and is still pretty strong.  Kean has started out strong before and proven to be a tease.  Basically I gave Cortland the benefit of doubt so far.

You gave Cortland the benefit of what doubt, relative to 3-1 Kean?  Kean beat Cortland head-to-head.  There is no doubting that.  Kean's only loss is to 3-1 Del Val, whose only loss is to unbeaten Wesley.  

I don't understand poll voter psychology.

Thought:

I don't understand poll voter psychology.

Answer:

Yes Kean beat Cortland but that was the first week w/out Pitcher.

dlip does, and this was his reasoning as well  . KS is right on.

[AUPepBand]

Pep wants to know why St. Lawrence isn't getting any votes in this poll. After all, the Saints, according to this "Transitive Property Weekly Poll," are better than Tim Tebow and the Florida Gators. Granted, it's from 2008, but Pep thinks this proves that most any arguments about polls can be supported with "facts." Here's the proof:

http://www.myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com/default.asp?winner=St+Lawrence&loser=Florida&year=2008&method=2

[dlippiel]

I have had Alfred #1 from week 1, simply because they had the most coming back from a good team in the E8 last year.  So I ranked them ahead of Ithaca, who isn't that much worse than Union. 

I also rank the E8 and LL higher than the NJAC and MAC slightly going into the season.

dlip also has Alfred #1, not from the beginning, but for awhile now. Schedule can't be everything especially when a team has skill players that performed well against solid competition the previous year. Alfred sports a very good Qb surrounded by some talented players and a decent defense. So far in 09 it is quite difficult to have a clear #1, hence dlip clearly understands the debate about a couple others (1 or 2) possibly being number 1 as well. Remember it is still early in 09 and there is a lot more football to come that will tell us a lot about the teams many of us feel are the front runners as of now. dlip feels though to say that Alfred is not one of the top choices for the #1 spot right now is not valid when comparing them (not just their 09 schedule thus far) to other top possibilities. Kean still needs to show dlip more, Albright and Del Val are right there (remember Del Vals only L isto a ****in nasty Wesley team #5 nationally) we haven't seen Rowans best yet, Union needs to win on Saturday to show dlip Mulhenburg was a total fluke loss. There is just so much out there to consider. Overall dlip feels the poll is coming out O.K.

[JQV]

Pep wants to know why St. Lawrence isn't getting any votes in this poll. After all, the Saints, according to this "Transitive Property Weekly Poll," are better than Tim Tebow and the Florida Gators. Granted, it's from 2008, but Pep thinks this proves that most any arguments about polls can be supported with "facts." Here's the proof:

http://www.myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com/default.asp?winner=St+Lawrence&loser=Florida&year=2008&method=2

How can Saints be greater than Saint Tim when Saint Tim is also a Saint?  Wouldn't he be on both teams?  Where does Saint Bobby fit in? 

Is this like the Ditka vs. God debate the superfans used to have on SNL?

Do we take football too seriously in Florida?

[pumkinattack]

dlip also has Alfred #1, not from the beginning, but for awhile now. Schedule can't be everything especially when a team has skill players that performed well against solid competition the previous year. Alfred sports a very good Qb surrounded by some talented players and a decent defense. So far in 09 it is quite difficult to have a clear #1, hence dlip clearly understands the debate about a couple others (1 or 2) possibly being number 1 as well. Remember it is still early in 09 and there is a lot more football to come that will tell us a lot about the teams many of us feel are the front runners as of now. dlip feels though to say that Alfred is not one of the top choices for the #1 spot right now is not valid when comparing them (not just their 09 schedule thus far) to other top possibilities. Kean still needs to show dlip more, Albright and Del Val are right there (remember Del Vals only L isto a ****in nasty Wesley team #5 nationally) we haven't seen Rowans best yet, Union needs to win on Saturday to show dlip Mulhenburg was a total fluke loss. There is just so much out there to consider. Overall dlip feels the poll is coming out O.K.

Ain't happening.  I'm officially throwing down the LLPP gauntlet for this game on the East Region forum Dlip.   

BTW, PG, I'm surprised you didn't include the Hobart-Union game as a key matchup.  Bart's got a vote, though maybe they shouldn't (the SU loss may look worse down the road, but bear in mind Bart knocked out SU's starting QB who's been the difference - last year teams could stop Paveletz), but if they win plus a win against a CMU team that's 4-1 (4-0 not coutning the Hobart matchup) they should be in the top ten and the LL is totally open.  In fact, if you don't have a dog in the hunt this week or at a different time, I would suggest people tune in.  No matter the outcome, the history (both long term and short term including ruining Bart's otherwise undefeated season last year at home) and the meaning of the game I think means this will be a bloodfest.  There was some hitting last year when it wasn't as significant with Union having losses to UofR and WPI, so I'm thinking you'll see some nastiness, which is always intersting.  If Bart loses you'll probably not hear from them again in 2009. 

[pumkinattack]

Oh boy...I had typed that "you took my post too seriously" in my original reply....but removed it...suffice it to say, I shoulda left it in.

What da hell does your post say?  Cmon....I was just bustin balls about Gro's comment....and you go freakin analytical on me.  Here is some k....lighten up.

Fair enough.  I was just defending the LL since they came up with some kind words when I was nearly homicidal (mainly towards our QB) after the SU game.  That's the general problem with this medium, it's not rich enough to know other's intent/meaning behind the words.  I think Gro's last post was right though. 

[redswarm81]

I still have Cortland above Kean.  Yes Kean beat Cortland but that was the first week w/out Pitcher.  Cortland has also been a proven contender and is still pretty strong.  Kean has started out strong before and proven to be a tease.  Basically I gave Cortland the benefit of doubt so far.

You gave Cortland the benefit of what doubt, relative to 3-1 Kean?  Kean beat Cortland head-to-head.  There is no doubting that.  Kean's only loss is to 3-1 Del Val, whose only loss is to unbeaten Wesley.  

I don't understand poll voter psychology.

Thought:

I don't understand poll voter psychology.

Answer:

Yes Kean beat Cortland but that was the first week w/out Pitcher.

dlip does, and this was his reasoning as well  . KS is right on.

Kean didn't really beat Cortland, in other words.  Did Kean really beat Trenton St. TCNJ?

Wouldn't KS's reasoning require the conclusion that RPI didn't really lose to Rochacha either, since that was their week without Hermann?  Did KS keep RPI ranked as high as he ranked them before they didn't really lose to Rochester?

[Doid23]

Kean didn't really beat Cortland, in other words.  Did Kean really beat Trenton St. TCNJ?

Nicely played. Never sure why results on the field get discounted, especially when this isn't a fluke, Kean is a very good team who won by two scores AT Cortland. If Cortland really is better than Kean, there are enough tough games coming up to prove it.

[dlippiel]

Kean didn't really beat Cortland, in other words.  Did Kean really beat Trenton St. TCNJ?

Kean did beat Cortland, but they beat Cortland without their best ****in player. That means something and should be accounted for regarding a teams actual strength vs their strength without their star player. Maybe dlip took it into consideration too much, point taken, but it deserved consideration none the less. And if one feels a team is at the same strength when they are playing without their star player than they are not dipping both ****in oars into the water when trying to paddle up stream. Hence if one were to say Rochester is clearly a better overall team than RPI without Herman, dlip would agree because that was taken care of on the field. Yet, if you came to dlip and said Rochester would have still won even if RPI had Herman, one could disagree, because they haven't beaten RPI when Herman (a 3 time LL rookie of the week) was playing. So dlip feels injuries and missing players must be accounted for, especially when those players are returning to the line-up that same year.

[Knightstalker]

Dlip, ignore RS he likes to start this ****, he thinks everything is cut and dried like a basic engineering problem, he does not give any credit to intangibles.  I sent in my poll, I have my rankings and if he doesn't like it KS really does not give a ****.

[dlippiel]

Dlip, ignore RS he likes to start this ****, he thinks everything is cut and dried like a basic engineering problem, he does not give any credit to intangibles.  I sent in my poll, I have my rankings and if he doesn't like it KS really does not give a ****.

dlip is getting the message here, this is the second person who has given dlip the advice to ignore RS. KS dlip loves the ****in swaring in your post! +k

[Yanks 99]

Kean didn't really beat Cortland, in other words.  Did Kean really beat Trenton St. TCNJ?

Kean did beat Cortland, but they beat Cortland without their best ****in player. That means something and should be accounted for regarding a teams actual strength vs their strength without their star player. Maybe dlip took it into consideration too much, point taken, but it deserved consideration none the less. And if one feels a team is at the same strength when they are playing without their star player than they are not dipping both ****in oars into the water when trying to paddle up stream. Hence if one were to say Rochester is clearly a better overall team than RPI without Herman, dlip would agree because that was taken care of on the field. Yet, if you came to dlip and said Rochester would have still won even if RPI had Herman, one could disagree, because they haven't beaten RPI when Herman (a 3 time LL rookie of the week) was playing. So dlip feels injuries and missing players must be accounted for, especially when those players are returning to the line-up that same year.

Not sure I agree with the arguement that head to head match ups only matters if you beat someone with all of the players.  A win is a win...everyone goes through injuries.  As bad as Wick's defense was last year in the Brockport game...Wick doesn't get a pass simply because Tomaino and the starting ILB and FS were all out by the second series of the first quarter.

If I came on here and argued that it didn't really matter because we put up 68 points...and that the 70 points shouldn't count as we had "guys out", I would get destroyed...and rightfully so.  I believe we would have won the game going away if everyone was healthy and playing all 4 quarters...and that we would have given up far fewer points as we obviously weren't that deep.  But the problem is they weren't in the game...and we gave up 70. Injuries are part of the game...and head to head match ups should count above and beyond everything else.

[labart96]

BTW, PG, I'm surprised you didn't include the Hobart-Union game as a key matchup.  Bart's got a vote, though maybe they shouldn't (the SU loss may look worse down the road, but bear in mind Bart knocked out SU's starting QB who's been the difference - last year teams could stop Paveletz), but if they win plus a win against a CMU team that's 4-1 (4-0 not coutning the Hobart matchup) they should be in the top ten and the LL is totally open.  In fact, if you don't have a dog in the hunt this week or at a different time, I would suggest people tune in.  No matter the outcome, the history (both long term and short term including ruining Bart's otherwise undefeated season last year at home) and the meaning of the game I think means this will be a bloodfest.  There was some hitting last year when it wasn't as significant with Union having losses to UofR and WPI, so I'm thinking you'll see some nastiness, which is always intersting.  If Bart loses you'll probably not hear from them again in 2009. 

Agree.  This is the LL GOTW given this is pretty much an elimination game for Hobart like it was last year for Union.  The U's had Bart's number in recent years (the Dutch are 3-1 vs Bart since 05) and the Statesmen would like nothing better than returning the favor of dinging Union's chances to capture the LL title.