East Region Fan Poll

[Ice Bear]

Didnt this entire discussion begin with our questioning the legitimacy of West Conn and MIT getting a 10 spot in the ERFP? Well we know MIT isn't worthy, after the loss to WPI and this weekend will tell us a tad more about West Conn, Mach will be doing play by play. So really your left with three, possibly after this weekend two teams from NE that could be ER top ten worthy. Endicott, who has a win over a young but feisty Hobart team, West Conn, who has an impressive win over absolutely nobody BUT has a 0 in the loss column, and Framingham, who got mauled by Cortland but messed up Endicott who beat Hobart. So if dlip is correct, and if not please correct him, right now, the best OOC W a NE team has is against the third place LL team who may be 500 in the league after this weekend.

Ok, dlip just wants to be clear about the facts when he only really will consider West Conn as a top ten team IF they defeat Framingham and will consider Framingham IF they beat West Conn even with the shellacking they took from Cortland. Also Endicott could be considered but they lost to Framingham.

Ok, ****'s cool...

[MRMIKESMITH]

Didnt this entire discussion begin with our questioning the legitimacy of West Conn and MIT getting a 10 spot in the ERFP? Well we know MIT isn't worthy, after the loss to WPI and this weekend will tell us a tad more about West Conn, Mach will be doing play by play. So really your left with three, possibly after this weekend two teams from NE that could be ER top ten worthy. Endicott, who has a win over a young but feisty Hobart team, West Conn, who has an impressive win over absolutely nobody BUT has a 0 in the loss column, and Framingham, who got mauled by Cortland but messed up Endicott who beat Hobart. So if dlip is correct, and if not please correct him, right now, the best OOC W a NE team has is against the third place LL team who may be 500 in the league after this weekend.

Ok, dlip just wants to be clear about the facts when he only really will consider West Conn as a top ten team IF they defeat Framingham and will consider Framingham IF they beat West Conn even with the shellacking they took from Cortland. Also Endicott could be considered but they lost to Framingham.

Ok, ****'s cool...

I actually watched that Cortland vs. Framingham State game and I would say that Cortland completely dominated the 2nd half. The game initially looked to be a barn burner, except it ended with Cortland just doing the burning by lighting up the scoreboard. It is going to be interesting to see their game against West Conn. I won't be watching, will be a our game against the team up Route 13.

[Oline89]

This Bombers/DB battle is a little off kilter. It all depends who we're talking about from New England here. Who in New England do I think can give a good game in the playoffs this year?

-Framingham St.
-Endicott

Who will get blown out if they make it?

-Western CT
-MIT
-Western NE
-MMA
-Springfield
-Husson
-Suny-Maritime
-Galaudet

Some teams have had the taste, more than once, of competing and sometimes being successful against good competition. Others either aren't there yet, or have no idea what they are in for. Others are just not that good but find themselves in conferences where it's harder to not be successful than it is to lose. Is it possible for the bottom list to make a game competitive in the postseason? Sure, I guess it could happen. But I don't anticipate it and I wouldn't put my money on it.

Mach,
Just to BS a little.  Let's start with just the East.  If you were to design an 8 team bracket, entering the "best teams".  Which conferences would you remove from automatic bid (pool A) and place in the Pool C.  It seems this scheme would get rid of automatic bids to lesser conferences, but if a team really did shine (wins their conference, plus has nice win/good loss in OOC) they have a chance to compete in NCAA.  Winning the conference is still a great acheivement, but getting your teeth kicked in the next week by Mt Union/Brock/UWW ain't much fun .

Tough question because CCC and MASCAC have a lot of former NEFC teams, all which I think have paid their dues, but that doesn't mean they deserve anything. NEWMAC is a lot of E8/LL defectors or Independents. ECFC should NOT get an AQ for sure. CCC would be next out based on how I think they would fare. NEWMAC has some historically strong programs there that just aren't that good anymore. I'd rank them like this:

1. NEWMAC
2. MASCAC (mostly because of Framingham and Bridgewater's relatively recent history and proof of competitive competence - NOT because of WConn)
3. CCC
4. ECFC

I pretty sure you know this, but taking away a bid from an eligible conference wouldn't guarantee another at-large bid to another ER team.

That wasn't the question though. :-)

An ulterior motive for bringing up this subject is that on other boards/podcasts, there are concerns about the limited number of Pool C bids.  One solution was to limit Pool A bids to conferences with 8 or more teams.   In the East, that would eliminate the E8 and LL, two  of the stronger conferences in the East....

[Pat Coleman]

Or it would encourage them to consolidate for football.

[MRMIKESMITH]

This Bombers/DB battle is a little off kilter. It all depends who we're talking about from New England here. Who in New England do I think can give a good game in the playoffs this year?

-Framingham St.
-Endicott

Who will get blown out if they make it?

-Western CT
-MIT
-Western NE
-MMA
-Springfield
-Husson
-Suny-Maritime
-Galaudet

Some teams have had the taste, more than once, of competing and sometimes being successful against good competition. Others either aren't there yet, or have no idea what they are in for. Others are just not that good but find themselves in conferences where it's harder to not be successful than it is to lose. Is it possible for the bottom list to make a game competitive in the postseason? Sure, I guess it could happen. But I don't anticipate it and I wouldn't put my money on it.

Mach,
Just to BS a little.  Let's start with just the East.  If you were to design an 8 team bracket, entering the "best teams".  Which conferences would you remove from automatic bid (pool A) and place in the Pool C.  It seems this scheme would get rid of automatic bids to lesser conferences, but if a team really did shine (wins their conference, plus has nice win/good loss in OOC) they have a chance to compete in NCAA.  Winning the conference is still a great acheivement, but getting your teeth kicked in the next week by Mt Union/Brock/UWW ain't much fun .

Tough question because CCC and MASCAC have a lot of former NEFC teams, all which I think have paid their dues, but that doesn't mean they deserve anything. NEWMAC is a lot of E8/LL defectors or Independents. ECFC should NOT get an AQ for sure. CCC would be next out based on how I think they would fare. NEWMAC has some historically strong programs there that just aren't that good anymore. I'd rank them like this:

1. NEWMAC
2. MASCAC (mostly because of Framingham and Bridgewater's relatively recent history and proof of competitive competence - NOT because of WConn)
3. CCC
4. ECFC

I pretty sure you know this, but taking away a bid from an eligible conference wouldn't guarantee another at-large bid to another ER team.

That wasn't the question though. :-)

An ulterior motive for bringing up this subject is that on other boards/podcasts, there are concerns about the limited number of Pool C bids.  One solution was to limit Pool A bids to conferences with 8 or more teams.   In the East, that would eliminate the E8 and LL, two  of the stronger conferences in the East....

Another option would to limit Pool A Selections for teams with only .900 Win% and a SOC of .525%, if not that goes in to Pool C and is subject to rules and guidelines.

[gordonmann]

Setting a winning percentage floor would really hurt the quality of non-conference scheduling. You're basically telling teams they better not lose a non-conference game.

[MRMIKESMITH]

Setting a winning percentage floor would really hurt the quality of non-conference scheduling. You're basically telling teams they better not lose a non-conference game because that will render conference play close to meaningless.

True enough. However, doesn't that make winning all your conference games that more important. Also, if you were to slip up and lose a conference game, you are at mercy of that weak OOC schedule and risk not making he playoffs altogether. Granted this would be more beneficial for weaker conferences, however aren't we at the point anyway with many conferences only playing 1 OOC game. Then you have stronger conferences that have teams with two losses actually all being thrown into the Pool C Conversation regardless if you won your conference or not. Also, with the SOS floor that helps as well. If your conference does not perform well in their OOC games, then that hurts your chances.

[gordonmann]

Yeah, I realized it doesn't render conference play meaningless so I amended the statement below. But I think of a team like Del Val who plays Wesley every year or whatever other NJAC team is game to play them.

There's a decent chance they are going to lose that game. So then they have to go undefeated to earn an automatic bid? If they lost a game to a good team in conference and won the bid, they'd have to go into Pool C where they basically have no shot to make the playoffs?

[Bombers798891]

Or it would encourage them to consolidate for football.

Which is what they should be doing, rather than just having members bouncing around in between them, scheduling each other a dozen plus times in the regular season, and having a postseason bowl game (which Ithaca has already declined to play in because of the rematch factor).

Like, I get the idea of "Why get rid of a Pool A if you don't have to for the greater good?" especially considering the fact that East teams have to know their reputation nationally and the associated challenges of getting a Pool C. But they seem to function as one conference half the time anyway

[Pat Coleman]

My long-proposed solution has been to borrow the "earned access" model from Division II, where a conference winner gets in, so long as they are in the top eight of their region's final ranking. However, I'd set the standard a little lower since Division III is much larger, and say perhaps the top 15 is more appropriate. And in addition, I'd ensure that no conference gets its bid clawed back more than two years in a row, so every student-athlete at every Division III football school clearly has an opportunity of some sort in their career.

I'm not sure we'd have reclaimed any bids from last year's playoffs, but years where we have 6-4 Randolph-Macon or 7-3 Benedictine are definite opportunities to pull that back.

[MRMIKESMITH]

Yeah, I realized it doesn't render conference play meaningless so I amended the statement below. But I think of a team like Del Val who plays Wesley every year or whatever other NJAC team is game to play them.

There's a decent chance they are going to lose that game. So then they have to go undefeated to earn an automatic bid? If they lost a game to a good team in conference and won the bid, they'd have to go into Pool C where they basically have no shot to make the playoffs?

However, wouldn't playing a good team like Wesley have them in good position to receive an at-large bid. I think this would prevent some of those "weaker conference champs" that go 9-1, 8-2 from obtaining an automatic qualifier.

[MRMIKESMITH]

My long-proposed solution has been to borrow the "earned access" model from Division II, where a conference winner gets in, so long as they are in the top eight of their region's final ranking. However, I'd set the standard a little lower since Division III is much larger, and say perhaps the top 15 is more appropriate. And in addition, I'd ensure that no conference gets its bid clawed back more than two years in a row, so every student-athlete at every Division III football school clearly has an opportunity of some sort in their career.

I'm not sure we'd have reclaimed any bids from last year's playoffs, but years where we have 6-4 Randolph-Macon or 7-3 Benedictine are definite opportunities to pull that back.

That's my point exactly, this year you have Husson and WNE, they would be in the Pool C Conversation this year.

[Pat Coleman]

WNE wouldn't have its bid pulled under my proposal.

[MRMIKESMITH]

WNE wouldn't have its bid pulled under my proposal.

Yeah, that was my proposal. But I think there are ways to get some quality teams into the playoffs that at a disadvantage of playing in a stronger conference without totally  excluding teams that helm from weaker conferences (cough cough DI FBS).

[UfanBill]

Setting a winning percentage floor would really hurt the quality of non-conference scheduling. You're basically telling teams they better not lose a non-conference game.

It is possible for every team in a league to just be mediocre in any given season. Case in point...2010 Liberty League. St.Lawrence won the automatic qualifier despite being only 5-5. They lost all 4 OOC games. RPI was second best 4-2, 6-4. St. Lawrence was noncompetitive in the tourney against MTU losing 49-0.