East Region Fan Poll

[maxpower]

Let's face it...someday, Utica is going to in fact beat Fisher, Ithaca, and Alfred.  I mean...if they play every year for 50 years they would almost have to statisctically speaking. 

Tell that to the Washington Generals....

[Yanks 99]

Let's face it...someday, Utica is going to in fact beat Fisher, Ithaca, and Alfred.  I mean...if they play every year for 50 years they would almost have to statisctically speaking. 

Tell that to the Washington Generals....

Ha...I actually like Utica's chances better then the Generals...over the course of 50 years anyways...

[Bombers798891]

My "catch" was referring to UC beating SJF, I don't know if they can get the continued success w/o some sort of eye candy on campus (like SJF's facilities/Bills).  However with the familiarity between coaching staffs and Faggiano's ability to recruit I think they'll beat SJF within a couple years.

I don't think it happens this SatErday because SJF is too strong this year, but next year could be open for debate considering all of the losses in personnel SJF will have.

Anything Norwich can do, Utica should be able to 

But you're right. Eventually, things with break right for one team and they will do it. They've come close to beating Ithaca twice. You're probably correct that continued success is a long shot though, at least for now.

Is Fisher senior-heavy? I feel like Bailey has been there forever

[Yanks 99]

My "catch" was referring to UC beating SJF, I don't know if they can get the continued success w/o some sort of eye candy on campus (like SJF's facilities/Bills).  However with the familiarity between coaching staffs and Faggiano's ability to recruit I think they'll beat SJF within a couple years.

I don't think it happens this SatErday because SJF is too strong this year, but next year could be open for debate considering all of the losses in personnel SJF will have.

Anything Norwich can do, Utica should be able to 

But you're right. Eventually, things with break right for one team and they will do it. They've come close to beating Ithaca twice. You're probably correct that continued success is a long shot though, at least for now.

Is Fisher senior-heavy? I feel like Bailey has been there forever

Ha...when Utica gets a Pierre Garcon, I will have a little more faith that they may have a shot at taking down Fisher.  I have seen the film of that Hail Mary pass back in '04...great catch by Garcon in a crowd...only problem was he was clearly between the one and two yard line when he came down and made it no where near the endzone...

Long story short...it was a great call by the refs...

[dewcrew88]

82, if Ithaca doesn't get their run game on track they're going to drop a couple more.  I wouldn't be surprised if UC took out IC this year.  It's going to happen eventually and with the injuries and inconsistencies on the IC squad this may be the year.

I gotcha....I have posted this year that Utica looks strong, so they are on 'my' radar....I just cant imagine that a school in Utica, NY, virtually unheard of (sorry FA91) may apparently be out-recruiting Ithaca and all its tradition (i mean that seriously and as a compliment to Ithaca). 

If it is true as you predict....and we chalk it up to Faggiano's coaching and recruiting skills....then it is only logical that they will also catch Fisher in the near future.  Utica will be to Fisher what Fisher was to Ithaca, when out of know where Fisher 'Caught' them. 

It's just a matter of time before UC catches SJF.

Not many truer words have been spoken on these boards.

Great ATE piece...though I think Utica has light years to go before they are in SJF category.  Not when your conference record over the past 8 years is 8-35...with 4 of those wins over Norwich, and never having beat Ithaca, Fisher, or Alfred.  I mean...you have to get at least ONE win against one of those 3 teams before there is talk about "turning the corner"...

absolutely. I just think that they will catch up to Fisher sooner rather than later.

Define "catch up"

Beat? Have a better record than? Higher ranking? And are we talking about how the Wick "caught" everyone in 2007 by putting together one good season? How Springfield alternates good with bad? Or how Fisher caught--and passed--IC?

Could be any of the above. Although it will take sustained success to really be a part of that top echelon. I just think it happens sooner, within the next few years, as opposed to decades.

I think that way as an alum but also as a D3 observer. I think they can catch up to Ithaca soon too. In the first four years of the program, Utica was shut out. Last year, they only fell by a field goal. Being competitive is a start.

[Yanks 99]

82, if Ithaca doesn't get their run game on track they're going to drop a couple more.  I wouldn't be surprised if UC took out IC this year.  It's going to happen eventually and with the injuries and inconsistencies on the IC squad this may be the year.

I gotcha....I have posted this year that Utica looks strong, so they are on 'my' radar....I just cant imagine that a school in Utica, NY, virtually unheard of (sorry FA91) may apparently be out-recruiting Ithaca and all its tradition (i mean that seriously and as a compliment to Ithaca). 

If it is true as you predict....and we chalk it up to Faggiano's coaching and recruiting skills....then it is only logical that they will also catch Fisher in the near future.  Utica will be to Fisher what Fisher was to Ithaca, when out of know where Fisher 'Caught' them. 

It's just a matter of time before UC catches SJF.

Not many truer words have been spoken on these boards.

Great ATE piece...though I think Utica has light years to go before they are in SJF category.  Not when your conference record over the past 8 years is 8-35...with 4 of those wins over Norwich, and never having beat Ithaca, Fisher, or Alfred.  I mean...you have to get at least ONE win against one of those 3 teams before there is talk about "turning the corner"...

absolutely. I just think that they will catch up to Fisher sooner rather than later.

Define "catch up"

Beat? Have a better record than? Higher ranking? And are we talking about how the Wick "caught" everyone in 2007 by putting together one good season? How Springfield alternates good with bad? Or how Fisher caught--and passed--IC?

Could be any of the above. Although it will take sustained success to really be a part of that top echelon. I just think it happens sooner, within the next few years, as opposed to decades.

I think that way as an alum but also as a D3 observer. I think they can catch up to Ithaca soon too. In the first four years of the program, Utica was shut out. Last year, they only fell by a field goal. Being competitive is a start.

Again...if this is simply to beat Ithaca/Fisher...maybe...but if you are talking short term about "catching" Ithaca or Fisher as putting yourself in their category on their level from a program standpoint...or even to be as consistent as them...you are dreaming. 

[AUPepBand]

Let's face it...someday, Utica is going to in fact beat Fisher, Ithaca, and Alfred.  I mean...if they play every year for 50 years they would almost have to statisctically speaking. 

Tell that to the Washington Generals....

Funny you should bring up the Generals....AU grad Tim Burkhart had the dubious honor(?) of serving as captain of the Generals.

On Saxon Warriors!

[SJFF82]

and I actually thought that we would stop hearing this someday...I mean, respectfully, can we chalk IC's success in 798891 to the glaciers that formed the beautiful panoramic views in Ithaca....of course the facilities matter....but what is your point?

I know nobody wants to hear this from me, but Fisher was a decent program at one time before they were a doormat in the late '90's and early '00's.  In 1995, with a **** hole field, barely stands and barely a scoreboard (not to mention the so-called training facilities), we started the season 6-0 and were ranked 4th in the East region and in line for a play-off bid...back when a coaches poll determined the top 4 from each region and 16 total went to the NCAA.  We finished 7-3, losing to then powerhouses RPI and Buff State in very competitive games.  In fact we were just slightly better than .500 in my four years from 92-95.  

Vosburgh was the coach and was building the groundwork for what we have today.

So its not just the Bills....Vosburgh kinda knows what he's doing.

How many of those 1995 wins had to be forfeited because of an ineligible player?

What, to me, distinguishes Vosburgh and the SJF program as being a good/great program, has little to do with the mid-'90s.  What I look at is the 2000-2010 goings on.  This is a team that has never been really afraid to face tougher opponents in its non-conference schedule, even when Pool A/C issues may have changed many schools' approaches to such scheduling.  I really think the belief is (as Coach Vos said on "In the HuddLLe" a couple weekends back) you have to play the tough teams to become better.

The facilities have helped the program, sure.  However, it is still necessary to recruit the top-level players, get those players to play up to their potential and create an impetus for the local and alumni crowd to support the team.  I've seen no other program in the East nearly perfect those three things as well as SJF has in the past decade -- and this is coming from what you guys tend to refer as "a Liberty League guy."

Sure, every team has the capability to shock the conference in any given year.  On the other end, any good team has the capability to be upset in a couple games and, thus, not finish with a 9-1/8-1 record every year.  Yet, it's consistency that matters -- and in the 2000s, SJF consistently got better and has maintained that better level of play since the semifinals appearance.  I don't see how anyone can try to tear apart the job Vosburgh has done turning his team into a national-caliber contender on an annual basis.

When we interviewed Union tailback Chris Coney last weekend, he brought up how Coach John Audino convinced him to pick Union based on Audino's dedication to "the win."  That still trumps facilities in a lot of players' minds as they get recruited.  The facilities are indeed prime at SJF, but I think it's a chicken-and-egg question about whether the dedication to bring the program to the consistency led to the facilities or vice-versa.  I think the dedication on the part of Vos, his staff and, in turn, his school's administration has led to the program's success before the facilities.

I've watched Fisher for a while, and I've never NOT been impressed with the entire program.

as a Fisher homer...82 of course agrees with this post...but seriously...I had the same thought about the 'chicken-egg' theory, just that I didnt want to overkill the subject....

...nice to hear that perception from an outsider with no SJF bias Frank.

Recruiting with class still does mean something....it may be premature, but Faggiano at Utica is proof of this.  He was the recruiter that brought much of Fisher's talent to the 04, 05 and 06 squads.  Now he's at Utica...that's right...in Utica, NY, the armpit of NY, with a 10 year old program and seating for 1200, and he's already winning.

Coincidence?  What NFL team plays at Utica?

and of course I am not comparing a 4-0 start (Utica's) to SJF's runs in the play-offs, just comparing pre Faggiano Utica to present Utica.

[SJFF82]

and I actually thought that we would stop hearing this someday...I mean, respectfully, can we chalk IC's success in 798891 to the glaciers that formed the beautiful panoramic views in Ithaca....of course the facilities matter....but what is your point?

I know nobody wants to hear this from me, but Fisher was a decent program at one time before they were a doormat in the late '90's and early '00's.  In 1995, with a **** hole field, barely stands and barely a scoreboard (not to mention the so-called training facilities), we started the season 6-0 and were ranked 4th in the East region and in line for a play-off bid...back when a coaches poll determined the top 4 from each region and 16 total went to the NCAA.  We finished 7-3, losing to then powerhouses RPI and Buff State in very competitive games.  In fact we were just slightly better than .500 in my four years from 92-95.  

Vosburgh was the coach and was building the groundwork for what we have today.

So its not just the Bills....Vosburgh kinda knows what he's doing.

How many of those 1995 wins had to be forfeited because of an ineligible player?

just the one we beat AU 52-35...

Pep was there...and even the visitor bleachers at Growney were a step up from that field...

Ha!  Believe it or not, same bleachers Pep....the present visitor bleachers are the SAME exact ones my Mom and Dad sat in on the home side of our field from 92-95. 

[AUPepBand]

and I actually thought that we would stop hearing this someday...I mean, respectfully, can we chalk IC's success in 798891 to the glaciers that formed the beautiful panoramic views in Ithaca....of course the facilities matter....but what is your point?

I know nobody wants to hear this from me, but Fisher was a decent program at one time before they were a doormat in the late '90's and early '00's.  In 1995, with a **** hole field, barely stands and barely a scoreboard (not to mention the so-called training facilities), we started the season 6-0 and were ranked 4th in the East region and in line for a play-off bid...back when a coaches poll determined the top 4 from each region and 16 total went to the NCAA.  We finished 7-3, losing to then powerhouses RPI and Buff State in very competitive games.  In fact we were just slightly better than .500 in my four years from 92-95.  

Vosburgh was the coach and was building the groundwork for what we have today.

So its not just the Bills....Vosburgh kinda knows what he's doing.

How many of those 1995 wins had to be forfeited because of an ineligible player?

just the one we beat AU 52-35...

Pep was there...and even the visitor bleachers at Growney were a step up from that field...

Ha!  Believe it or not, same bleachers Pep....the present visitor bleachers are the SAME exact ones my Mom and Dad sat in on the home side of our field from 92-95. 

Indeed, there were NO BLEACHERS on the visitor side...just a slight hillside lawn on which to sit or stand. Pep remembers there was, on the home side, one main section of bleachers that seated maybe 300 or so with a small press box (?) and maybe the bleachers of which you speak.

[Pat Coleman]

Small, wooden open-air press box. I was there in the pre-laptop era, so I don't remember if they had electricity. Guess they had to to run the scoreboard, though.

[SJFF82]

Small, wooden open-air press box. I was there in the pre-laptop era, so I don't remember if they had electricity. Guess they had to to run the scoreboard, though.

'Press Box'....that is an insult to press boxes   That THING, we used to be afraid to stand on the sidelines in front of it for fear it was going to topple on top of us.  One of our coaches used to 'joke' that it was going to mysteriously burn down overnight one of those nights.

[Bombers798891]

and I actually thought that we would stop hearing this someday...I mean, respectfully, can we chalk IC's success in 798891 to the glaciers that formed the beautiful panoramic views in Ithaca....of course the facilities matter....but what is your point?

I know nobody wants to hear this from me, but Fisher was a decent program at one time before they were a doormat in the late '90's and early '00's.  In 1995, with a **** hole field, barely stands and barely a scoreboard (not to mention the so-called training facilities), we started the season 6-0 and were ranked 4th in the East region and in line for a play-off bid...back when a coaches poll determined the top 4 from each region and 16 total went to the NCAA.  We finished 7-3, losing to then powerhouses RPI and Buff State in very competitive games.  In fact we were just slightly better than .500 in my four years from 92-95.  

Vosburgh was the coach and was building the groundwork for what we have today.

So its not just the Bills....Vosburgh kinda knows what he's doing.

How many of those 1995 wins had to be forfeited because of an ineligible player?

What, to me, distinguishes Vosburgh and the SJF program as being a good/great program, has little to do with the mid-'90s.  What I look at is the 2000-2010 goings on.  This is a team that has never been really afraid to face tougher opponents in its non-conference schedule, even when Pool A/C issues may have changed many schools' approaches to such scheduling.  I really think the belief is (as Coach Vos said on "In the HuddLLe" a couple weekends back) you have to play the tough teams to become better.

The facilities have helped the program, sure.  However, it is still necessary to recruit the top-level players, get those players to play up to their potential and create an impetus for the local and alumni crowd to support the team.  I've seen no other program in the East nearly perfect those three things as well as SJF has in the past decade -- and this is coming from what you guys tend to refer as "a Liberty League guy."

Sure, every team has the capability to shock the conference in any given year.  On the other end, any good team has the capability to be upset in a couple games and, thus, not finish with a 9-1/8-1 record every year.  Yet, it's consistency that matters -- and in the 2000s, SJF consistently got better and has maintained that better level of play since the semifinals appearance.  I don't see how anyone can try to tear apart the job Vosburgh has done turning his team into a national-caliber contender on an annual basis.

When we interviewed Union tailback Chris Coney last weekend, he brought up how Coach John Audino convinced him to pick Union based on Audino's dedication to "the win."  That still trumps facilities in a lot of players' minds as they get recruited.  The facilities are indeed prime at SJF, but I think it's a chicken-and-egg question about whether the dedication to bring the program to the consistency led to the facilities or vice-versa.  I think the dedication on the part of Vos, his staff and, in turn, his school's administration has led to the program's success before the facilities.

I've watched Fisher for a while, and I've never NOT been impressed with the entire program.

as a Fisher homer...82 of course agrees with this post...but seriously...I had the same thought about the 'chicken-egg' theory, just that I didnt want to overkill the subject....

...nice to hear that perception from an outsider with no SJF bias Frank.

Recruiting with class still does mean something....it may be premature, but Faggiano at Utica is proof of this.  He was the recruiter that brought much of Fisher's talent to the 04, 05 and 06 squads.  Now he's at Utica...that's right...in Utica, NY, the armpit of NY, with a 10 year old program and seating for 1200, and he's already winning.

Coincidence?  What NFL team plays at Utica?

and of course I am not comparing a 4-0 start (Utica's) to SJF's runs in the play-offs, just comparing pre Faggiano Utica to present Utica.

I think, much like our debate to the status of the East Region, there are a multitude of reasons. Certainly, I don't think Fisher's success has been just a product of the facilities, and I don't think anyone who's brought up facilities has implied that. You don't obliterate your main conference rival five years in a row because you have nicer bleachers.

But it seems silly we can't admit that it plays a role. Just like coaching, tuition, financial aid, location, tradition, hotness of the student bodies, panoramic views, etc. all play roles. Takes different strokes to move the world

[SJFF82]

and I actually thought that we would stop hearing this someday...I mean, respectfully, can we chalk IC's success in 798891 to the glaciers that formed the beautiful panoramic views in Ithaca....of course the facilities matter....but what is your point?

I know nobody wants to hear this from me, but Fisher was a decent program at one time before they were a doormat in the late '90's and early '00's.  In 1995, with a **** hole field, barely stands and barely a scoreboard (not to mention the so-called training facilities), we started the season 6-0 and were ranked 4th in the East region and in line for a play-off bid...back when a coaches poll determined the top 4 from each region and 16 total went to the NCAA.  We finished 7-3, losing to then powerhouses RPI and Buff State in very competitive games.  In fact we were just slightly better than .500 in my four years from 92-95.  

Vosburgh was the coach and was building the groundwork for what we have today.

So its not just the Bills....Vosburgh kinda knows what he's doing.

How many of those 1995 wins had to be forfeited because of an ineligible player?

What, to me, distinguishes Vosburgh and the SJF program as being a good/great program, has little to do with the mid-'90s.  What I look at is the 2000-2010 goings on.  This is a team that has never been really afraid to face tougher opponents in its non-conference schedule, even when Pool A/C issues may have changed many schools' approaches to such scheduling.  I really think the belief is (as Coach Vos said on "In the HuddLLe" a couple weekends back) you have to play the tough teams to become better.

The facilities have helped the program, sure.  However, it is still necessary to recruit the top-level players, get those players to play up to their potential and create an impetus for the local and alumni crowd to support the team.  I've seen no other program in the East nearly perfect those three things as well as SJF has in the past decade -- and this is coming from what you guys tend to refer as "a Liberty League guy."

Sure, every team has the capability to shock the conference in any given year.  On the other end, any good team has the capability to be upset in a couple games and, thus, not finish with a 9-1/8-1 record every year.  Yet, it's consistency that matters -- and in the 2000s, SJF consistently got better and has maintained that better level of play since the semifinals appearance.  I don't see how anyone can try to tear apart the job Vosburgh has done turning his team into a national-caliber contender on an annual basis.

When we interviewed Union tailback Chris Coney last weekend, he brought up how Coach John Audino convinced him to pick Union based on Audino's dedication to "the win."  That still trumps facilities in a lot of players' minds as they get recruited.  The facilities are indeed prime at SJF, but I think it's a chicken-and-egg question about whether the dedication to bring the program to the consistency led to the facilities or vice-versa.  I think the dedication on the part of Vos, his staff and, in turn, his school's administration has led to the program's success before the facilities.

I've watched Fisher for a while, and I've never NOT been impressed with the entire program.

as a Fisher homer...82 of course agrees with this post...but seriously...I had the same thought about the 'chicken-egg' theory, just that I didnt want to overkill the subject....

...nice to hear that perception from an outsider with no SJF bias Frank.

Recruiting with class still does mean something....it may be premature, but Faggiano at Utica is proof of this.  He was the recruiter that brought much of Fisher's talent to the 04, 05 and 06 squads.  Now he's at Utica...that's right...in Utica, NY, the armpit of NY, with a 10 year old program and seating for 1200, and he's already winning.

Coincidence?  What NFL team plays at Utica?

and of course I am not comparing a 4-0 start (Utica's) to SJF's runs in the play-offs, just comparing pre Faggiano Utica to present Utica.

I think, much like our debate to the status of the East Region, there are a multitude of reasons. Certainly, I don't think Fisher's success has been just a product of the facilities, and I don't think anyone who's brought up facilities has implied that. You don't obliterate your main conference rival five years in a row because you have nicer bleachers.

But it seems silly we can't admit that it plays a role. Just like coaching, tuition, financial aid, location, tradition, hotness of the student bodies, panoramic views, etc. all play roles. Takes different strokes to move the world

...OK....but who's not admitting it?

[Bombers798891]

and I actually thought that we would stop hearing this someday...I mean, respectfully, can we chalk IC's success in 798891 to the glaciers that formed the beautiful panoramic views in Ithaca....of course the facilities matter....but what is your point?

I know nobody wants to hear this from me, but Fisher was a decent program at one time before they were a doormat in the late '90's and early '00's.  In 1995, with a **** hole field, barely stands and barely a scoreboard (not to mention the so-called training facilities), we started the season 6-0 and were ranked 4th in the East region and in line for a play-off bid...back when a coaches poll determined the top 4 from each region and 16 total went to the NCAA.  We finished 7-3, losing to then powerhouses RPI and Buff State in very competitive games.  In fact we were just slightly better than .500 in my four years from 92-95.  

Vosburgh was the coach and was building the groundwork for what we have today.

So its not just the Bills....Vosburgh kinda knows what he's doing.

How many of those 1995 wins had to be forfeited because of an ineligible player?

What, to me, distinguishes Vosburgh and the SJF program as being a good/great program, has little to do with the mid-'90s.  What I look at is the 2000-2010 goings on.  This is a team that has never been really afraid to face tougher opponents in its non-conference schedule, even when Pool A/C issues may have changed many schools' approaches to such scheduling.  I really think the belief is (as Coach Vos said on "In the HuddLLe" a couple weekends back) you have to play the tough teams to become better.

The facilities have helped the program, sure.  However, it is still necessary to recruit the top-level players, get those players to play up to their potential and create an impetus for the local and alumni crowd to support the team.  I've seen no other program in the East nearly perfect those three things as well as SJF has in the past decade -- and this is coming from what you guys tend to refer as "a Liberty League guy."

Sure, every team has the capability to shock the conference in any given year.  On the other end, any good team has the capability to be upset in a couple games and, thus, not finish with a 9-1/8-1 record every year.  Yet, it's consistency that matters -- and in the 2000s, SJF consistently got better and has maintained that better level of play since the semifinals appearance.  I don't see how anyone can try to tear apart the job Vosburgh has done turning his team into a national-caliber contender on an annual basis.

When we interviewed Union tailback Chris Coney last weekend, he brought up how Coach John Audino convinced him to pick Union based on Audino's dedication to "the win."  That still trumps facilities in a lot of players' minds as they get recruited.  The facilities are indeed prime at SJF, but I think it's a chicken-and-egg question about whether the dedication to bring the program to the consistency led to the facilities or vice-versa.  I think the dedication on the part of Vos, his staff and, in turn, his school's administration has led to the program's success before the facilities.

I've watched Fisher for a while, and I've never NOT been impressed with the entire program.

as a Fisher homer...82 of course agrees with this post...but seriously...I had the same thought about the 'chicken-egg' theory, just that I didnt want to overkill the subject....

...nice to hear that perception from an outsider with no SJF bias Frank.

Recruiting with class still does mean something....it may be premature, but Faggiano at Utica is proof of this.  He was the recruiter that brought much of Fisher's talent to the 04, 05 and 06 squads.  Now he's at Utica...that's right...in Utica, NY, the armpit of NY, with a 10 year old program and seating for 1200, and he's already winning.

Coincidence?  What NFL team plays at Utica?

and of course I am not comparing a 4-0 start (Utica's) to SJF's runs in the play-offs, just comparing pre Faggiano Utica to present Utica.

I think, much like our debate to the status of the East Region, there are a multitude of reasons. Certainly, I don't think Fisher's success has been just a product of the facilities, and I don't think anyone who's brought up facilities has implied that. You don't obliterate your main conference rival five years in a row because you have nicer bleachers.

But it seems silly we can't admit that it plays a role. Just like coaching, tuition, financial aid, location, tradition, hotness of the student bodies, panoramic views, etc. all play roles. Takes different strokes to move the world

...OK....but who's not admitting it?

Fair point. A better way to say it may just be, it seems odd how defensive people get when the topic is mentioned