East Region Fan Poll

[PBR...]

Sure they appreciate that crumb of credit you give them....and they appreciate you not discrediting them entirely....

Trust me, that's a lot more than a crumb -- other teams in the first couple weeks that lost dropped on average 8-10 spots (like an established St. John's team).  Was I supposed to move them up on a national basis after the loss?  The first three weeks for me showed a weaker offense than last year, and Wesley helped prove that.  The defense is a surprise to me -- but it takes both sides of the ball to make a team a national powerhouse.

#13 is a powerful ranking in a 200+ team division.  DelVal can easily jump back into the Top 10 with some strong MAC performances this season, but currently, I think SJF is a slightly stronger team that would be able to win in a shootout against Wesley.  So, SJF is one spot higher in my ballot right now than DelVal.

So, if you're going to stand there throwing stones that people like me didn't respect your team enough, at least defend the offense's performance compared to last year for people that don't get DVC on their radar every week.

no frank my problem is that you totally blew them off and made it sound like they don't deserve to be on the same field as wesley, that it was total luck the dvc was in the position they were....i don't expect them to move up in the polls at all my beef was when you totally discredit the team and their performance. personally could care less what team you like (even w/ your bias towards union and the LL) , and whatever team your discounting.

[labart96]

You're still doing a great job Kaz00, don't let those pumpkin heads talk down to you!!!

I wasn't talking down - AUKaz is doing a great job - just pointing out a typo...no big deal.

[AUPepBand]

You're still doing a great job Kaz00, don't let those pumpkin heads talk down to you!!!

I wasn't talking down - AUKaz is doing a great job - just pointing out a typo...no big deal.

Seems like the Pumpkinheads and the Fishermen are a bit testy with one another. Perhaps y'all should take this down to the new Boswell Saterday night and let your boys settle it on the field?

On Saxon Warriors!

[labart96]

You're still doing a great job Kaz00, don't let those pumpkin heads talk down to you!!!

I wasn't talking down - AUKaz is doing a great job - just pointing out a typo...no big deal.

Seems like the Pumpkinheads and the Fishermen are a bit testy with one another. Perhaps y'all should take this down to the new Boswell Saterday night and let your boys settle it on the field?

On Saxon Warriors!

That's the plan.  Can't wait for kickoff and my first home game in 12+ years...I'll be the guy playing in the rock band prior to kickoff at the tailgate...

[theoriginalupstate]

You're still doing a great job Kaz00, don't let those pumpkin heads talk down to you!!!

I wasn't talking down - AUKaz is doing a great job - just pointing out a typo...no big deal.

Ha, my bad TGP I forgot to put /sarcasm...

[labart96]

You're still doing a great job Kaz00, don't let those pumpkin heads talk down to you!!!

I wasn't talking down - AUKaz is doing a great job - just pointing out a typo...no big deal.

Ha, my bad TGP I forgot to put /sarcasm...

np - k+

[Frank Rossi]

Sure they appreciate that crumb of credit you give them....and they appreciate you not discrediting them entirely....

Trust me, that's a lot more than a crumb -- other teams in the first couple weeks that lost dropped on average 8-10 spots (like an established St. John's team).  Was I supposed to move them up on a national basis after the loss?  The first three weeks for me showed a weaker offense than last year, and Wesley helped prove that.  The defense is a surprise to me -- but it takes both sides of the ball to make a team a national powerhouse.

#13 is a powerful ranking in a 200+ team division.  DelVal can easily jump back into the Top 10 with some strong MAC performances this season, but currently, I think SJF is a slightly stronger team that would be able to win in a shootout against Wesley.  So, SJF is one spot higher in my ballot right now than DelVal.

So, if you're going to stand there throwing stones that people like me didn't respect your team enough, at least defend the offense's performance compared to last year for people that don't get DVC on their radar every week.

no frank my problem is that you totally blew them off and made it sound like they don't deserve to be on the same field as wesley, that it was total luck the dvc was in the position they were....i don't expect them to move up in the polls at all my beef was when you totally discredit the team and their performance. personally could care less what team you like (even w/ your bias towards union and the LL) , and whatever team your discounting.

OK, now those be some fighting words at the end of that passage.  Hobart was the first Liberty League team to see the light of day on my ballot this season this week at #25.  Above any Liberty League team, I have SJF, DVC, Montclair, Alfred and Ithaca.  As I've covered the playoffs and the Stagg Bowl over the last few years, I've broadened my view of the quality conferences in the East and the entire nation.  When Ithaca beat Union, I reassessed Union as being the favorite in the LL and stated I thought Hobart was then the favorite.  And I picked SJF to beat Hobart by 10 last night on the show.  You can stick your bias schtick... You know the rest.

You're the one that was complaining in the LLPP that we shouldn't focus on just the LL on "In the HuddLLe" and focus on the MAC above all other conferences -- and if you notice, we've attempted to get two out-of-conference coaches RELEVANT to the LL, with one accepting (and let me state for those who didn't listen to last night's show that Coach Vosburgh was a tremendous guest and a class act).  We will likely try to get Salisbury's coach on before Salisbury plays against Union and/or SJF.  If there were more cross-scheduling between the LL and the MAC, we'd do the same in that instance.

Now, let's remember my words from Saturday evening -- paraphrasing myself, I said that solely basing that game and DVC's standing on a regional/national scale on the final score would not tell the full story of that game because of the turnover and penalty ratios.  I deferred to Gordon.  Gordon took the view that Wesley is definitely the better of the two teams, but he pointed out the bright spots for DVC -- and I respect Gordon's views on such things, having worked with him over the past five years.  My statement was in response to the notion that DVC was undoubtedly the best team in the East following that game.  Yet, you continue to ignore the ultimate question I've been asking you all day and that led to my initial statement on Saturday:  "What is up with DVC's offense this season?  They had five more opportunities with the ball than Wesley did ultimately, if you assume a turnover nullifies a possession.  And this has been a little consistent with the results this season."  Sure, Wesley's defense is great -- but DVC should've been able to surge in the second half the way things turned out.  It was a muted surge that gave the team the lead, but Wesley responded because it wasn't put out of reach.

DVC is an EXCELLENT team.  However, it's a team that lacks a little balance right now, I believe.  Yet, that doesn't take away from my notion that DVC is the #13 team in the nation.  If you want to talk about respect/disrespect, then talk to SJF fans that have seen SJF unable to even crack the Top 25 after the team's finish last year and start this year with much of the same personnel.  And I think DVC needs to remember what happened last year after a bit too much self-back-patting in the rout vs. Susquehanna in the First Round of the playoffs.  I sense that there's a little bit of that going on even after the Wesley loss, and that's a huge mistake if it's happening.  There's still A LOT of football to be played before mid-November.

[Pat Coleman]

PBR -- even if Frank were favoring the LL and Union, which I think he's made it clear he's not, you have to remember that we have 25 voters for a reason. Each voter comes in with a different view on things, so we make sure we represent as many Top 25-worthy conferences as possible on the panel every year.

[PBR...]

Sure they appreciate that crumb of credit you give them....and they appreciate you not discrediting them entirely....

Trust me, that's a lot more than a crumb -- other teams in the first couple weeks that lost dropped on average 8-10 spots (like an established St. John's team).  Was I supposed to move them up on a national basis after the loss?  The first three weeks for me showed a weaker offense than last year, and Wesley helped prove that.  The defense is a surprise to me -- but it takes both sides of the ball to make a team a national powerhouse.

#13 is a powerful ranking in a 200+ team division.  DelVal can easily jump back into the Top 10 with some strong MAC performances this season, but currently, I think SJF is a slightly stronger team that would be able to win in a shootout against Wesley.  So, SJF is one spot higher in my ballot right now than DelVal.

So, if you're going to stand there throwing stones that people like me didn't respect your team enough, at least defend the offense's performance compared to last year for people that don't get DVC on their radar every week.

no frank my problem is that you totally blew them off and made it sound like they don't deserve to be on the same field as wesley, that it was total luck the dvc was in the position they were....i don't expect them to move up in the polls at all my beef was when you totally discredit the team and their performance. personally could care less what team you like (even w/ your bias towards union and the LL) , and whatever team your discounting.

OK, now those be some fighting words at the end of that passage.  Hobart was the first Liberty League team to see the light of day on my ballot this season this week at #25.  Above any Liberty League team, I have SJF, DVC, Montclair, Alfred and Ithaca.  As I've covered the playoffs and the Stagg Bowl over the last few years, I've broadened my view of the quality conferences in the East and the entire nation.  When Ithaca beat Union, I reassessed Union as being the favorite in the LL and stated I thought Hobart was then the favorite.  And I picked SJF to beat Hobart by 10 last night on the show.  You can stick your bias schtick... You know the rest.

You're the one that was complaining in the LLPP that we shouldn't focus on just the LL on "In the HuddLLe" and focus on the MAC above all other conferences -- and if you notice, we've attempted to get two out-of-conference coaches RELEVANT to the LL, with one accepting (and let me state for those who didn't listen to last night's show that Coach Vosburgh was a tremendous guest and a class act).  We will likely try to get Salisbury's coach on before Salisbury plays against Union and/or SJF.  If there were more cross-scheduling between the LL and the MAC, we'd do the same in that instance.

Now, let's remember my words from Saturday evening -- paraphrasing myself, I said that solely basing that game and DVC's standing on a regional/national scale on the final score would not tell the full story of that game because of the turnover and penalty ratios.  I deferred to Gordon.  Gordon took the view that Wesley is definitely the better of the two teams, but he pointed out the bright spots for DVC -- and I respect Gordon's views on such things, having worked with him over the past five years.  My statement was in response to the notion that DVC was undoubtedly the best team in the East following that game.  Yet, you continue to ignore the ultimate question I've been asking you all day and that led to my initial statement on Saturday:  "What is up with DVC's offense this season?  They had five more opportunities with the ball than Wesley did ultimately, if you assume a turnover nullifies a possession.  And this has been a little consistent with the results this season."  Sure, Wesley's defense is great -- but DVC should've been able to surge in the second half the way things turned out.  It was a muted surge that gave the team the lead, but Wesley responded because it wasn't put out of reach.

DVC is an EXCELLENT team.  However, it's a team that lacks a little balance right now, I believe.  Yet, that doesn't take away from my notion that DVC is the #13 team in the nation.  If you want to talk about respect/disrespect, then talk to SJF fans that have seen SJF unable to even crack the Top 25 after the team's finish last year and start this year with much of the same personnel.  And I think DVC needs to remember what happened last year after a bit too much self-back-patting in the rout vs. Susquehanna in the First Round of the playoffs.  I sense that there's a little bit of that going on even after the Wesley loss, and that's a huge mistake if it's happening.  There's still A LOT of football to be played before mid-November.

Oh please...complain?? LOL...made a simple suggestion to include things outside realm to increase your listeners(gee who would want to increase listenership)....you obviously cant take any kind of criticism. Who is patting themselves on the back? Not DVC...In fact if you actually took any time to read the coaches or players quotes and facts (heaven forbid) you would of seen the coach wanted to challenge his players to see where they stood at this point in the season. He stated there are usually 4 teams at the top of d3....since your going to play them anyway to get to salem, why not see where you stand now and make yourself better in the long run. When was the last time Union played 2 top 20 teams to lead off the season? Heaven forbid in your eyes a team get any kind of credit for their effort and preparation.

[PBR...]

PBR -- even if Frank were favoring the LL and Union, which I think he's made it clear he's not, you have to remember that we have 25 voters for a reason. Each voter comes in with a different view on things, so we make sure we represent as many Top 25-worthy conferences as possible on the panel every year.

Pat..totally understand what you are saying and I have no problem w/ where frank or any other pollster has voted dvc. My point is saying they were lucky to be in the game and the field w/ wesley was totally in appropriate. What should dvc do forgive the turnovers and say no thanks we would rather try and march 80 yards each drive? To give no credit to dvc and their defense is a total slap in the face to the players and coaching staff for their effort and preparation. It has nothing to do w/ where the voters have placed dvc in the polls.

[theoriginalupstate]

PBR -- even if Frank were favoring the LL and Union, which I think he's made it clear he's not, you have to remember that we have 25 voters for a reason. Each voter comes in with a different view on things, so we make sure we represent as many Top 25-worthy conferences as possible on the panel every year.

Pat..totally understand what you are saying and I have no problem w/ where frank or any other pollster has voted dvc. My point is saying they were lucky to be in the game and the field w/ wesley was totally in appropriate. What should dvc do forgive the turnovers and say no thanks we would rather try and march 80 yards each drive? To give no credit to dvc and their defense is a total slap in the face to the players and coaching staff for their effort and preparation. It has nothing to do w/ where the voters have placed dvc in the polls.

DVC should have just punted after each turnover to make it fair...

[Frank Rossi]

No doubt that DVC belongs #1 in the ERFP now...

On the road, vs the #3 team in the country and Wesley had to come from behind to beat them...

It was more a case of Wesley beating themselves, though.  Here's my problem with annointing DVC based solely on the score:

Wesley had six turnovers, five in the second half alone.  Wesley also committed 13 penalties for about 200 yards.  Yet, DVC still only put up 17.  Gordon will have a better perspective of this game having announced it.  However, Wesley's sloppiness was a lot more to blame for the nature of the score.

Since you're severely misquoting me, PBR, maybe you should take a look at the original thread that led to this.  No place did I say DVC was "lucky" or "didn't belong on the same field as Wesley."  I said in a game in which Wesley outgained DVC by 180 yards but gave DVC 150 of those back on penalty differential and had a -5 turnover margin, the final score did not tell the whole story.  And I gave my take as to what kept that game as close as it was late.  If that justifies persecution and calls of bias by you, then so be it -- I know how I feel about DVC's performance this season so far, it matches other pollsters' feelings and as a general fan of the East Region, I hope DVC or some other team can get some momentum to bring the Region back into the national discussion.  Yet, I vote with my head, not with my heart.

[PBR...]

No doubt that DVC belongs #1 in the ERFP now...

On the road, vs the #3 team in the country and Wesley had to come from behind to beat them...

It was more a case of Wesley beating themselves, though.  Here's my problem with annointing DVC based solely on the score:

Wesley had six turnovers, five in the second half alone.  Wesley also committed 13 penalties for about 200 yards.  Yet, DVC still only put up 17.  Gordon will have a better perspective of this game having announced it.  However, Wesley's sloppiness was a lot more to blame for the nature of the score.

Since you're severely misquoting me, PBR, maybe you should take a look at the original thread that led to this.  No place did I say DVC was "lucky" or "didn't belong on the same field as Wesley."  I said in a game in which Wesley outgained DVC by 180 yards but gave DVC 150 of those back on penalty differential and had a -5 turnover margin, the final score did not tell the whole story.  And I gave my take as to what kept that game as close as it was late.  If that justifies persecution and calls of bias by you, then so be it -- I know how I feel about DVC's performance this season so far, it matches other pollsters' feelings and as a general fan of the East Region, I hope DVC or some other team can get some momentum to bring the Region back into the national discussion.  Yet, I vote with my head, not with my heart.

your right should of called it what it was ....a cheap shot. As many people have emailed me and asked what your beef was w/ either dvc or the mac. People do question you and your words frank and since your a pollster want to know if there is a bias towards union and the LL, thus the validity of this site and its polls. That has always been my point. Has nothing to do w/ where you or any pollster ranks dvc. You may have not meant it that way, but there are people out there who are thinking it.

[PBR...]

PBR -- even if Frank were favoring the LL and Union, which I think he's made it clear he's not, you have to remember that we have 25 voters for a reason. Each voter comes in with a different view on things, so we make sure we represent as many Top 25-worthy conferences as possible on the panel every year.

Pat..totally understand what you are saying and I have no problem w/ where frank or any other pollster has voted dvc. My point is saying they were lucky to be in the game and the field w/ wesley was totally in appropriate. What should dvc do forgive the turnovers and say no thanks we would rather try and march 80 yards each drive? To give no credit to dvc and their defense is a total slap in the face to the players and coaching staff for their effort and preparation. It has nothing to do w/ where the voters have placed dvc in the polls.

DVC should have just punted after each turnover to make it fair...

LOL...+k

[wesleydad]

somehow i got thrown into this dispute.  think it was by rams.  what i can tell you is that i am likely the only one before this week that saw both teams play, saw wesley against cnu and del val against wash and jeff.  from those games and if gordan wants to vouch i told him that i thought delval would have trouble scoring against wesley, which they obviously did, getting only 17 with all those gift to's and penalty yards.  i am not sure what the beef is, other than some thin skin when frank mentions those facts and believes that the game would not be close if wesley plays a clean game.  it would not have been, simple as that.  now, if you want to credit delval with playing tough, sounds like the did.  they are good and may be the best in the east, i have not seen stjf so i dont know what they look like.  wesley is ranked 3rd for a reason and if you went to the game, which i did not this week, then you know why.  if not, your opinion is just that an opinion based on just boxscores.  have fun travel to other games and get a read on other teams, you may be surprised by what you find out.  frank is inciteful, nuff said!!!