East Region Fan Poll

[AUKaz00]

I don't see why anyone can really put up much of a gripe with knocking SJF down in the polls.  They haven't been impressive at all, they've made plays to win the game when it counts but good teams don't put themselves in that position three weeks in a row. 

Yes I know all 3 teams are undefeated outside of the SJF game but SJF did NOT look good in any of the games to date.

There aren't that many teams that are going to "look good" when they play Thomas More and W&J - those are rock solid programs.

Typically if you're going to have something special happen you have to be able to show you can win late and win ugly. SJF certainly filled their quota for 2012.  Obviously all griping will be put to rest now that the E8 season has begun -- this week, they play yet another undefeated team in 'Wick, then the week after is Salisbury.  Obviously, if Salisbury runs them into the ground like last year - we'll know the ranking was generous.  If however, if Buff State or SJF end up beating Salisbury, by landslide or by the slimmest of margins -- I think the gripes will be justified for the higher rankings.

And we all look forward to Fisher bumbling their way to 4-0 against a mediocre Wick team...

[boobyhasgameyo]

I don't see why anyone can really put up much of a gripe with knocking SJF down in the polls.  They haven't been impressive at all, they've made plays to win the game when it counts but good teams don't put themselves in that position three weeks in a row. 

Yes I know all 3 teams are undefeated outside of the SJF game but SJF did NOT look good in any of the games to date.

There aren't that many teams that are going to "look good" when they play Thomas More and W&J - those are rock solid programs.

Typically if you're going to have something special happen you have to be able to show you can win late and win ugly. SJF certainly filled their quota for 2012.  Obviously all griping will be put to rest now that the E8 season has begun -- this week, they play yet another undefeated team in 'Wick, then the week after is Salisbury.  Obviously, if Salisbury runs them into the ground like last year - we'll know the ranking was generous.  If however, if Buff State or SJF end up beating Salisbury, by landslide or by the slimmest of margins -- I think the gripes will be justified for the higher rankings.

And we all look forward to Fisher bumbling their way to 4-0 against a mediocre Wick team...

And you know Hartwick is mediocre this year how?  Because they got steamrolled by RPI?  No...no that was Alfred.  I would say the jury is still out on this year's version of Hartwick since they have yet to play a traditionally tough opponent but it's clear they know how to take out the lower tier teams pretty handily.  You have no idea how they will perform against the rest of the E8. 

[lewdogg11]

A few interesting matchups this week:

UW-Stevens Point @ UWW - Call me crazy but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see UWW lost again.  Their confidence is rattled and they play a decent team.  I just have a weird feeling...

Hartwick @ Fisher - Is Fisher for real?  Is Hartwick better than we think?  This week might clear some things up here.  I like Fisher in fashion.

Brockport @ Kean - Kean has me confused.  They lost to a potentially really good Albright and lost to a National title candidate.  This could be a tough game.  I don't know, I think maybe Brockport is as real as we think though. 

Alfred @ Buff St. - All things point to a blowout here.  But that whole, 'we just beat the #1 team in the country so this game should be a cake walk' letdown could be in effect.  Never know.  I doubt it though.

Endicott @ Salve - I was excited for this one before Endicott pooped themselves last week.  I'd like to see Salve take it to them and not stop until charles cries.

WPI @ RPI - This should be a blowout on paper.  RPI's performance last week scares me a bit though.  Hopefully they shake it off and still score 56, but give up single digits.

Lycoming @ Albright - This is a big game for my East Rankings because most MAC games have to be based on final results since I don't have much experience with those programs.  I'll take Albright in a close one.

Rochester @ Springfield - I likes Springfield's chances to win the LL preseason, but I think i was way wrong.  Rochester played Fisher pretty tough.  Maybe Rochester will be in the mix?

Union @ St. Lawrence - I'm only listing this here because Union losing this game would be a blackeye to a proud program and to me, would signal the need for change.  I think Union wins by a lot, but if not, trouble could be brewing...

Some of the other games weren't worth mentioning because they should be decided handily. 




Oh yeah, and the NESCAC starts their post-scrimage scrimages this week.  Yawwwwwnnnnn.

[dlippiel]

A few interesting matchups this week:

UW-Stevens Point @ UWW - Call me crazy but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see UWW lost again.  Their confidence is rattled and they play a decent team.  I just have a weird feeling...

Hartwick @ Fisher - Is Fisher for real?  Is Hartwick better than we think?  This week might clear some things up here.  I like Fisher in fashion.

Brockport @ Kean - Kean has me confused.  They lost to a potentially really good Albright and lost to a National title candidate.  This could be a tough game.  I don't know, I think maybe Brockport is as real as we think though. 

Alfred @ Buff St. - All things point to a blowout here.  But that whole, 'we just beat the #1 team in the country so this game should be a cake walk' letdown could be in effect.  Never know.  I doubt it though.

Endicott @ Salve - I was excited for this one before Endicott pooped themselves last week.  I'd like to see Salve take it to them and not stop until charles cries.
WPI @ RPI - This should be a blowout on paper.  RPI's performance last week scares me a bit though.  Hopefully they shake it off and still score 56, but give up single digits.

Lycoming @ Albright - This is a big game for my East Rankings because most MAC games have to be based on final results since I don't have much experience with those programs.  I'll take Albright in a close one.

Rochester @ Springfield - I likes Springfield's chances to win the LL preseason, but I think i was way wrong.  Rochester played Fisher pretty tough.  Maybe Rochester will be in the mix?

Union @ St. Lawrence - I'm only listing this here because Union losing this game would be a blackeye to a proud program and to me, would signal the need for change.  I think Union wins by a lot, but if not, trouble could be brewing...

Some of the other games weren't worth mentioning because they should be decided handily. 




Oh yeah, and the NESCAC starts their post-scrimage scrimages this week.  Yawwwwwnnnnn.

The bolded snetences above may be two of the funniest dlip has read in a long time on here. They are very simple sentences that hold so much meaning. ****in A Lew, always commin through.

[Bombers798891]

And you know Hartwick is mediocre this year how?  Because they got steamrolled by RPI?  No...no that was Alfred.  I would say the jury is still out on this year's version of Hartwick since they have yet to play a traditionally tough opponent but it's clear they know how to take out the lower tier teams pretty handily.  You have no idea how they will perform against the rest of the E8.

I would hardly call a 12-point win at home against Becker while allowing 430 yards and turning the ball over six times an example of winning "handily"

[boobyhasgameyo]

And you know Hartwick is mediocre this year how?  Because they got steamrolled by RPI?  No...no that was Alfred.  I would say the jury is still out on this year's version of Hartwick since they have yet to play a traditionally tough opponent but it's clear they know how to take out the lower tier teams pretty handily.  You have no idea how they will perform against the rest of the E8.

I would hardly call a 12-point win at home against Becker while allowing 430 yards and turning the ball over six times an example of winning "handily"

Conveniently you have ignored their other 2 games this season where they won by an average margin of 35 points.  Also I'd say if you can turn the ball over 6 times and still put up 53 points you are doing something well.  Ultimately you have digressed from the point of my post - please indicate to me how anyone can tell Hartwick is mediocre this year thus far.  They lost to Western New England by 27 points and beat Husson by only 8 points the year they won the E8.  I'd say their accomplishments this year through 3 games are markedly better than the first 3 during their successful run in 2007. 

[Bombers798891]

And you know Hartwick is mediocre this year how?  Because they got steamrolled by RPI?  No...no that was Alfred.  I would say the jury is still out on this year's version of Hartwick since they have yet to play a traditionally tough opponent but it's clear they know how to take out the lower tier teams pretty handily.  You have no idea how they will perform against the rest of the E8.

I would hardly call a 12-point win at home against Becker while allowing 430 yards and turning the ball over six times an example of winning "handily"

Conveniently you have ignored their other 2 games this season where they won by an average margin of 35 points.  Also I'd say if you can turn the ball over 6 times and still put up 53 points you are doing something well.  Ultimately you have digressed from the point of my post - please indicate to me how anyone can tell Hartwick is mediocre this year thus far.  They lost to Western New England by 27 points and beat Husson by only 8 points the year they won the E8. I'd say their accomplishments this year through 3 games are markedly better than the first 3 during their successful run in 2007.

I'd call 2-1 with a win over the 2007 version of Ithaca more impressive than 3-0 with wins over teams that are all doormats. I bet I'm not alone there. That '07 Ithaca team was really good

As far as why I think the Wick are mediocre, the Becker game is why. Becker is, and has been for eight years, a terrible football team. Yes, maybe this is a WNEC in 2007 type of fluke thing, but IMO, a good team would not struggle with a program as perennially awful as Becker, at home no less. A good team wins all three of those games in blowouts.

While we're on the subject of the Wick: seriously guys, grow a set. Schedule someone decent OOC for once.

[Frank Rossi]

Union @ St. Lawrence - I'm only listing this here because Union losing this game would be a blackeye to a proud program and to me, would signal the need for change.  I think Union wins by a lot, but if not, trouble could be brewing...

A change of your underwear, maybe.  Union is not RPI.  We didn't spend $1 billion on a new stadium yet.

[AUPepBand]

Union @ St. Lawrence - I'm only listing this here because Union losing this game would be a blackeye to a proud program and to me, would signal the need for change.  I think Union wins by a lot, but if not, trouble could be brewing...

A change of your underwear, maybe.  Union is not RPI.  We didn't spend $1 billion on a new stadium yet.

Pep enjoyed his Sept. 8 visit to Acronym Stadium. Didn't care for the on-the-field results, but DID enjoy getting acquainted with RPI's good-sized Pep Band. Pep was one of seven from Alfred who made the trip. Five of us drove to Albany Friday evening and stayed with an AU alum who was a four-year veteran of the pep band. Unfortunately, he had to attend a wedding in Syracuse so he was unable to join us at the game. Nevertheless, it was good seeing him again and hope to attend his wedding in October. Two more drove up from Alfred Saterday morning, while two alums (top notch trumpet from Class of 2011 and a stellar trombone from the Class of 2005) drove in from Massachusetts. Everyone was at the impressive stadium (Is it paid for?) about an hour before kickoff.

Pep wandered over to the RPI side, looking around and occasioned to run into the student conductor of RPI's band. We reviewed our game-time schemes and came to an amiable agreement for playing times, etc. The conductor was slightly amused that the AU band had its roots with the kazoo and still carried a kazoo along. Meanwhile, he informed Pep that they had a great turnout among freshmen and boasted having 18 trumpets!!! After the exchange, Pep headed back to the visitors' stands. As Pep came up the steps to where the band was seated, he passed a member of the RPI pep band. Band members then told Pep how the trumpet player (obviously a freshman), donning an RPI pep band shirt, came up and sat with the AU band and started asking questions about what music he'd be playing. Members of the AU band, puzzled by the trumpet player's peculiar query, realized he thought the AU Pep Band was the RPI Pep Band and broke it to him gently that his band was actually seated on the other side of the stadium. (Did he not notice all were wearing white shirts with purple and gold while his shirt was black?)

Both bands got reacquainted after the game as a gatekeeper, obviously eager to "punch out," prematurely locked up the gate that both bands had entered and, coincidentally, both bands waited to exit through. Ten to fifteen minutes later, after watching the RPI band members hand instruments over the fence to be loaded up in their van, someone arrived to unlock the gate and let us go.

It was a quick enough ride home in spite of hitting a severe storm as we got on I-88, with heavy winds followed by a torrential downpour slowing us considerably. The rest of the trip was uneventful, but it's always good to be back in Mayberry.

On Saxon (Road) Warriors!

[Frank Rossi]

Union @ St. Lawrence - I'm only listing this here because Union losing this game would be a blackeye to a proud program and to me, would signal the need for change.  I think Union wins by a lot, but if not, trouble could be brewing...

A change of your underwear, maybe.  Union is not RPI.  We didn't spend $1 billion on a new stadium yet.

Pep enjoyed his Sept. 8 visit to Acronym Stadium. Didn't care for the on-the-field results, but DID enjoy getting acquainted with RPI's good-sized Pep Band. Pep was one of seven from Alfred who made the trip. Five of us drove to Albany Friday evening and stayed with an AU alum who was a four-year veteran of the pep band. Unfortunately, he had to attend a wedding in Syracuse so he was unable to join us at the game. Nevertheless, it was good seeing him again and hope to attend his wedding in October. Two more drove up from Alfred Saterday morning, while two alums (top notch trumpet from Class of 2011 and a stellar trombone from the Class of 2005) drove in from Massachusetts. Everyone was at the impressive stadium (Is it paid for?) about an hour before kickoff.

Pep wandered over to the RPI side, looking around and occasioned to run into the student conductor of RPI's band. We reviewed our game-time schemes and came to an amiable agreement for playing times, etc. The conductor was slightly amused that the AU band had its roots with the kazoo and still carried a kazoo along. Meanwhile, he informed Pep that they had a great turnout among freshmen and boasted having 18 trumpets!!! After the exchange, Pep headed back to the visitors' stands. As Pep came up the steps to where the band was seated, he passed a member of the RPI pep band. Band members then told Pep how the trumpet player (obviously a freshman), donning an RPI pep band shirt, came up and sat with the AU band and started asking questions about what music he'd be playing. Members of the AU band, puzzled by the trumpet player's peculiar query, realized he thought the AU Pep Band was the RPI Pep Band and broke it to him gently that his band was actually seated on the other side of the stadium. (Did he not notice all were wearing white shirts with purple and gold while his shirt was black?)

Both bands got reacquainted after the game as a gatekeeper, obviously eager to "punch out," prematurely locked up the gate that both bands had entered and, coincidentally, both bands waited to exit through. Ten to fifteen minutes later, after watching the RPI band members hand instruments over the fence to be loaded up in their van, someone arrived to unlock the gate and let us go.

It was a quick enough ride home in spite of hitting a severe storm as we got on I-88, with heavy winds followed by a torrential downpour slowing us considerably. The rest of the trip was uneventful, but it's always good to be back in Mayberry.

On Saxon (Road) Warriors!

This story alone has made me reassess the original statement.  ECAV is well worth the $1 billion.  However, LD now needs to change his underwear again.

[lewdogg11]

Union @ St. Lawrence - I'm only listing this here because Union losing this game would be a blackeye to a proud program and to me, would signal the need for change.  I think Union wins by a lot, but if not, trouble could be brewing...

A change of your underwear, maybe.  Union is not RPI.  We didn't spend $1 billion on a new stadium yet.

What does this even mean?  What does a stadium have to do with anything?  I simply mentioned if Union has sunk that low this year, something is wrong.  Trust me, I like to see Union lose as much as the next guy, but the bottom line is, they shouldn't.  Not like they have been anyway.

[ITH radio]

Speaking of Union, a friend of the show recently pointed out that the last 10 seasons have been subpar (6 years of either losing, .500 or just 1 win over .500 seasons) by "Union standards".  The obvious exceptions being '09 and '05 (you could probably lump '06 in there too as most programs would happily take a 7 win season).

What we observed was that it was the OOC scheduling is what's dinged Union the most (winning % of .357 and if you take out 2005 the WP drops to .297).  What Audino and others could point to however is that the Dutchmen have performed fairly well (2010 being the main exception) against their LL slate winning at a .737 rate which may not be like the "old days", but in a league and region with greater parity, .737 is more than good enough (obviously this year's LL slate is still TBD but wanted to include the 2012 OOC for emphasis):

2012 (0-3, 0-3 OOC, 0-0 LL)
2011 (6-4, 1-3 OCC, 5-1 LL)
2010 (2-7, 0-3 OCC, 2-4 LL)
2009 (8-3, 2-2 OOC, 6-1 LL)
2008 (5-4, 1-1 OOC, 4-3 LL)
2007 (5-5, 0-3 OOC, 5-2 LL)
2006 (7-3, 2-2 OOC, 5-1 LL)
2005 (11-1, 4-1 OOC, 7-0 LL)
2004 (6-3, 0-2 OOC, 6-1 LL)
2003 (5-5, 3-3 OOC, 2-2 LL)
2002 (5-5, 2-4 OOC, 3-1 LL)

[lewdogg11]

Speaking of Union, a friend of the show recently pointed out that the last 10 seasons have been subpar (6 years of either losing, .500 or just 1 win over .500 seasons) by "Union standards".  The obvious exceptions being '09 and '05 (you could probably lump '06 in there too as most programs would happily take a 7 win season).

What we observed was that it was the OOC scheduling is what's dinged Union the most (winning % of .357 and if you take out 2005 the WP drops to .297).  What Audino and others could point to however is that the Dutchmen have performed fairly well (2010 being the main exception) against their LL slate winning at a .737 rate which may not be like the "old days", but in a league and region with greater parity, .737 is more than good enough (obviously this year's LL slate is still TBD but wanted to include the 2012 OOC for emphasis):

2012 (0-3, 0-3 OOC, 0-0 LL)
2011 (6-4, 1-3 OCC, 5-1 LL)
2010 (2-7, 0-3 OCC, 2-4 LL)
2009 (8-3, 2-2 OOC, 6-1 LL)
2008 (5-4, 1-1 OOC, 4-3 LL)
2007 (5-5, 0-3 OOC, 5-2 LL)
2006 (7-3, 2-2 OOC, 5-1 LL)
2005 (11-1, 4-1 OOC, 7-0 LL)
2004 (6-3, 0-2 OOC, 6-1 LL)
2003 (5-5, 3-3 OOC, 2-2 LL)
2002 (5-5, 2-4 OOC, 3-1 LL)

This is all true, but you have to also take into account that the LL is not a very highly ranked conference any more, partly due to RPI and Union's decline, but the bottom half of the conference is just plain ECFC(This is a new adjective).

[lewdogg11]

And it's not like Union has a Buff St. or SJF OOC schedule recently.  Salve, Ithaca, and Utica are all teams that aren't world beaters, and Union is 0-6 against them the past 2 years.

I give them credit for a decent OOC schedule, but there are teams here they should beat.  As I mentioned, I like seeing Union lose, but for the pride of the LL, it's tough losing to an NEFC team, a sub-par Ithaca team, and a Utica team that has won 10 conference games since 2001.

[Frank Rossi]

And it's not like Union has a Buff St. or SJF OOC schedule recently.  Salve, Ithaca, and Utica are all teams that aren't world beaters, and Union is 0-6 against them the past 2 years.

I give them credit for a decent OOC schedule, but there are teams here they should beat.  As I mentioned, I like seeing Union lose, but for the pride of the LL, it's tough losing to an NEFC team, a sub-par Ithaca team, and a Utica team that has won 10 conference games since 2001.

First off, Salve isn't exactly your run-of-the-mill NEFC team based on their own scheduling and OOC views.  You can't play that both ways, Lew, as I've seen you make the counter-argument in the PPs over the last couple seasons.

Second, you're sort of helping prove my statement from before this weekend's "Around the League" in which I called some of the comments ignorant coming from Union (forgive me) haters who tend to look at final scores and nothing else.  As Bombers will admit, the offenses last weekend were like night and day in terms of experience and maturity.  Union is starting a sophomore quarterback (no collegiate experience), all sophomore and freshmen receivers (the top two coming into the season are injured, with Bennett done for the year), running backs with some experience (senior fullback, with a sophomore and junior tailback sharing time), a senior tight end (with a junior in a two tight-end set) and an O-Line that had 4 returning starters with two of them already injured (including the center).  The story goes like this:  D3 teams with high academic standards and that play by admissions policies and financial aid rules to the letter of the law don't have the ability to gain the depth that teams had 10, 15 or 20 years ago.  It used to be the case that you could lose a player to injury and not worry about who the backup was at Union -- they were just as adept.  That's not the case anymore, as Dlip pointed out in a prior post in the LLPP. 

With the inexperience at offense, we look at the defense.  With the exception of the Utica game (which, again, I don't care what you say -- as it just spews some ignorance -- Utica is not the same team RPI used to swab the decks with back in the mid-late 2000s... Ask Hobart, who watched Utica come within 4 and 5 points after trailing by 17 early in the second half before finally putting the game away), Union's defense pitched shutouts in the first three quarters of Games 1 and 3 (the offense gave up pic and fumble 6's in those games in the first half).  The defense couldn't hold in the 4th quarter of the Salve game, partially because of the size disparity at the line finally creating fatigue mismatches (Salve has 310/310/295 on the line).  At Ithaca, it was a punt snap problem mismanaged by a freshman kicker that led to 1st and goal from the 4 with about 1:30 left.  The defense held twice in the game from inside the 10, including once at the 1.  Once Ithaca scored the two TDs in 70 seconds, Union was toast -- it's an offense that never saw it coming and deflated immediately.  Note, though, that the Ithaca offense is Junior- and Senior-laden, especially at specialist positions -- and Union's defense, which is the stronger side of the ball by most estimates, dominated or bent and didn't break for most of the game.

The point is, you're assessing by final scores and not looking at the internals -- and in this age of automatic bids, OOC games, except for a select few conferences that have the capabilities to get Pool C bids more often than not, are more for experience building than for W's.  Why else would Buffalo State choose to add UW-W?  Did Boyes REALLY expect a win?  Probably not.  Did the game help them in hopes of stacking the W-L deck for recruiting purposes?  Not on paper.  Did it give him the ability to show his team what the best played like so that they might strive to become the best themselves?  Absolutely -- he admitted as much on ITH Sunday.  Would we prefer wins in OOC games?  Sure, Lew.  However, suggesting that jobs should be cost based on some risky OOC scheduling and ignoring the growth being seen on the team is a fool's game. 

I think we all know that I don't agree with how the Coach King situation was handled at RPI because it was a competing set of philosophies that didn't reflect a respect for someone who really was the man who developed the program into what it stands for even today.  You have to watch what you wish for, though -- too many people were acting like his time to leave had come, and you ended up with a sideshow of sideshows.  If not for Mike Hermann maturing, I don't know what RPI's record would look like, but I have 7 touchdowns on my stat sheet last weekend that I can't really easily just hand to other players on that roster based on any kind of experience or proof that they would've stepped up to score those same scores if Hermann wasn't there.  Unlike you, I guess, I actually root for RPI generally until Shoes Week, especially under current circumstances that were created somewhat by odd policies internally at the school and by alumni that didn't stand by their man when it mattered most.  The people that it cost most were the players, especially the current seniors.  So, yes, I root for them to succeed in spite of the issues encountered -- I've told them and Coach Bodor as much publicly.  To hear from you some level of cheering for a change at Union, knowing you weren't exactly standing by your man at RPI during those times a few seasons ago, makes me think that you don't really appreciate what's happened in your own backyard.  Using your dipstick, I guess it's time St. John's fires John Gagliardi because, hey, that team isn't meeting its own standards... CREATED BY the current coach in the first place.