East Region Fan Poll

[union89]

Kean didn't really beat Cortland, in other words.  Did Kean really beat Trenton St. TCNJ?

Kean did beat Cortland, but they beat Cortland without their best ****in player. That means something and should be accounted for regarding a teams actual strength vs their strength without their star player. Maybe dlip took it into consideration too much, point taken, but it deserved consideration none the less. And if one feels a team is at the same strength when they are playing without their star player than they are not dipping both ****in oars into the water when trying to paddle up stream. Hence if one were to say Rochester is clearly a better overall team than RPI without Herman, dlip would agree because that was taken care of on the field. Yet, if you came to dlip and said Rochester would have still won even if RPI had Herman, one could disagree, because they haven't beaten RPI when Herman (a 3 time LL rookie of the week) was playing. So dlip feels injuries and missing players must be accounted for, especially when those players are returning to the line-up that same year.

Not sure I agree with the arguement that head to head match ups only matters if you beat someone with all of the players.  A win is a win...everyone goes through injuries.  As bad as Wick's defense was last year in the Brockport game...Wick doesn't get a pass simply because Tomaino and the starting ILB and FS were all out by the second series of the first quarter.

If I came on here and argued that it didn't really matter because we put up 68 points...and that the 70 points shouldn't count as we had "guys out", I would get destroyed...and rightfully so.  I believe we would have won the game going away if everyone was healthy and playing all 4 quarters...and that we would have given up far fewer points as we obviously weren't that deep.  But the problem is they weren't in the game...and we gave up 70. Injuries are part of the game...and head to head match ups should count above and beyond everything else.

Again, it is not that the W does not ****in count, dlip does not recall KS, dlip, or anyone else saying that. When you are ranking teams you are reviewing SOS, W's and L's,  as well as any other factors that have to do with a teams performance, and/or lack there of. All dlip is saying (maybe KS too, dlip does not want to speak for him) is that if a key player, or players miss a game you MUST take that into account not only regarding that teams performance but also in weighing the W by the oppoisng team. dlip is baffled that this seems to be a hard ****ing concept for others to understand. If you simply rank teams by W's and L's and nothing else you are missing the bus. **** an NEFC team may be in the top five then of national polls.

KS agrees with Dlipp regarding a key player missing a game.  Yes head to head matters but is not the only criteria, if it was the poll would change completely almost every week and we would basically be using the Poll that Pep linked to.  KS also did not hit Rowan as hard for their loss to Cortland because Rowans starting QB was out that game.  With him KS thinks Rowan may be the best team in the NJAC.  Also KS did not have Kean in his top ten last week and Cortland was still high in the rankings, I am not going to drop a team down far enough to put a previously unranked team ahead based on a head to head victory two or three weeks before.  Kean got in because of the way they shut down the TCNJ offense last week, they were KS number 13 team previously.  This is the same reason Albright did not leap way up in the rankings.

Finally, plenty of people criticizing, but how many are taking the time to do a poll weekly?  KS wl always come on and defend his rankings and say where KS ranked teams.  This weeks poll shows KS picks in the second column.

I think the key though is the teams records.  In this case...the Kean/Cortland State arguement...if both teams have the same record, I don't know how you could with the team that lost the H2H match up.  If Cortland was say...6-1, and Kean was 3-3, then of course you would go with CS.  But to simply say they had a player out doesn't make sense...especially when you argue that Kean wasn't ranked high in "previous" polls...who cares...we are only in Week #4.

A: KS cares and it is week 5 plus a preseason so this is my sixth poll and previous rankings matter. 
B: If only records mattered I would have Framingham St and other NEFC teams at the top of my poll.
C: You don't throw out everything based on one game, this a cumulative process and Kean has to earn a higher spot.  My top 5 teams have been fairly consistant with their performances and that is why they are the top 5.  Kean is moving up, but has to prove more to KS. 
D: KS has previously stated that he is tougher when ranking the NJ teams to avoid any bias.  They are held to a higher standard because KS is more familiar with them and probably reads more about them than other teams.
E: As KS father used to say, Don't like it, too damn bad.

KS, no one is coming after you....you are being waaaaaay too sensitive here.  My problem was with the way the final pollster voted.

[dlippiel]

dlip thinks this is a very cool ****in discussion and still agrees with KS but from other posts sees both sides. dlip just feels a pollster must take into account as much information that is relavant to each teams W's and L's as possible. Seeing here that some of us come up with our polls using lots of criteria and looking deep into everything that is happening makes dlip feel very proud to be a part of this poll with everyone here. dlip honestly uses this poll as THE East region poll even ingnoring d3's rankings some times because he feels here we have so many knowledgeable passionate people working really hard to produce the most accurate reflection fo our region. ****, great discussion here

[union89]

dlip thinks this is a very cool ****in discussion and still agrees with KS but from other posts sees both sides. dlip just feels a pollster must take into account as much information that is relavant to each teams W's and L's as possible. Seeing here that some of us come up with our polls using lots of criteria and looking deep into everything that is happening makes dlip feel very proud to be a part of this poll with everyone here. dlip honestly uses this poll as THE East region poll even ingnoring d3's rankings some times because he feels here we have so many knowledgeable passionate people working really hard to produce the most accurate reflection fo our region. ****, great discussion here

It lets you know that people are interested and take it relatively seriously.

I think that is a good thing.....all pollsters should continue to do what they think is right in their own minds.  I just don't understand why some get so defensive when someone asks for reasoning.

[lewdogg11]

I won't hide behind my poll..hehe...

1.  Alfred
2.  Albright
3.  Delaware Valley
4.  Kean
5.  Cortland
6.  Rowan
7.  Ithaca
8.  Wilkes
9.  Hartwick
10.  Springfield

I actually have put a lot of thought into it each week and will be happy to defend any rankings.

[PBR...]

I won't hide behind my poll..hehe...

1.  Alfred
2.  Albright
3.  Delaware Valley
4.  Kean
5.  Cortland
6.  Rowan
7.  Ithaca
8.  Wilkes
9.  Hartwick
10.  Springfield

I actually have put a lot of thought into it each week and will be happy to defend any rankings.

why albright ahead of dvc?

[lewdogg11]

I won't hide behind my poll..hehe...

1.  Alfred
2.  Albright
3.  Delaware Valley
4.  Kean
5.  Cortland
6.  Rowan
7.  Ithaca
8.  Wilkes
9.  Hartwick
10.  Springfield

I actually have put a lot of thought into it each week and will be happy to defend any rankings.

why albright ahead of dvc?

I had Albright at 9 last week and Wilkes ranked at 3.  I feel like a blowout win over Wilkes gave them more quality wins than Delaware Valley.

I had Kean at 11 last week, so I think at this point, the Albright win over Wilkes impressed me more than the Del Valley win over Kean.  For crying out loud, they are at 2 and 3.  It's not like I have 1 of them at 10 and the other at 2.  Time will tell with those 2.

[PBR...]

I won't hide behind my poll..hehe...

1.  Alfred
2.  Albright
3.  Delaware Valley
4.  Kean
5.  Cortland
6.  Rowan
7.  Ithaca
8.  Wilkes
9.  Hartwick
10.  Springfield

I actually have put a lot of thought into it each week and will be happy to defend any rankings.

why albright ahead of dvc?

I had Albright at 9 last week and Wilkes ranked at 3.  I feel like a blowout win over Wilkes gave them more quality wins than Delaware Valley.

I had Kean at 11 last week, so I think at this point, the Albright win over Wilkes impressed me more than the Del Valley win over Kean.  For crying out loud, they are at 2 and 3.  It's not like I have 1 of them at 10 and the other at 2.  Time will tell with those 2.

BOL! LD didnt notice the sarcasm in pbr's post...just bustin' your stones...he he he said stones...

[lewdogg11]

I won't hide behind my poll..hehe...

1.  Alfred
2.  Albright
3.  Delaware Valley
4.  Kean
5.  Cortland
6.  Rowan
7.  Ithaca
8.  Wilkes
9.  Hartwick
10.  Springfield

I actually have put a lot of thought into it each week and will be happy to defend any rankings.

why albright ahead of dvc?

I had Albright at 9 last week and Wilkes ranked at 3.  I feel like a blowout win over Wilkes gave them more quality wins than Delaware Valley.

I had Kean at 11 last week, so I think at this point, the Albright win over Wilkes impressed me more than the Del Valley win over Kean.  For crying out loud, they are at 2 and 3.  It's not like I have 1 of them at 10 and the other at 2.  Time will tell with those 2.

BOL! LD didnt notice the sarcasm in pbr's post...just bustin' your stones...he he he said stones...

Well it was a good goddamn answer wasn't it!!

[Knightstalker]

dlip thinks this is a very cool ****in discussion and still agrees with KS but from other posts sees both sides. dlip just feels a pollster must take into account as much information that is relavant to each teams W's and L's as possible. Seeing here that some of us come up with our polls using lots of criteria and looking deep into everything that is happening makes dlip feel very proud to be a part of this poll with everyone here. dlip honestly uses this poll as THE East region poll even ingnoring d3's rankings some times because he feels here we have so many knowledgeable passionate people working really hard to produce the most accurate reflection fo our region. ****, great discussion here

It lets you know that people are interested and take it relatively seriously.

I think that is a good thing.....all pollsters should continue to do what they think is right in their own minds.  I just don't understand why some get so defensive when someone asks for reasoning.

I got defensive when my reasoning was dismissed by some posters.

Here is my top ten.
Week 5
 1 Alfred
 2 Del Val
 3 Cstate
 4 Rowan
 5 Ithaca
 6 RPI
 7 Kean
 8 Albright
 9 Wilkes
10 Union


C State fell from 1 when they lost to Kean but have moved up with other teams losing and they have been winning.  Kean was off my top 15 when they beat C State, they have been moving up.  They still have win a couple of more games against good opponents to get to the top.  Right now I think Alfred and Del Val are the top two, after that it is a crap shoot.

[redswarm81]

Kean didn't really beat Cortland, in other words.  Did Kean really beat Trenton St. TCNJ?

Kean did beat Cortland, but they beat Cortland without their best ****in player. That means something and should be accounted for regarding a teams actual strength vs their strength without their star player. Maybe dlip took it into consideration too much, point taken, but it deserved consideration none the less. And if one feels a team is at the same strength when they are playing without their star player than they are not dipping both ****in oars into the water when trying to paddle up stream. Hence if one were to say Rochester is clearly a better overall team than RPI without Herman, dlip would agree because that was taken care of on the field. Yet, if you came to dlip and said Rochester would have still won even if RPI had Herman, one could disagree, because they haven't beaten RPI when Herman (a 3 time LL rookie of the week) was playing. So dlip feels injuries and missing players must be accounted for, especially when those players are returning to the line-up that same year.

Not sure I agree with the arguement that head to head match ups only matters if you beat someone with all of the players.  A win is a win...everyone goes through injuries.  As bad as Wick's defense was last year in the Brockport game...Wick doesn't get a pass simply because Tomaino and the starting ILB and FS were all out by the second series of the first quarter.

If I came on here and argued that it didn't really matter because we put up 68 points...and that the 70 points shouldn't count as we had "guys out", I would get destroyed...and rightfully so.  I believe we would have won the game going away if everyone was healthy and playing all 4 quarters...and that we would have given up far fewer points as we obviously weren't that deep.  But the problem is they weren't in the game...and we gave up 70. Injuries are part of the game...and head to head match ups should count above and beyond everything else.

Hater.

[union89]

I won't hide behind my poll..hehe...

1.  Alfred
2.  Albright
3.  Delaware Valley
4.  Kean
5.  Cortland
6.  Rowan
7.  Ithaca
8.  Wilkes
9.  Hartwick
10.  Springfield

I actually have put a lot of thought into it each week and will be happy to defend any rankings.

OK, I'll wade into this pizz warm water....looks solid all around except....

You already know where I'm going.....why 4 E8's and zero LL's?  I can understand your poll through the Top 8....I would have Union at 8 or 9, but can understand even Hartwick at 9, BUT how can you put Springfield at 10 over Union or even RPI for that matter? 

[Doid23]

I won't hide behind my poll..hehe...

1.  Alfred
2.  Albright
3.  Delaware Valley
4.  Kean
5.  Cortland
6.  Rowan
7.  Ithaca
8.  Wilkes
9.  Hartwick
10.  Springfield

I actually have put a lot of thought into it each week and will be happy to defend any rankings.

OK, I'll wade into this pizz warm water....looks solid all around except....

You already know where I'm going.....why 4 E8's and zero LL's?  I can understand your poll through the Top 8....I would have Union at 8 or 9, but can understand even Hartwick at 9, BUT how can you put Springfield at 10 over Union or even RPI for that matter? 

You understand Hartwick? Really? They don't have a "good" win, and they lost to a team the Union beat. I guess a "good loss" beats a very good win? Union's loss to the Mules is why they are in the 8,9,10, HM range, but no way should they be behind Hartwick.

[lewdogg11]

I won't hide behind my poll..hehe...

1.  Alfred
2.  Albright
3.  Delaware Valley
4.  Kean
5.  Cortland
6.  Rowan
7.  Ithaca
8.  Wilkes
9.  Hartwick
10.  Springfield

I actually have put a lot of thought into it each week and will be happy to defend any rankings.

OK, I'll wade into this pizz warm water....looks solid all around except....

You already know where I'm going.....why 4 E8's and zero LL's?  I can understand your poll through the Top 8....I would have Union at 8 or 9, but can understand even Hartwick at 9, BUT how can you put Springfield at 10 over Union or even RPI for that matter? 

You understand Hartwick? Really? They don't have a "good" win, and they lost to a team the Union beat. I guess a "good loss" beats a very good win? Union's loss to the Mules is why they are in the 8,9,10, HM range, but no way should they be behind Hartwick.

Bottom line is I didn't count how many teams there were from each conference.  It's not a charity game here to make sure everyone gets a piece of the pie. 

My thoughts are that the Union loss to 1-3 Muhlenburg looks almost as bad as RPI's loss to 1-3 Rochester.  Muhlenburg is usually better, but so far this season, the losses are similar.  Union is knocking on the door, but at this point, Springfield's win over Utica 43-16, makes a bigger statement than their blowout loss to Alfred who I have at 1.  RPI AND Ithaca struggled with Utica and Springfield blew them out. 

YES, Ithaca lost to Union.  I know this, BUT their schedule so far has been a little tougher than Union's overall, and Union limped by Rochester and WPI.  They were wins, but not extremely convincing.  Right now, RPI and Union aren't looking that different except for Union's 1 quality win, 1 horrible loss, and RPI's 0 quality wins, and 1 even more horrible loss. 

At this rate, the LL looks pitiful to me.  I didn't even realize that I didn't have an LL team in there, but right now, who deserves it?  If Union beats Hobart, then they might get a crack, but Hobart seems kinda sucky too.

The LL winner this year could be 6-3 on the season.

[Doid23]

I won't hide behind my poll..hehe...

1.  Alfred
2.  Albright
3.  Delaware Valley
4.  Kean
5.  Cortland
6.  Rowan
7.  Ithaca
8.  Wilkes
9.  Hartwick
10.  Springfield

I actually have put a lot of thought into it each week and will be happy to defend any rankings.

OK, I'll wade into this pizz warm water....looks solid all around except....

You already know where I'm going.....why 4 E8's and zero LL's?  I can understand your poll through the Top 8....I would have Union at 8 or 9, but can understand even Hartwick at 9, BUT how can you put Springfield at 10 over Union or even RPI for that matter? 

You understand Hartwick? Really? They don't have a "good" win, and they lost to a team the Union beat. I guess a "good loss" beats a very good win? Union's loss to the Mules is why they are in the 8,9,10, HM range, but no way should they be behind Hartwick.

Bottom line is I didn't count how many teams there were from each conference.  It's not a charity game here to make sure everyone gets a piece of the pie. 

My thoughts are that the Union loss to 1-3 Muhlenburg looks almost as bad as RPI's loss to 1-3 Rochester.  Muhlenburg is usually better, but so far this season, the losses are similar.  Union is knocking on the door, but at this point, Springfield's win over Utica 43-16, makes a bigger statement than their blowout loss to Alfred who I have at 1.  RPI AND Ithaca struggled with Utica and Springfield blew them out. 

YES, Ithaca lost to Union.  I know this, BUT their schedule so far has been a little tougher than Union's overall, and Union limped by Rochester and WPI.  They were wins, but not extremely convincing.  Right now, RPI and Union aren't looking that different except for Union's 1 quality win, 1 horrible loss, and RPI's 0 quality wins, and 1 even more horrible loss. 

At this rate, the LL looks pitiful to me.  I didn't even realize that I didn't have an LL team in there, but right now, who deserves it?  If Union beats Hobart, then they might get a crack, but Hobart seems kinda sucky too.

The LL winner this year could be 6-3 on the season.

OK, but my point was about Hartwick. When isa good loss and no good wins better than Union beating the team Hartwick lost to?

[lewdogg11]

OK, but my point was about Hartwick. When isa good loss and no good wins better than Union beating the team Hartwick lost to?

Well, we're kind of kicking mud around here.  We're talking about 9 and 10 in Week 5.  As the season goes on,   and more games get played, we'll see where everyone stands.  At this point, that is my Top 10, and i'm sticking to it.  A close Hartwick loss to a 4-1 Ithaca hurts them less than a 10 point loss to a 1-3 Muhlenburg in my eyes.  I am not playing ANY favorites.  It pains me to see Hartwick there especially since i'm a Union fan now.  Just where I thought they stand at this point in the season.