East Region Fan Poll

[pumkinattack]

YES, Ithaca lost to Union.  I know this, BUT their schedule so far has been a little tougher than Union's overall, and Union limped by Rochester and WPI.  They were wins, but not extremely convincing.  Right now, RPI and Union aren't looking that different except for Union's 1 quality win, 1 horrible loss, and RPI's 0 quality wins, and 1 even more horrible loss. 

At this rate, the LL looks pitiful to me.  I didn't even realize that I didn't have an LL team in there, but right now, who deserves it?  If Union beats Hobart, then they might get a crack, but Hobart seems kinda sucky too.

The LL winner this year could be 6-3 on the season.

This sadly is true compared with most of this decade.  My question is this, where does Hobart fit in right now?  The Dickinson loss was atrocious as was SU (the injury to Palazzi in that game could end up helping Hobart later in the season though - like last year the Union loss didn't have an impact on the LL outcome) mainly because of bad playcalling and a QB figuring out how to play on the job.  That being said, CMU is 4-0 outside of the Hobart game, 4-1 overall.  Question is, if they beat Union do they shoot up the ranks into the top 10?

[lewdogg11]

YES, Ithaca lost to Union.  I know this, BUT their schedule so far has been a little tougher than Union's overall, and Union limped by Rochester and WPI.  They were wins, but not extremely convincing.  Right now, RPI and Union aren't looking that different except for Union's 1 quality win, 1 horrible loss, and RPI's 0 quality wins, and 1 even more horrible loss. 

At this rate, the LL looks pitiful to me.  I didn't even realize that I didn't have an LL team in there, but right now, who deserves it?  If Union beats Hobart, then they might get a crack, but Hobart seems kinda sucky too.

The LL winner this year could be 6-3 on the season.

This sadly is true compared with most of this decade.  My question is this, where does Hobart fit in right now?  The Dickinson loss was atrocious as was SU (the injury to Palazzi in that game could end up helping Hobart later in the season though - like last year the Union loss didn't have an impact on the LL outcome) mainly because of bad playcalling and a QB figuring out how to play on the job.  That being said, CMU is 4-0 outside of the Hobart game, 4-1 overall.  Question is, if they beat Union do they shoot up the ranks into the top 10?

Personally for me no.  I just can't justify the Sasquatch loss.  Kinda like i can't justify RPI losing to Rochester.  Both teams would need to win out in my eyes.

[AUKaz00]

East Region Fan Poll - Week 5 (10/5/09)

#	School (1st votes)	Record	Pts	Prev.	This Week
1	Alfred  ( 9 )	4-0	97	1	vs. Hartwick
2	Delaware Valley	3-1	75	6	vs. FDU-Florham
3	Albright  ( 1 )	4-0	71	9	at Lycoming
4	Ithaca	4-1	62	4	vs. St. John Fisher
5	Kean	3-1	53	NR	vs. Buffalo State
6	Cortland State	3-1	52	5	at Montclair State
7	Rowan	3-1	49	7	vs. Western Connecticut
8	Union	3-1	31	NR	vs. Hobart
9	Wilkes	3-1	25	2	vs. Lebanon Valley
10	RPI	3-1	15	3	Open Date

Okay, here's something fun to rethink this week's poll: ranking the teams based on mode rather than mean to see where the most voters think each team should be ranked (ties going to team with higher average of modes).

1. Alfred
2. Albright
3. Del Valley
4. Kean
5. Ithaca
6. Rowan
7. Union
8. Cortland
9. Wilkes
10. RPI

OK, but my point was about Hartwick. When isa good loss and no good wins better than Union beating the team Hartwick lost to?

Well, we're kind of kicking mud around here.  We're talking about 9 and 10 in Week 5.  As the season goes on,   and more games get played, we'll see where everyone stands.  At this point, that is my Top 10, and i'm sticking to it.  A close Hartwick loss to a 4-1 Ithaca hurts them less than a 10 point loss to a 1-3 Muhlenburg in my eyes.  I am not playing ANY favorites.  It pains me to see Hartwick there especially since i'm a Union fan now.  Just where I thought they stand at this point in the season.

As an Alfred fan, I can't believe how apprehensive I am toward this Saterday's game with Hartwick.  After Boltus and Phelan graduated I had the game pencilled in as a W, but with how well Hartwick seems to move the ball through the air and how inexperienced the Alfred secondary is I think this is going to be a 49-45 type game.  Just hoping that the Saxons can survive like the Bombers did last weekend.

[SJFF82]

dlip thinks this is a very cool ****in discussion and still agrees with KS but from other posts sees both sides. dlip just feels a pollster must take into account as much information that is relavant to each teams W's and L's as possible. Seeing here that some of us come up with our polls using lots of criteria and looking deep into everything that is happening makes dlip feel very proud to be a part of this poll with everyone here. dlip honestly uses this poll as THE East region poll even ingnoring d3's rankings some times because he feels here we have so many knowledgeable passionate people working really hard to produce the most accurate reflection fo our region. ****, great discussion here

It lets you know that people are interested and take it relatively seriously.

I think that is a good thing.....all pollsters should continue to do what they think is right in their own minds.  I just don't understand why some get so defensive when someone asks for reasoning.

I dont understand how Fisher can consider itself a 'National Power' when it only gets 2 points in the ERFP?

*****This is only a test*****

My real griping will begin after we beat Ithaca this week. 

[union89]

I won't hide behind my poll..hehe...

1.  Alfred
2.  Albright
3.  Delaware Valley
4.  Kean
5.  Cortland
6.  Rowan
7.  Ithaca
8.  Wilkes
9.  Hartwick
10.  Springfield

I actually have put a lot of thought into it each week and will be happy to defend any rankings.

OK, I'll wade into this pizz warm water....looks solid all around except....

You already know where I'm going.....why 4 E8's and zero LL's?  I can understand your poll through the Top 8....I would have Union at 8 or 9, but can understand even Hartwick at 9, BUT how can you put Springfield at 10 over Union or even RPI for that matter? 

You understand Hartwick? Really? They don't have a "good" win, and they lost to a team the Union beat. I guess a "good loss" beats a very good win? Union's loss to the Mules is why they are in the 8,9,10, HM range, but no way should they be behind Hartwick.

Didn't necessarily say I agreed, but to quote Chris Rock, "I understand".

[union89]

Win's over Fitchburg St., Kings & Utica coupled with a MonkeyStomping at the hands of Alfred do not warrant Top 10 consideration IMO.

Plus Muhlenburg 'aint that bad....

Opened the season with 14-12 loss to Wilkes.
Gettysburg is a bad loss.
Hopkins is 4-1 with their only loss in the season opener to Delaware Valley.

Wilkes, Union & Hopkins in 3 of first 4 games.....quite a gauntlet.

[lewdogg11]

Win's over Fitchburg St., Kings & Utica coupled with a MonkeyStomping at the hands of Alfred do not warrant Top 10 consideration IMO.

Plus Muhlenburg 'aint that bad....

Opened the season with 14-12 loss to Wilkes.
Gettysburg is a bad loss.
Hopkins is 4-1 with their only loss in the season opener to Delaware Valley.

Wilkes, Union & Hopkins in 3 of first 4 games.....quite a gauntlet.

Ill just put Plymouth St in next week.

[union89]

No reason to get cranky.......I complimented your Top 9......just questioned that bizarro #10.

[theoriginalupstate]

Win's over Fitchburg St., Kings & Utica coupled with a MonkeyStomping at the hands of Alfred do not warrant Top 10 consideration IMO.

Plus Muhlenburg 'aint that bad....

Opened the season with 14-12 loss to Wilkes.
Gettysburg is a bad loss.
Hopkins is 4-1 with their only loss in the season opener to Delaware Valley.

Wilkes, Union & Hopkins in 3 of first 4 games.....quite a gauntlet.

Either does losing to UR but I still have RPI in my top 10 (at number 10)...

[redswarm81]

Kean didn't really beat Cortland, in other words.  Did Kean really beat Trenton St. TCNJ?

Kean did beat Cortland, but they beat Cortland without their best ****in player. That means something and should be accounted for regarding a teams actual strength vs their strength without their star player. Maybe dlip took it into consideration too much, point taken, but it deserved consideration none the less. And if one feels a team is at the same strength when they are playing without their star player than they are not dipping both ****in oars into the water when trying to paddle up stream. Hence if one were to say Rochester is clearly a better overall team than RPI without Herman, dlip would agree because that was taken care of on the field. Yet, if you came to dlip and said Rochester would have still won even if RPI had Herman, one could disagree, because they haven't beaten RPI when Herman (a 3 time LL rookie of the week) was playing. So dlip feels injuries and missing players must be accounted for, especially when those players are returning to the line-up that same year.

Not sure I agree with the arguement that head to head match ups only matters if you beat someone with all of the players.  A win is a win...everyone goes through injuries.  As bad as Wick's defense was last year in the Brockport game...Wick doesn't get a pass simply because Tomaino and the starting ILB and FS were all out by the second series of the first quarter.

If I came on here and argued that it didn't really matter because we put up 68 points...and that the 70 points shouldn't count as we had "guys out", I would get destroyed...and rightfully so.  I believe we would have won the game going away if everyone was healthy and playing all 4 quarters...and that we would have given up far fewer points as we obviously weren't that deep.  But the problem is they weren't in the game...and we gave up 70. Injuries are part of the game...and head to head match ups should count above and beyond everything else.

Again, it is not that the W does not ****in count, dlip does not recall KS, dlip, or anyone else saying that. When you are ranking teams you are reviewing SOS, W's and L's,  as well as any other factors that have to do with a teams performance, and/or lack there of. All dlip is saying (maybe KS too, dlip does not want to speak for him) is that if a key player, or players miss a game you MUST take that into account not only regarding that teams performance but also in weighing the W by the oppoisng team. dlip is baffled that this seems to be a hard ****ing concept for others to understand. If you simply rank teams by W's and L's and nothing else you are missing the bus. **** an NEFC team may be in the top five then of national polls.

this is good debate stuff.... just to play devils advocate here...what about settling it on the field rather than the polls? bottom line is kean beat them on the field and injuries are part of the game. what if cortlands qb rather than getting hurt had a bad game and throws 5 ints? what if weather was a factor? what would u do then? there are lots of ifs/ands/buts...to pbr if cortland is a good team they overcome injuries. i.e. see florida w/ tebow out they won last weekend and may have to play lsu this weekend w/o him.  
pbr is just sayin.... guess the question is yes cortland lost a good player but they still settled it on the field so how much weight does a pollster give to not having a good player? imho chances are you would see a lot of different weightings by different pollsters and what your seeing right here now

How's this for poll voter psychology:

A poll should "accurately" predict the outcome of a hypothetical game between differently ranked opponents,

• despite the outcome of an actual contest between those same differently ranked opponents;
• while taking into consideration injuries to some players on some teams;
• while ignoring injuries to some players on some other teams.

[pumkinattack]

Personally for me no.  I just can't justify the Sasquatch loss.  Kinda like i can't justify RPI losing to Rochester.  Both teams would need to win out in my eyes.

Fair enough.  Funny thing is that the CMU win is one of the stronger ones in the east this year thus far and it gets devalued by Bart's first loss ever in the LL to someone other than RPI or Union.  That consistency that's been a hallmark is gone just like that.  It, along with the playoff streak, were areas that got no coverage (note this Dew), but were pretty impressive.  

[redswarm81]

Win's over Fitchburg St., Kings & Utica coupled with a MonkeyStomping at the hands of Alfred do not warrant Top 10 consideration IMO.

Plus Muhlenburg 'aint that bad....

Opened the season with 14-12 loss to Wilkes.
Gettysburg is a bad loss.
Hopkins is 4-1 with their only loss in the season opener to Delaware Valley.

Wilkes, Union & Hopkins in 3 of first 4 games.....quite a gauntlet.

Either does losing to UR but I still have RPI in my top 10 (at number 10)...

Which is a worse loss:

• 3-1 RPI losing at home to (now) 1-3 UofR by a score of 16-10;
• 3-1 Union losing at (now) 1-3 Muhlenberg by a score of 17-7; 
• 3-1 Ithaca losing at (now) 3-1 Union by a score of 24-21: or
• 1-3 Muhlenberg losing at (now) 1-4 Gettysburg by a score of 20-3?

[theoriginalupstate]

Win's over Fitchburg St., Kings & Utica coupled with a MonkeyStomping at the hands of Alfred do not warrant Top 10 consideration IMO.

Plus Muhlenburg 'aint that bad....

Opened the season with 14-12 loss to Wilkes.
Gettysburg is a bad loss.
Hopkins is 4-1 with their only loss in the season opener to Delaware Valley.

Wilkes, Union & Hopkins in 3 of first 4 games.....quite a gauntlet.

Either does losing to UR but I still have RPI in my top 10 (at number 10)...

Which is a worse loss:

• 3-1 RPI losing at home to (now) 1-3 UofR by a score of 16-10;
• 3-1 Union losing at (now) 1-3 Muhlenberg by a score of 17-7; 
• 3-1 Ithaca losing at (now) 3-1 Union by a score of 24-21: or
• 1-3 Muhlenberg losing at (now) 1-4 Gettysburg by a score of 20-3?

Seeing that the Mules just lost to 1-4 Gettysburgh I'd say Union losing to Muhlenberg....

[lewdogg11]

Win's over Fitchburg St., Kings & Utica coupled with a MonkeyStomping at the hands of Alfred do not warrant Top 10 consideration IMO.

Plus Muhlenburg 'aint that bad....

Opened the season with 14-12 loss to Wilkes.
Gettysburg is a bad loss.
Hopkins is 4-1 with their only loss in the season opener to Delaware Valley.

Wilkes, Union & Hopkins in 3 of first 4 games.....quite a gauntlet.

Either does losing to UR but I still have RPI in my top 10 (at number 10)...

Which is a worse loss:

• 3-1 RPI losing at home to (now) 1-3 UofR by a score of 16-10;
• 3-1 Union losing at (now) 1-3 Muhlenberg by a score of 17-7;  
• 3-1 Ithaca losing at (now) 3-1 Union by a score of 24-21: or
• 1-3 Muhlenberg losing at (now) 1-4 Gettysburg by a score of 20-3?

I dont think this is much of a question.  I would say 'What are the losses ranked?'(1 being the worst)


1.  3-1 RPI losing at home to (now) 1-3 UofR by a score of 16-10; [/li][/list]







2.  3-1 Union losing at (now) 1-3 Muhlenberg by a score of 17-7
3.  1-3 Muhlenberg losing at (now) 1-4 Gettysburg by a score of 20-3
4.  3-1 Ithaca losing at (now) 3-1 Union by a score of 24-21

[union89]

Win's over Fitchburg St., Kings & Utica coupled with a MonkeyStomping at the hands of Alfred do not warrant Top 10 consideration IMO.

Plus Muhlenburg 'aint that bad....

Opened the season with 14-12 loss to Wilkes.
Gettysburg is a bad loss.
Hopkins is 4-1 with their only loss in the season opener to Delaware Valley.

Wilkes, Union & Hopkins in 3 of first 4 games.....quite a gauntlet.

Either does losing to UR but I still have RPI in my top 10 (at number 10)...

Which is a worse loss:

• 3-1 RPI losing at home to (now) 1-3 UofR by a score of 16-10;
• 3-1 Union losing at (now) 1-3 Muhlenberg by a score of 17-7;  
• 3-1 Ithaca losing at (now) 3-1 Union by a score of 24-21: or
• 1-3 Muhlenberg losing at (now) 1-4 Gettysburg by a score of 20-3?

I dont think this is much of a question.  I would say 'What are the losses ranked?'(1 being the worst)


1.  3-1 RPI losing at home to (now) 1-3 UofR by a score of 16-10; [/li][/list]







2.  3-1 Union losing at (now) 1-3 Muhlenberg by a score of 17-7
3.  1-3 Muhlenberg losing at (now) 1-4 Gettysburg by a score of 20-3
4.  3-1 Ithaca losing at (now) 3-1 Union by a score of 24-21

I kind of agree with LD.  Looking at worst loss is just a part of the overall picture.