East Region Fan Poll

[ExTartanPlayer]

Let us consider two teams X and Y.  They have played the same opponents and X is 9-0 and Y is 7-2.  They play each other in the last game of the regular season.  Y beats X big time,  28-0.  So X is 9-1 and Y is 8-2.  So X with the better record gets the only bid available because they have a better record, but is the BEST team getting the bid?  I guess that sums up what I was wondering.

As Gallagher(sp?) the missing comedian used to say " I gots my questions. 

Here's the problem with that.  All of the games have to count the same.  OK, so Y beat X big time.  There are two other results from the season which contradict that since X has beaten two teams that beat Y - so where are those teams in this hypothetical?  Since Team X beat them, and they presumably played each other and another good team or two, let's pretend they're 7-3 or thereabouts.  Then you are giving Team Y a free pass for losing to those two teams that were "worse" than the ONE team that beat Team X.  Maybe Y is playing better than X right now, but that logic carried to its extreme says that we essentially ignore Week 1-2-3 games and just pick the playoff teams based on who played best for the last few weeks.  Just can't do it.  Every game has to count the same.

Here's a pretty good example from just last year.  Wabash and Wittenberg, in most seasons, are the two best teams in the NCAC.  Last year Wabash beat Wittenberg 27-24; that was Wittenberg's only loss (admittedly this occurred in the middle of the season and is not as lopsided as the loss that you have described, but bear with me, my answer would be the same if that was 28-0 and in Week 11).  However, Wabash lost to 5-5 Allegheny and 4-6 Oberlin, both teams that Wittenberg beat in conference play, and finished 8-2.  There's no possible sequence of those games, in my mind, that would convince me that 8-2 Wabash was more deserving than 9-1 Wittenberg of the bid.  Even if Allegheny and Oberlin happened in week 3 + 4 and Wittenberg happened in week 11.  Just can't convince me that a head-to-head defeat should overcome not one but TWO other results against common opponents, regardless of sequence, otherwise you're tacitly allowing teams to mess around in those first couple of games and maybe not show their full hand because they figure they'll get a pass for a loss if they beat their conference's best team in Week 10 or 11.

I am okay with using H2H to break a tie between two teams with the SAME record, or the same conference record.  If two teams finish 9-1 and X beats Y, then X should be ahead of Y in the pecking order (unless it's a three way tie at 9-1 between three teams that have all beaten each other, like what might happen in the CCIW or OAC in the next few weeks if there's an upset).  But that should not be enough to overcome two losses.

+K for the Gallagher reference.  SLEDGE O MATIC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gasAFyonmmI

[AUKaz00]

Week 10 Fan Poll 

Team	Record	Points	Last Rating	Next Week
1   Hobart( 5 )	8-0	50	1	at Rochester
2   Ithaca	8-1	45	2	vs. Cortland State
3   Lebanon Valley	8-1	39	3	at Albright
4   Alfred	7-2	34	4	at # 5 St. John Fisher
5   St. John Fisher	7-2	31	6	vs. #4 Alfred
6   Rowan	7-2	24	7	vs. New Jersey
7   Salisbury	5-4	14	5	vs. Frostburg State
8   Widener	6-3	13	10	at #9t Delaware Valley
9t  Delaware Valley	6-3	8	8t	vs. #8 Widener
9t  Lycoming	6-3	8	8t	at Stevenson

Dropped Out:


Also Receiving votes:               
Brockport State 6
St. Lawrence 2
Albright 1
Framingham 1

            
Voting Distribution:         

Hobart (1,1,1,1,1)
Ithaca (2,2,2,2,2)
Lebanon Valley (4,3,3,3,3)
Alfred (5,4,4,4,4)
St. John Fisher (3,5,6,5,5)
Rowan (7,7,5,6,6)
Salisbury (6,6,10,8,NR)
Widener (NR,9,8,7,7)
Delaware Valley (9,NR,7,NR,9)
Lycoming (8,NR,9,NR,8)
Brockport State (NR,8,NR,9,10)
St. Lawrence (NR,10,NR,10,NR)
Albright (10,NR,NR,NR,NR)
Framingham State (NR,10,NR,NR,NR)


Key Matchups:
#4 Alfred at #5 St. John Fisher
#9t Delaware Valley at #8 Widener

[AUPepBand]

Week 10 Fan Poll 

Team	Record	Points	Last Rating	Next Week
1   Hobart( 5 )	8-0	50	1	at Rochester
2   Ithaca	8-1	45	2	vs. Cortland State
3   Lebanon Valley	8-1	39	3	at Albright
4   Alfred	7-2	34	4	at # 5 St. John Fisher
5   St. John Fisher	7-2	31	6	vs. #4 Alfred
6   Rowan	7-2	24	7	vs. New Jersey
7   Salisbury	5-4	14	5	vs. Frostburg State
8   Widener	6-3	13	10	at #9t Delaware Valley
9t  Delaware Valley	6-3	8	8t	vs. #8 Widener
9t  Lycoming	6-3	8	8t	at Stevenson

Dropped Out:


Also Receiving votes:               
Brockport State 6
St. Lawrence 2
Albright 1
Framingham 1

            
Voting Distribution:         

Hobart (1,1,1,1,1)
Ithaca (2,2,2,2,2)
Lebanon Valley (4,3,3,3,3)
Alfred (5,4,4,4,4)
St. John Fisher (3,5,6,5,5)
Rowan (7,7,5,6,6)
Salisbury (6,6,10,8,NR)
Widener (NR,9,8,7,7)
Delaware Valley (9,NR,7,NR,9)
Lycoming (8,NR,9,NR,8)
Brockport State (NR,8,NR,9,10)
St. Lawrence (NR,10,NR,10,NR)
Albright (10,NR,NR,NR,NR)
Framingham State (NR,10,NR,NR,NR)


Key Matchups:
#4 Alfred at #5 St. John Fisher
#9t Delaware Valley at #8 Widener

Pep finds it interesting that the East Region Fans have Alfred (7-2) ahead of both Fisher (7-2) (barely) and Rowan (7-2) while Framingham (8-1) had just one 10th place vote and Gallaudet (9-0) isn't even mentioned.

Whereas, in the D3Football.com Top 25 poll, while pollsters have the top three Eastern teams listed the same as here #7 Hobart (8-0), #20 Ithaca (8-1) and #22 Lebanon Valley (8-1); after that, the only other Eastern teams garnering votes are Framingham (17 points), Fisher (8 points), Rowan (6 points), Middlebury (1 point) and Gallaudet (9-0) (1 point).

What's it all about, Alfie? Pep is thinking there aren't likely any pollsters from out here near Klipnocky on the D3football.com team of 25 coaches, SIDs and media members. Heck, it's a rare occurrence to see an Alfred score in the Rochester paper. You can bet there's a pollster from a New England metropolis "ramming" Framingham into the points total. But no worries. Pep always says a team is only as good as its next game...and that certainly showed in that Franklin loss to Bluffton. What was that about?

On Saxon Warriors!

[boobyhasgameyo]

Week 10 Fan Poll 

Team	Record	Points	Last Rating	Next Week
1   Hobart( 5 )	8-0	50	1	at Rochester
2   Ithaca	8-1	45	2	vs. Cortland State
3   Lebanon Valley	8-1	39	3	at Albright
4   Alfred	7-2	34	4	at # 5 St. John Fisher
5   St. John Fisher	7-2	31	6	vs. #4 Alfred
6   Rowan	7-2	24	7	vs. New Jersey
7   Salisbury	5-4	14	5	vs. Frostburg State
8   Widener	6-3	13	10	at #9t Delaware Valley
9t  Delaware Valley	6-3	8	8t	vs. #8 Widener
9t  Lycoming	6-3	8	8t	at Stevenson

Dropped Out:


Also Receiving votes:               
Brockport State 6
St. Lawrence 2
Albright 1
Framingham 1

            
Voting Distribution:         

Hobart (1,1,1,1,1)
Ithaca (2,2,2,2,2)
Lebanon Valley (4,3,3,3,3)
Alfred (5,4,4,4,4)
St. John Fisher (3,5,6,5,5)
Rowan (7,7,5,6,6)
Salisbury (6,6,10,8,NR)
Widener (NR,9,8,7,7)
Delaware Valley (9,NR,7,NR,9)
Lycoming (8,NR,9,NR,8)
Brockport State (NR,8,NR,9,10)
St. Lawrence (NR,10,NR,10,NR)
Albright (10,NR,NR,NR,NR)
Framingham State (NR,10,NR,NR,NR)


Key Matchups:
#4 Alfred at #5 St. John Fisher
#9t Delaware Valley at #8 Widener

Pep finds it interesting that the East Region Fans have Alfred (7-2) ahead of both Fisher (7-2) (barely) and Rowan (7-2) while Framingham (8-1) had just one 10th place vote and Gallaudet (9-0) isn't even mentioned.

Whereas, in the D3Football.com Top 25 poll, while pollsters have the top three Eastern teams listed the same as here #7 Hobart (8-0), #20 Ithaca (8-1) and #22 Lebanon Valley (8-1); after that, the only other Eastern teams garnering votes are Framingham (17 points), Fisher (8 points), Rowan (6 points), Middlebury (1 point) and Gallaudet (9-0) (1 point).

What's it all about, Alfie? Pep is thinking there aren't likely any pollsters from out here near Klipnocky on the D3football.com team of 25 coaches, SIDs and media members. Heck, it's a rare occurrence to see an Alfred score in the Rochester paper. You can bet there's a pollster from a New England metropolis "ramming" Framingham into the points total. But no worries. Pep always says a team is only as good as its next game...and that certainly showed in that Franklin loss to Bluffton. What was that about?

On Saxon Warriors!

Your post took an unexpected detour there at the end, but it made me laugh.  I was wondering the same thing myself.  I guess they can no longer say Franklin has only lost to superior level talent. 

[AUPepBand]

So booby, are you going to the Courage Bowl? What Fisher posters will be at Growney on saterday?

[boobyhasgameyo]

I'm going to try!  I'm away on business this week and I don't know if I'll make it back in time.  I was hoping it would be a night game with it being the courage bowl and all.  No such luck. 

[Upstate]

I'll be there...

The wife and I take our 4 kids to the game every year but I don't think they're going this year because of the weather...

I haven't attended an AU game in a while, last two I went to was the 2004 30-10 season finale as Noah caught 3 TDs and Brady ran back a pick 6...

The other was Keely's 2nd trip back to Growney...

[AUKaz00]

Kaz00 will be on the bus with Pep and a handful of other musicians.  How's the visitor section at Growney these days?  Will the band be setting up shop on the home side again (which I won't complain about since that's where we sat when Rockwood sent Alfred home winners 4 years ago)?

[ExTartanPlayer]

LOL at the way the RR's get adjusted from week 1 to week 2.  This week's iteration:

EAST            
1   Hobart   8-0   8-0   
2   Ithaca   8-1   8-1   
3   Lebanon Valley   8-1   8-1   
4   Rowan   7-2   7-2   
5   Gallaudet   8-0   9-0   
6   Framingham State   8-1   8-1   
7   Alfred   7-2   7-2   
7   St. John Fisher   7-2   7-2   
9   Salve Regina   7-1   7-2   
10   Brockport   6-3   6-3   

Highlights:

1) Lebanon Valley gets moved ahead of Rowan...where they should have been all along, like I said last week.

2) Rowan is still too high.  Alfred and SJF probably both deserve to be ahead of Rowan.

3) Gallaudet inexplicably drops two spots.  Now, don't mistake my statement here as arguing that Gallaudet DESERVED that initial #3 ranking (or even the #5 ranking that they have now), but more of a "Wait, why rank them third last week and then fifth this week?" question.  It's just funny to me that they were #3 last week and then dropped two spots this week without LVC or Rowan notching a season-changing kind of win that screams "MOVE US UP IN THE RANKINGS!" in the past week.  If your argument is that Gallaudet's win this week was not impressive enough, that was even MORE true last week (when they needed the blocked FG to beat Becker) than this week.  This is just kind of amusing to me.

[AUKaz00]

It's interesting how similar Alfred and Fisher's resumes look, which I guess explains the tie at 7th.  7-2 records, 1-1 against RRO, and top quartile SoS.  Now, does the loser drop out of the secret ballot and refrain from giving the winner a 2-1 vs. RRO?  And does any of this even matter with so many 1-loss teams nationally?

[lewdogg11]

LOL at the way the RR's get adjusted from week 1 to week 2.  This week's iteration:

EAST            
1   Hobart   8-0   8-0   
2   Ithaca   8-1   8-1   
3   Lebanon Valley   8-1   8-1   
4   Rowan   7-2   7-2   
5   Gallaudet   8-0   9-0   
6   Framingham State   8-1   8-1   
7   Alfred   7-2   7-2   
7   St. John Fisher   7-2   7-2   
9   Salve Regina   7-1   7-2   
10   Brockport   6-3   6-3   

Highlights:

1) Lebanon Valley gets moved ahead of Rowan...where they should have been all along, like I said last week.

2) Rowan is still too high.  Alfred and SJF probably both deserve to be ahead of Rowan.

3) Gallaudet inexplicably drops two spots.  Now, don't mistake my statement here as arguing that Gallaudet DESERVED that initial #3 ranking (or even the #5 ranking that they have now), but more of a "Wait, why rank them third last week and then fifth this week?" question.  It's just funny to me that they were #3 last week and then dropped two spots this week without LVC or Rowan notching a season-changing kind of win that screams "MOVE US UP IN THE RANKINGS!" in the past week.  If your argument is that Gallaudet's win this week was not impressive enough, that was even MORE true last week (when they needed the blocked FG to beat Becker) than this week.  This is just kind of amusing to me.

I gotta agree with you on this on.  We all agreed that last weeks ranking were ridiculous, but to inexplicably drop a team 2 places for no apparent region just shows more of how clueless the people are who are putting these ranks together in the first place.  And while Framingham had one of their more impressive wins last weekend(which isn't saying much), they sat still at 6.  Does anyone else feel like Framingham would beat Gallaudet by 4+ touchdowns? 

[jknezek]

We all agreed that last weeks ranking were ridiculous, but to inexplicably drop a team 2 places for no apparent region just shows more of how clueless the people are who are putting these ranks together in the first place. 

Would you rather they not have corrected it and just kept on being mullishly wrong? Seems like you've made a darned if you do/darned if you don't objection here. Had they kept putting the Bison that high, you would have complained about it. But since they moved them down, more in line with your thinking, you killed them for doing that as well. Geez, at least they are trying...

[lewdogg11]

We all agreed that last weeks ranking were ridiculous, but to inexplicably drop a team 2 places for no apparent region just shows more of how clueless the people are who are putting these ranks together in the first place. 

Would you rather they not have corrected it and just kept on being mullishly wrong? Seems like you've made a darned if you do/darned if you don't objection here. Had they kept putting the Bison that high, you would have complained about it. But since they moved them down, more in line with your thinking, you killed them for doing that as well. Geez, at least they are trying...

Let's get something straight, Gallaudet at 5 is NOT in line with my thinking.

[jknezek]

We all agreed that last weeks ranking were ridiculous, but to inexplicably drop a team 2 places for no apparent region just shows more of how clueless the people are who are putting these ranks together in the first place. 

Would you rather they not have corrected it and just kept on being mullishly wrong? Seems like you've made a darned if you do/darned if you don't objection here. Had they kept putting the Bison that high, you would have complained about it. But since they moved them down, more in line with your thinking, you killed them for doing that as well. Geez, at least they are trying...

Let's get something straight, Gallaudet at 5 is NOT in line with my thinking.

I did say "more in line". The rankings only go to 10... But you have to admit, moving from 3 to 5 is "more in line" with having them unranked than they were last week.

[Bombers798891]

LOL at the way the RR's get adjusted from week 1 to week 2.  This week's iteration:

EAST            
1   Hobart   8-0   8-0   
2   Ithaca   8-1   8-1   
3   Lebanon Valley   8-1   8-1   
4   Rowan   7-2   7-2   
5   Gallaudet   8-0   9-0   
6   Framingham State   8-1   8-1   
7   Alfred   7-2   7-2   
7   St. John Fisher   7-2   7-2   
9   Salve Regina   7-1   7-2   
10   Brockport   6-3   6-3   

2) Rowan is still too high.  Alfred and SJF probably both deserve to be ahead of Rowan.

I don't get this Alfred thing. Rowan has a 3-0 record against regionally-ranked opponents (Brockport, Wesley, and Framingham). Alfred is 1-1 (Win over Brockport, loss to Ithaca). So not only is Rowan better there, Alfred's best win is shared by Rowan. As usual, the Saxons played a weak OOC slate, and they couldn't run it. They've had six home games to three road games to this point. They lost to the best team they've played in their conference (Ithaca), and haven't played the next best yet.

I'm not impressed by a team going 7-2 against a home-heavy schedule filled with mostly lightweights, especially considering their toughest game was a double-digit loss. What, if anything, does Alfred have over Rowan? A more impressive win over 3-6 Montclair?