East Region Fan Poll

[PA_wesleyfan]

   Other teams have done far more unjust things to Wesley than not scheduling them at all.  There have been good  programs who have backed out of contracts more than a few times in the last few years.  I would think that a team with 8 or 9 games would welcome an opponent that would give them a hell of a game and would actually help them maybe get a playoff berth. But for this year it worked out. I am sure as soon as the season ends Wesley will be sending out it usual feelers to all D II and D III programs looking to fill their schedule. Enjoy the playoffs.

[pumkinattack]

I would've personally enjoyed the game in the regular season (and will now).  It's a great pleasure to get out of region and play an excellent team, which I consider Wesley to be - at least in the past decade or so.  Also appreciate the input.  I tend to follow east region teams and pay a little attention to the D3 top 25 and ORV teams, but not at the personnel level. 

Why people are feeling the need to malign everything Hobart is what's gotten me combative (same way I responded to the character impugning done against UofR earlier).  It's nonsense.  There's lot of things I could say about a lot of places, but who cares.  I only really care about Hobart becoming a better place each day and this game will do that.  With all due respect, I hope we play a great game and beat the hell of out Wesley, but either way it'll be a valuable experience.  It'll also mark the first time a class at Hobart gotten to play two teams that you could call top 5 (ish I realize Wesley's 7th in this D3 poll which is sort of the standard bearer and better than the AFCA one). 

[wesleydad]

pumkin, have you decided on the trip yet?  as far as all this talk goes, i agree with a post a little ways back, dont feel like looking for it and havent worked on the quote thing, that stated that no matter what happened hobart would be in since they have an AQ.  their seed would likely not have suffered much if they are truly a 7 with a loss, but they certainly would have had a home game and kept wesley out with a win.  not going to argue that wesley would be a better 2 lose team than anyone else out there.  so play wesley and beat them in the regular season and you dont have to play them in the playoffs.  as the season has gone on I would think you had a better chance to beat them early in the season.  wesley is playing its best football at this point and looking at the last couple of games i am not sure that hobart can say the same.

[Ralph Turner]

Welcome back Upstate!

+1 to you! 

[AUKaz00]

Guess we'll just go with 5 (just like the SRFP which is appropriate seeing how there's so many East-South matchups this weekend).

Week 11 Fan Poll 

Team	Record	Points	Last Rating	Next Week
1   Delaware Valley ( 4 )	10-0	49	1	vs. Norwich
2   Salisbury( 1 )	9-1	46	2	vs. #10 Western New England
3   Kean	9-1	39	3	vs. Christopher Newport
4   Hobart	7-1	32	6	at #2 (South) Wesley
5   St. John Fisher	8-2	28	8	at #3 (South) Johns Hopkins
6   Cortland State	8-2	27	7	vs. Albright
7t  Lycoming	8-2	17	9	End of Season
7t  Montclair State	8-2	17	4	End of Season
9   Widener	8-2	10	5	vs. Waynesburg
10  Western New England	10-1	5	10	at #2 Salisbury

Dropped Out:


Also Receiving votes:               
Amherst 3
Alfred 1
Union 1

            
Voting Distribution:            

Delaware Valley (1,2,1,1,1)
Salisbury (2,1,2,2,2)
Kean (4,3,3,3,3)
Hobart (6,4,5,4,4)
St. John Fisher (3,5,4,5,8)
Cortland State (5,7,4,7,5)
Lycoming (7,9,7,9,6)
Montclair State (NR,6,8,6,7)
Widener (9,8,9,8,NR)
Western New England (NR,10,10,10,9)
Amherst (8,NR,NR,NR,NR)
Alfred (10,NR,NR,NR,NR)
Union (NR,NR,NR,NR,10)


Key Matchups:
#4 Hobart at #2 (South) Wesley
#5 St. John Fisher at #3 (South) Johns Hopkins
#10 Western New England at #2 Salisbury

[Yanks 99]

I read through the Around the Region for the Northeast (which covers the NESCAC, NEFC, and ECFC).  I was a good write up...and when reading through the write up, especially about Western New England and Norwich getting into the NCAA tournament for the first time, it reminded me of St. Lawrence's run last year when they made the tournament for the first time in forever.  It's good to see that stuff from time to time and reminds you why D3 football is one of the very best sports around...

I will say this though...I was caught off guard a bit by the WNE's Head Coach (Keith Emery).  He said that "I was just disappointed personally because I thought we would be a higher seed."  There were only 7 teams in the entire 32 team field that had more than one-loss, and ten teams that are undefeated.  Honestly...what seed did he think he was going to get?  Did he think he was going to get a home game?  A rematch with Norwich in the first round while a couple of unbeatens battle it out in Round #1?  I mean, the guy has been at the helm for 7 seasons in the NEFC...he has to have some sort of clue about the reality of where the NEFC stands...

[Frank Rossi]

The Committee in the mid-2000s didn't do well to set expectations, with Curry getting a very high seed at least twice.  I think the NEFC just got a rude awakening this year -- it's a good message, and I'd encourage the schools not to ignore it.  Subjectivity is finally part of the process in some small way (but large enough to matter).

[Bombers798891]

I read through the Around the Region for the Northeast (which covers the NESCAC, NEFC, and ECFC).  I was a good write up...and when reading through the write up, especially about Western New England and Norwich getting into the NCAA tournament for the first time, it reminded me of St. Lawrence's run last year when they made the tournament for the first time in forever.  It's good to see that stuff from time to time and reminds you why D3 football is one of the very best sports around...

I will say this though...I was caught off guard a bit by the WNE's Head Coach (Keith Emery).  He said that "I was just disappointed personally because I thought we would be a higher seed."  There were only 7 teams in the entire 32 team field that had more than one-loss, and ten teams that are undefeated.  Honestly...what seed did he think he was going to get?  Did he think he was going to get a home game?  A rematch with Norwich in the first round while a couple of unbeatens battle it out in Round #1?  I mean, the guy has been at the helm for 7 seasons in the NEFC...he has to have some sort of clue about the reality of where the NEFC stands...

I'm sure he does. What are we expecting him to say? He knows his team is going to get obliterated by Salisbury (or any high seed) so he's upset. They'll lose by 40 points, Norwich will get obliterated, and we'll all get a nice reminder of how bad these teams truly are

[Yanks 99]

The Committee in the mid-2000s didn't do well to set expectations, with Curry getting a very hide seed at least twice.  I think the NEFC just got a rude awakening this year -- it's a good message, and I'd encourage the schools not to ignore it.  Subjectivity is finally part of the process in some small way (but large enough to matter).

I agree...and as I stated earlier in the week, I think what the committee did this year was fantastic. 

I am all for the Pool A bids...but still want the best teams in the tournament (I know...I want my cake, and eat it too).  This is the first time in my memory where it looks like the committee stopped being lazy, and did what was right for the overall game/tournament.

That being said...I still shake my head a bit at the WNE Coach thinking he was going to get a higher seed...which kind of implies that he thought he was getting a home game.  I am making a big assumption by thinking this...but if that is what he was thinking, one would have to assume that you would be one of the "Top 16" teams of the 32 teams in the tournament.  Forget the NEFC's putrid record in the playoffs (2-9 overall I believe).  Just looking at the overall tournament...there were 10 teams that were undefeated.  WNE isn't getting seeded ahead of these ten teams.  Then there were another 14 one-loss teams (not including WNE in this total) that made the tournament.  Of these 14 teams, 9 of them had their one loss to another playoff team (not to a 5-4 Mass-Maritime team out of the NEFC like WNE).  That is 19 teams right there that would absolutely get "seeded" ahead of WNE...and not including other one loss teams that didn't lose to playoff teams (Thomas Moore, Kean, Monmouth, Dubuque, and Hobart...all of whom almost everyone would argue is better then WNE).  Once you hit the final 10-12 teams...much of the matchups become matchups based on proximity.

Long story short...there is no way that WNE got shafted by where and who they play.

[Frank Rossi]

Here's the bad news for the NEFC and the ECFC... and this is where it gets complicated...

Let's look at the number of OOC games available in the NEFC and ECFC... and then the number in the E8, LL, NJAC and MAC.

NEFC:

16 teams (each division with 8 teams).  Assume 9-game schedules.
OOCs per Team = 2
2 x 16 teams = 32 OOC games

ECFC:

8 teams.  Assume 9-game schedules.
OOCs per Team = 2
2 x 8 teams = 16 OOC games

LL:

8 teams (as of next year).  Assume 10-game schedules.
OOCs per Team = 3
3 x 8 teams = 24 OOC games

E8:

8 teams.  Assume 10-game schedules.
OOCs per Team = 3
3 x 8 teams = 24 OOC games

NJAC:

9 teams (as of next year).  One mandated NJAC/MAC game.  Assume 10-game schedules.
OOCs per Team (excluding NJAC/MAC Challenge) = 1
1 x 9 teams = 9 OOC games

MAC:

9 teams.  One mandated NJAC/MAC game.  Assume 10-game schedules.
OOCs per Team (excluding NJAC/MAC Challenge) = 1
1 x 9 teams = 9 OOC games

Let's tally them up:

NEFC + ECFC = 32 + 16 = 48 (assuming 9-game schedules)
LL + E8 + NJAC + MAC = 24 + 24 + 9 + 9 = 66 (assuming 10-game schedules and NJAC/MAC Challenge)

Every game that the LL and E8 schedule against each other accounts for 2 OOCs less.  So, if every Liberty League team scheduled one E8 game, we would be down to 50.  A game like Cortaca similarly reduces it by 2 (48).  The point here is that the complacency that the NEFC has shown in intra-scheduling has really cost the NEFC a chance to make inroads to create any OOC strength.  There are too many rivalries and too many traditional games being played now for the NEFC and ECFC to really allow for much headway in future scheduling in such games.  Look, Salve/Union occurred because WPI's coach didn't want to coach against his former team (making it a nullity in the numbers I showed above).  The best chance NEFC and ECFC teams have of turning the tide is by inquiring NOW about what happens to the E8 when Frostburg and Salisbury likely leave the E8 in 2013.  There's time right now to take the lesson and make something happen.  Will they?  I don't know, but maybe Charles and softbalz need to get on the phone with their NEFC schools and suggest it pronto.  Scheduling happens a couple to a few years in advance, so this is the time to act.

[SJFF82]

Here's the bad news for the NEFC and the ECFC... and this is where it gets complicated...

Let's look at the number of OOC games available in the NEFC and ECFC... and then the number in the E8, LL, NJAC and MAC.

NEFC:

16 teams (each division with 8 teams).  Assume 9-game schedules.
OOCs per Team = 2
2 x 16 teams = 32 OOC games

ECFC:

8 teams.  Assume 9-game schedules.
OOCs per Team = 2
2 x 8 teams = 16 OOC games

LL:

8 teams (as of next year).  Assume 10-game schedules.
OOCs per Team = 3
3 x 8 teams = 24 OOC games

E8:

8 teams.  Assume 10-game schedules.
OOCs per Team = 3
3 x 8 teams = 24 OOC games

NJAC:

9 teams (as of next year).  One mandated NJAC/MAC game.  Assume 10-game schedules.
OOCs per Team (excluding NJAC/MAC Challenge) = 1
1 x 9 teams = 9 OOC games

MAC:

9 teams.  One mandated NJAC/MAC game.  Assume 10-game schedules.
OOCs per Team (excluding NJAC/MAC Challenge) = 1
1 x 9 teams = 9 OOC games

Let's tally them up:

NEFC + ECFC = 32 + 16 = 48 (assuming 9-game schedules)
LL + E8 + NJAC + MAC = 24 + 24 + 9 + 9 = 66 (assuming 10-game schedules and NJAC/MAC Challenge)

Every game that the LL and E8 schedule against each other accounts for 2 OOCs less.  So, if every Liberty League team scheduled one E8 game, we would be down to 50.  A game like Cortaca similarly reduces it by 2 (48).  The point here is that the complacency that the NEFC has shown in intra-scheduling has really cost the NEFC a chance to make inroads to create any OOC strength.  There are too many rivalries and too many traditional games being played now for the NEFC and ECFC to really allow for much headway in future scheduling in such games.  Look, Salve/Union occurred because WPI's coach didn't want to coach against his former team (making it a nullity in the numbers I showed above).  The best chance NEFC and ECFC teams have of turning the tide is by inquiring NOW about what happens to the E8 when Frostburg and Salisbury likely leave the E8 in 2013.  There's time right now to take the lesson and make something happen.  Will they?  I don't know, but maybe Charles and softbalz need to get on the phone with their NEFC schools and suggest it pronto.  Scheduling happens a couple to a few years in advance, so this is the time to act.

Wow Frank....is that a post or an Algebra question on the SAT? If I was an AD and tried to figure that out, I would say screw it, lets just go 8-2 and play in the ECAC

[RedDragonFan]

Here's the bad news for the NEFC and the ECFC... and this is where it gets complicated...

Let's look at the number of OOC games available in the NEFC and ECFC... and then the number in the E8, LL, NJAC and MAC.

NEFC:

16 teams (each division with 8 teams).  Assume 9-game schedules.
OOCs per Team = 2
2 x 16 teams = 32 OOC games

ECFC:

8 teams.  Assume 9-game schedules.
OOCs per Team = 2
2 x 8 teams = 16 OOC games

LL:

8 teams (as of next year).  Assume 10-game schedules.
OOCs per Team = 3
3 x 8 teams = 24 OOC games

E8:

8 teams.  Assume 10-game schedules.
OOCs per Team = 3
3 x 8 teams = 24 OOC games

NJAC:

9 teams (as of next year).  One mandated NJAC/MAC game.  Assume 10-game schedules.
OOCs per Team (excluding NJAC/MAC Challenge) = 1
1 x 9 teams = 9 OOC games

MAC:

9 teams.  One mandated NJAC/MAC game.  Assume 10-game schedules.
OOCs per Team (excluding NJAC/MAC Challenge) = 1
1 x 9 teams = 9 OOC games

Let's tally them up:

NEFC + ECFC = 32 + 16 = 48 (assuming 9-game schedules)
LL + E8 + NJAC + MAC = 24 + 24 + 9 + 9 = 66 (assuming 10-game schedules and NJAC/MAC Challenge)

Every game that the LL and E8 schedule against each other accounts for 2 OOCs less.  So, if every Liberty League team scheduled one E8 game, we would be down to 50.  A game like Cortaca similarly reduces it by 2 (48).  The point here is that the complacency that the NEFC has shown in intra-scheduling has really cost the NEFC a chance to make inroads to create any OOC strength.  There are too many rivalries and too many traditional games being played now for the NEFC and ECFC to really allow for much headway in future scheduling in such games.  Look, Salve/Union occurred because WPI's coach didn't want to coach against his former team (making it a nullity in the numbers I showed above).  The best chance NEFC and ECFC teams have of turning the tide is by inquiring NOW about what happens to the E8 when Frostburg and Salisbury likely leave the E8 in 2013.  There's time right now to take the lesson and make something happen.  Will they?  I don't know, but maybe Charles and softbalz need to get on the phone with their NEFC schools and suggest it pronto.  Scheduling happens a couple to a few years in advance, so this is the time to act.

Wow Frank....is that a post or an Algebra question on the SAT? If I was an AD and tried to figure that out, I would say screw it, lets just go 8-2 and play in the ECAC

Being visual, I commissioned someone to white board out Frank's calculations on OOC games by conference. I think it clears things up. Link below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7ghpbsZ-ho&feature=related

[SJFF82]

....wait, is that Charles calculating his team's SoS?  I think they're in on a re-vote...

[Frank Rossi]

....wait, is that Charles calculating his team's SoS?  I think they're in on a re-vote...

Naw... You actually need variables to make differential equations make any sense...

[pg04]

It actually wouldn't be that bad if he weren't talking so frantically.  I think listening to him gave me a panic attack.