East Region Fan Poll

[maxpower]

somehow i got thrown into this dispute.  think it was by rams.  what i can tell you is that i am likely the only one before this week that saw both teams play, saw wesley against cnu and del val against wash and jeff.  from those games and if gordan wants to vouch i told him that i thought delval would have trouble scoring against wesley, which they obviously did, getting only 17 with all those gift to's and penalty yards.  i am not sure what the beef is, other than some thin skin when frank mentions those facts and believes that the game would not be close if wesley plays a clean game.  it would not have been, simple as that.  now, if you want to credit delval with playing tough, sounds like the did.  they are good and may be the best in the east, i have not seen stjf so i dont know what they look like.  wesley is ranked 3rd for a reason and if you went to the game, which i did not this week, then you know why.  if not, your opinion is just that an opinion based on just boxscores.  have fun travel to other games and get a read on other teams, you may be surprised by what you find out.  frank is inciteful, nuff said!!!

that's for sure...

[Frank Rossi]

somehow i got thrown into this dispute.  think it was by rams.  what i can tell you is that i am likely the only one before this week that saw both teams play, saw wesley against cnu and del val against wash and jeff.  from those games and if gordan wants to vouch i told him that i thought delval would have trouble scoring against wesley, which they obviously did, getting only 17 with all those gift to's and penalty yards.  i am not sure what the beef is, other than some thin skin when frank mentions those facts and believes that the game would not be close if wesley plays a clean game.  it would not have been, simple as that.  now, if you want to credit delval with playing tough, sounds like the did.  they are good and may be the best in the east, i have not seen stjf so i dont know what they look like.  wesley is ranked 3rd for a reason and if you went to the game, which i did not this week, then you know why.  if not, your opinion is just that an opinion based on just boxscores.  have fun travel to other games and get a read on other teams, you may be surprised by what you find out.  frank is inciteful, nuff said!!!

that's for sure...

LOL... Good catch max.  +k

[Frank Rossi]

your right should of called it what it was ....a cheap shot. As many people have emailed me and asked what your beef was w/ either dvc or the mac. People do question you and your words frank and since your a pollster want to know if there is a bias towards union and the LL, thus the validity of this site and its polls. That has always been my point. Has nothing to do w/ where you or any pollster ranks dvc. You may have not meant it that way, but there are people out there who are thinking it.

I invite anyone who questions my perspectives to reach out to me directly at rossif@yahoo.com -- I'm always happy to set the record straight and to discuss Division III Football even off these boards.  I never shy away from a good debate with respectful treatment, and I'd hope others would follow suit.

However, PBR, it's pretty nonsensical to suppose that if I had some sort of LL or Union bias when I report on regional or national issues (which I don't), it would somehow affect my perspective on an inter-regional matchup between two teams that have basically nothing to do with either the LL or Union.  In addition, it makes even less sense that I would make statements somehow "cheap shot[ting]" the East Region participant in such a matchup if I wasn't trying to lend honest assessments of a game (and were instead talking with my heart about a team based only on their regional affiliation).  Talking about turnover ratio, offensive problems and penalty yardage, last time I checked, is a factual discussion that might help explain an opinion.  It's not grounds for a "cheap shot."

Thus, I'm done arguing this point with you publicly, since the nonsense level has gotten a little extreme.  We had a loss in our Division III family this weekend with the passing of Louis Giuntini of Thiel College's football family.  I think stories like these pretty much put petty arguments like these in perspective.  More info available here:

http://d3football.com/notables/2010/09/giuntini-passes-away

[theoriginalupstate]

I heard that Frank Rossi has a bias towards puppies over cats...

Discuss...

[Jonny Utah]

No doubt that DVC belongs #1 in the ERFP now...

On the road, vs the #3 team in the country and Wesley had to come from behind to beat them...

It was more a case of Wesley beating themselves, though.  Here's my problem with annointing DVC based solely on the score:

Wesley had six turnovers, five in the second half alone.  Wesley also committed 13 penalties for about 200 yards.  Yet, DVC still only put up 17.  Gordon will have a better perspective of this game having announced it.  However, Wesley's sloppiness was a lot more to blame for the nature of the score.

Just wanted to throw in my two cents:

I agree with almost everything Frank has said regarding how he ranks teams and where he ranks them.  I also don't think Frank is pro-Union or pro-LL in where it would effect how he ranks teams.  I think he explains himself very well in terms of why he would rank these teams, and his point about Del Val's offense is a great one, and actually made me change my own mind as to why they may not be a top 5 or 10 team. 

That being said, I can see PBR's point about how Frank was somewhat dismissive in his first post above.  I also didn't see or hear the game, but from the recaps on this board, many of Wesley's turnovers were due to plays that DelVall may have made.  2 Interceptions and a QB fumble after a sack tells me that DelVall's defense should probably get more credit than Frank gave them in his first post here.  Frank said it was more of a case of Wesley beating themselves and that their sloppiness was to blame.  Actually Frank said Wesley's sloppiness was a lot more to blame for the nature of the score.  This to me means that DelVall had little to do with forcing turnovers when possibly the opposite is true. 

I mean, what if DelVall just scored on one of those times in the redzone?  What would we all be talking about?  Probably about how great DelValls defense was causing all those turnovers and how it could have been 41-21 if DelVall wasn't so sloppy in the redzone.

Either way the argument got kind of off track.  The focus should have been on Frank's first statement here, and not about how he ranks teams.  Then again, maybe I'm biased because I agree with Frank about how where he ranks teams.

Ah well, great Monday night game last night.  One of the best I've seen in a while.

[PBR...]

No doubt that DVC belongs #1 in the ERFP now...

On the road, vs the #3 team in the country and Wesley had to come from behind to beat them...

It was more a case of Wesley beating themselves, though.  Here's my problem with annointing DVC based solely on the score:

Wesley had six turnovers, five in the second half alone.  Wesley also committed 13 penalties for about 200 yards.  Yet, DVC still only put up 17.  Gordon will have a better perspective of this game having announced it.  However, Wesley's sloppiness was a lot more to blame for the nature of the score.

Just wanted to throw in my two cents:

I agree with almost everything Frank has said regarding how he ranks teams and where he ranks them.  I also don't think Frank is pro-Union or pro-LL in where it would effect how he ranks teams.  I think he explains himself very well in terms of why he would rank these teams, and his point about Del Val's offense is a great one, and actually made me change my own mind as to why they may not be a top 5 or 10 team. 

That being said, I can see PBR's point about how Frank was somewhat dismissive in his first post above.  I also didn't see or hear the game, but from the recaps on this board, many of Wesley's turnovers were due to plays that DelVall may have made.  2 Interceptions and a QB fumble after a sack tells me that DelVall's defense should probably get more credit than Frank gave them in his first post here.  Frank said it was more of a case of Wesley beating themselves and that their sloppiness was to blame.  Actually Frank said Wesley's sloppiness was a lot more to blame for the nature of the score.  This to me means that DelVall had little to do with forcing turnovers when possibly the opposite is true. 

I mean, what if DelVall just scored on one of those times in the redzone?  What would we all be talking about?  Probably about how great DelValls defense was causing all those turnovers and how it could have been 41-21 if DelVall wasn't so sloppy in the redzone.

Either way the argument got kind of off track.  The focus should have been on Frank's first statement here, and not about how he ranks teams.  Then again, maybe I'm biased because I agree with Frank about how where he ranks teams.

Ah well, great Monday night game last night.  One of the best I've seen in a while.

exactly...well stated as i said all along it had nothing to do w/ the rankings.

[Frank Rossi]

Just wanted to throw in my two cents:

I agree with almost everything Frank has said regarding how he ranks teams and where he ranks them.  I also don't think Frank is pro-Union or pro-LL in where it would effect how he ranks teams.  I think he explains himself very well in terms of why he would rank these teams, and his point about Del Val's offense is a great one, and actually made me change my own mind as to why they may not be a top 5 or 10 team. 

That being said, I can see PBR's point about how Frank was somewhat dismissive in his first post above.  I also didn't see or hear the game, but from the recaps on this board, many of Wesley's turnovers were due to plays that DelVall may have made.  2 Interceptions and a QB fumble after a sack tells me that DelVall's defense should probably get more credit than Frank gave them in his first post here.  Frank said it was more of a case of Wesley beating themselves and that their sloppiness was to blame.  Actually Frank said Wesley's sloppiness was a lot more to blame for the nature of the score.  This to me means that DelVall had little to do with forcing turnovers when possibly the opposite is true. 

I mean, what if DelVall just scored on one of those times in the redzone?  What would we all be talking about?  Probably about how great DelValls defense was causing all those turnovers and how it could have been 41-21 if DelVall wasn't so sloppy in the redzone.

Either way the argument got kind of off track.  The focus should have been on Frank's first statement here, and not about how he ranks teams.  Then again, maybe I'm biased because I agree with Frank about how where he ranks teams.

Ah well, great Monday night game last night.  One of the best I've seen in a while.

exactly...well stated as i said all along it had nothing to do w/ the rankings.

First off, thanks to Jonny and wesleydad for their comments.  +k to both

Second, with respect to discussing rankings, I think I was the one to bring them up to show that I didn't disrespect DVC's overall effort in the game.  I was simply stating that the drop by DVC following a loss was only a net-2-spot loss compared to my treatment of Wesley in the same ballot-to-ballot comparison, meaning I obviously had a great deal of respect for DVC before and after the game.  So, if I spun the issue off course, I apologize. 

A lot of times, we throw around statements on these boards as if they are the definitive word of God or something, and I'm guilty of it from time to time (I know, maxpower and Upstate, hard to believe ).  So, if I came across too harsh or as overstating my point Saturday, then I do apologize.  My main idea remains, though, that Wesley played very poorly on offense compared to expectations and other games this year.  DVC likely played very well on defense compared to what I would have expected.  So I have great  confidence in one half of DVC's team right now, and the jury is out for me on the other half.  I've got a very open mind still about DVC's offense, but I want to see some of the same spark we saw last year when it comes to the MAC scheduling coming up.  THEN I might agree that DVC is the absolute cream of the East with no doubts. 

Like I said last night, the death of the Thiel player put a lot in perspective for me last night, so I don't want this to continue being a petty argument about biases and the like.  I apologize as much as anyone for that.  Thanks.  +k PBR

[dlippiel]

I think SJF is a slightly stronger team that would be able to win in a shootout against Wesley.  So, SJF is one spot higher in my ballot right now than DelVal.

This is dlip's feeling as well, he is currently high on both SJF and Del Val giving SJF a slight nod. He is however rooting against the Cardinals this weekend so he is actually rooting for his position to be disproven...WTF

dlip feels Del Val deserves a ton...a ton of credit for their performance last week against a legitimate powerhouse in Wesley. To dlip a team of that calibur does not shoot themselves in the foot that many times without someone else pulling the trigger. Maybe #13 is to low maybe not. In comparison to over 200 programs 13 is pretty damn high. Yet after that game, and a dominating victory over the #20 team in the nation dlip would keep Del Val in the top 10.

With that being said he really does not question anyone ranking DV anywhere from 15-8 and can see arguments for anyone of those positions. It is incredibly hard to come up with a top 25 week in and week out considering the lack of media coverage and viewing options of all the games being played. **** dlip works so hard on his ER top ten looking at stats, results, player personal, as well as other criteria he can't ****ing imagine having to do a poll for the entire nation...plus his wife would kick his ass if he even took the time to try

[theoriginalupstate]

This is dlip's feeling as well, he is currently high on both SJF and Del Val giving SJF a slight nod. He is however rooting against the Cardinals this weekend so he is actually rooting for his position to be disproven...WTF

Oh no...

I've gone cross-eyed...

[PBR...]

Just wanted to throw in my two cents:

I agree with almost everything Frank has said regarding how he ranks teams and where he ranks them.  I also don't think Frank is pro-Union or pro-LL in where it would effect how he ranks teams.  I think he explains himself very well in terms of why he would rank these teams, and his point about Del Val's offense is a great one, and actually made me change my own mind as to why they may not be a top 5 or 10 team. 

That being said, I can see PBR's point about how Frank was somewhat dismissive in his first post above.  I also didn't see or hear the game, but from the recaps on this board, many of Wesley's turnovers were due to plays that DelVall may have made.  2 Interceptions and a QB fumble after a sack tells me that DelVall's defense should probably get more credit than Frank gave them in his first post here.  Frank said it was more of a case of Wesley beating themselves and that their sloppiness was to blame.  Actually Frank said Wesley's sloppiness was a lot more to blame for the nature of the score.  This to me means that DelVall had little to do with forcing turnovers when possibly the opposite is true. 

I mean, what if DelVall just scored on one of those times in the redzone?  What would we all be talking about?  Probably about how great DelValls defense was causing all those turnovers and how it could have been 41-21 if DelVall wasn't so sloppy in the redzone.

Either way the argument got kind of off track.  The focus should have been on Frank's first statement here, and not about how he ranks teams.  Then again, maybe I'm biased because I agree with Frank about how where he ranks teams.

Ah well, great Monday night game last night.  One of the best I've seen in a while.

exactly...well stated as i said all along it had nothing to do w/ the rankings.

First off, thanks to Jonny and wesleydad for their comments.  +k to both

Second, with respect to discussing rankings, I think I was the one to bring them up to show that I didn't disrespect DVC's overall effort in the game.  I was simply stating that the drop by DVC following a loss was only a net-2-spot loss compared to my treatment of Wesley in the same ballot-to-ballot comparison, meaning I obviously had a great deal of respect for DVC before and after the game.  So, if I spun the issue off course, I apologize. 

A lot of times, we throw around statements on these boards as if they are the definitive word of God or something, and I'm guilty of it from time to time (I know, maxpower and Upstate, hard to believe ).  So, if I came across too harsh or as overstating my point Saturday, then I do apologize.  My main idea remains, though, that Wesley played very poorly on offense compared to expectations and other games this year.  DVC likely played very well on defense compared to what I would have expected.  So I have great  confidence in one half of DVC's team right now, and the jury is out for me on the other half.  I've got a very open mind still about DVC's offense, but I want to see some of the same spark we saw last year when it comes to the MAC scheduling coming up.  THEN I might agree that DVC is the absolute cream of the East with no doubts. 

Like I said last night, the death of the Thiel player put a lot in perspective for me last night, so I don't want this to continue being a petty argument about biases and the like.  I apologize as much as anyone for that.  Thanks.  +k PBR

agreed...lets move onto this weeks games.... +k

[AUKaz00]

Still looking for a 10th poster.  If anyone's interested, send me a PM.

Week 4 Fan Poll  

Team	Record	Points	Last Rating	Next Week
1   Delaware Valley( 5 )	3-1	85	1	vs. Lebanon Valley
2   St. John Fisher( 4 )	4-0	84	2	at #9 Utica
3   Montclair State	3-0	72	3	at Kean
4   Cortland State	3-0	60	4	at New Jersey
5   Alfred	3-0	58	7	vs. Frostburg State
6   Springfield	3-1	25	8	vs. Merchant Marine
7   Ithaca	3-1	20	5	vs. Hartwick
8   Hobart	2-1	19	6	at St. Lawrence
9   Utica	4-0	18	NR	vs. #2 St. John Fisher
10  Rowan	2-1	17	9	at Buffalo State

Dropped Out:
#10 Curry


Also Receiving votes:              
Lycoming 13
Kean 10
Curry 9
Albright 2
Union 2
SUNY-Maritime 1
                    
            
Voting Distribution:            

Delaware Valley (1,1,1,3,2,2,1,NR,1,2)
St. John Fisher (2,3,2,1,1,1,2,NR,2,1)
Montclair State (3,2,4,2,4,3,3,NR,3,3)
Cortland (4,4,3,5,3,4,5,NR,5,6)
Alfred (5,5,5,4,5,5,4,NR,4,4)
Springfield(8,6,6,10,6,8,10,NR,NR,9)
Ithaca (7,NR,9,8,9,6,8,NR,NR,10)
Hobart (6,NR,NR,NR,7,7,7,NR,9,NR)
Utica (NR,8,10,NR,NR,10,6,NR,7,7)
Rowan (NR,9,7,6,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,5)
Lycoming (NR,10,NR,7,10,9,9,NR,NR,8)
Kean (NR,9,10,NR,10,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR)
Curry (10,NR,8,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,6,NR)
Albright (9,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR)
Union (NR,NR,10,9,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR)
SUNY-Maritime (NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,10,NR)


Key Matchups:
#2 St. John Fisher at #9 Utica
#3 Montclair State at Kean

[Doid23]

Why would Lycoming be behind Ithaca despite beating them this weekend, and their sole loss being to #10 Rowan?

[Yanks 99]

Still looking for a 10th poster.  If anyone's interested, send me a PM.

Week 4 Fan Poll 

Team	Record	Points	Last Rating	Next Week
1   Delaware Valley( 5 )	3-1	85	1	vs. Lebanon Valley
2   St. John Fisher( 4 )	4-0	84	2	at #9 Utica
3   Montclair State	3-0	72	3	at Kean
4   Cortland State	3-0	60	4	at New Jersey
5   Alfred	3-0	58	7	vs. Frostburg State
6   Springfield	3-1	25	8	vs. Merchant Marine
7   Ithaca	3-1	20	5	vs. Hartwick
8   Hobart	2-1	19	6	at St. Lawrence
9   Utica	4-0	18	NR	vs. #2 St. John Fisher
10  Rowan	2-1	17	9	at Buffalo State

Dropped Out:
#10 Curry


Also Receiving votes:               
Lycoming 13
Kean 10
Curry 9
Albright 2
Union 2
SUNY-Maritime 1
                     
            
Voting Distribution:            

Delaware Valley (1,1,1,3,2,2,1,NR,1,2)
St. John Fisher (2,3,2,1,1,1,2,NR,2,1)
Montclair State (3,2,4,2,4,3,3,NR,3,3)
Cortland (4,4,3,5,3,4,5,NR,5,6)
Alfred (5,5,5,4,5,5,4,NR,4,4)
Springfield(8,6,6,10,6,8,10,NR,NR,9)
Ithaca (7,NR,9,8,9,6,8,NR,NR,10)
Hobart (6,NR,NR,NR,7,7,7,NR,9,NR)
Utica (NR,8,10,NR,NR,10,6,NR,7,7)
Rowan (NR,9,7,6,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,5)
Lycoming (NR,10,NR,7,10,9,9,NR,NR,8)
Kean (NR,9,10,NR,10,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR)
Curry (10,NR,8,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,6,NR)
Albright (9,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR)
Union (NR,NR,10,9,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR)
SUNY-Maritime (NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,NR,10,NR)


Key Matchups:
#2 St. John Fisher at #9 Utica
#3 Montclair State at Kean

Wow...surprised Lycoming didn't get more love, with a 2-1 overall record with a big win over Ithaca and only a 7 point loss to Rowan.  Utica made it in the top 10 over Lycoming with wins against teams with a combined 4-9 record (and are generally terrible...RPI is the exception but even they are starring down the barrel of a 3-6 season), and Springfield (who is in my top 10) actually jumps two spots in the polls after a loss???  Strange week I guess...but it so early in the season, you are going to have weeks like this. 

[AUKaz00]

Why would Lycoming be behind Ithaca despite beating them this weekend, and their sole loss being to #10 Rowan?

Well, it is a poll and not just a listing of teams by record.  Ithaca had a few key injuries and lost by 2 on the road.  We've argued over the value of home field advantage before on this space, but the combination of those two could leave voters to consider Ithaca a top 10 team that happened to lose to an inferior opponent.

[Yanks 99]

Why would Lycoming be behind Ithaca despite beating them this weekend, and their sole loss being to #10 Rowan?

Well, it is a poll and not just a listing of teams by record.  Ithaca had a few key injuries and lost by 2 on the road.  We've argued over the value of home field advantage before on this space, but the combination of those two could leave voters to consider Ithaca a top 10 team that happened to lose to an inferior opponent.

It's so early in the year...everything will start playing itself out over the next few weeks.  Interesting week though...