East Region Fan Poll

[union89]

PG,
Good looking out helping that woman on the ECFC board.  I'm just surprised you didn't set up a time to personally explain all the nuances of the Pool B & C's to her.....you get a gold star for your forehead.

[dewcrew88]

@U89 regarding seeds: the team being imported has to be 500 miles, that's the distance allowed by the NCAA. Not sure exactly how they do it, but I guess that's why MUC can slide so easily into the east.

[union89]

@U89 regarding seeds: the team being imported has to be 500 miles, that's the distance allowed by the NCAA. Not sure exactly how they do it, but I guess that's why MUC can slide so easily into the east.

.....or Wesley for that matter.  I was more talking about importing any team if Alfred runs the table.

[Mr. Ypsi]

@U89 regarding seeds: the team being imported has to be 500 miles, that's the distance allowed by the NCAA. Not sure exactly how they do it, but I guess that's why MUC can slide so easily into the east.

It's not that they CAN'T be over 500 miles (otherwise the west coast and Texas teams would not be allowed in the tourney at all), but if more than 500 miles the NCAA has to pick up the tab for air fare.  Since they HATE to do that (hence, often some outrageous first-round matchups (as far as seeds are concerned) for Texas and SCIAC/NWC teams).

Saving on air fare is the reason why only MUC and Wesley get mentioned as possible 'imports'.

[Doid23]

Here's my problem with the whole importing Mt. Union thing. The numbers don't support that the East is so  lacking vs. the North. The real beneficiary of this model are the elite North (Midwest) teams, but I'm not sure why they deserve the pass.  This is going to seem strange, sometimes comparing blowout losses, but basically, the results over the last 4 years vs. the North and East are very similar for Mt. U's opponents:

2005  d. MSJ 49-6, Augustana 44-7, Capital 34-31, Rowan 19-7
2006  d. Hope 49-6, Wheaton 44-7, Capital 17-14, Fisher 26-14
2007  d. Ithaca 42-18,New Jersey 59-7, Fisher 52-10, Bethel 62-14
2008  d. RMacon 56-0, Hobart 42-7, Cortland 41-14, d. Wheaton 45-24

They blow out everyone in the first rounds, no matter where they're from. But, the scores show that over the years, the best North Rep excluding Mt. U (Capital, Capital, Bethel, Wheaton) had similar results vs Mt. U and the East (Rowan, Fisher, Fisher, Cortland. So, ex Mt. U, why exactly is the North considered superior to the East? Take away Mt. Union (the fact that they carry a 200 man roster would suggest to me that they're really not a true DIII team, but that's a discussion for another day), and I'd stack the East vs. the North any day.

[Pat Coleman]

So would John Carroll.

[pg04]

PG,
Good looking out helping that woman on the ECFC board.  I'm just surprised you didn't set up a time to personally explain all the nuances of the Pool B & C's to her.....you get a gold star for your forehead.

I'm not sure what the point of this statement was.  I gave her a link, but that was still more than anyone else did...

[Mr. Ypsi]

Here's my problem with the whole importing Mt. Union thing. The numbers don't support that the East is so  lacking vs. the North. The real beneficiary of this model are the elite North (Midwest) teams, but I'm not sure why they deserve the pass.  This is going to seem strange, sometimes comparing blowout losses, but basically, the results over the last 4 years vs. the North and East are very similar for Mt. U's opponents:

2005  d. MSJ 49-6, Augustana 44-7, Capital 34-31, Rowan 19-7
2006  d. Hope 49-6, Wheaton 44-7, Capital 17-14, Fisher 26-14
2007  d. Ithaca 42-18,New Jersey 59-7, Fisher 52-10, Bethel 62-14
2008  d. RMacon 56-0, Hobart 42-7, Cortland 41-14, d. Wheaton 45-24

They blow out everyone in the first rounds, no matter where they're from. But, the scores show that over the years, the best North Rep excluding Mt. U (Capital, Capital, Bethel, Wheaton) had similar results vs Mt. U and the East (Rowan, Fisher, Fisher, Cortland. So, ex Mt. U, why exactly is the North considered superior to the East? Take away Mt. Union (the fact that they carry a 200 man roster would suggest to me that they're really not a true DIII team, but that's a discussion for another day), and I'd stack the East vs. the North any day.

I salute your loyalty, but that puts you in a tiny minority.

Leaving aside MUC, would you want to put money on the East's best against Wheaton, Capital, Wabash, NCC, Case Western, Otterbein, etc.?

[boobyhasgameyo]

So would John Carroll.

Pat is going to continue to reference that John Carroll run 40 years from now God bless him...

[dlippiel]

Here's my problem with the whole importing Mt. Union thing. The numbers don't support that the East is so  lacking vs. the North. The real beneficiary of this model are the elite North (Midwest) teams, but I'm not sure why they deserve the pass.  This is going to seem strange, sometimes comparing blowout losses, but basically, the results over the last 4 years vs. the North and East are very similar for Mt. U's opponents:

2005  d. MSJ 49-6, Augustana 44-7, Capital 34-31, Rowan 19-7
2006  d. Hope 49-6, Wheaton 44-7, Capital 17-14, Fisher 26-14
2007  d. Ithaca 42-18,New Jersey 59-7, Fisher 52-10, Bethel 62-14
2008  d. RMacon 56-0, Hobart 42-7, Cortland 41-14, d. Wheaton 45-24

They blow out everyone in the first rounds, no matter where they're from. But, the scores show that over the years, the best North Rep excluding Mt. U (Capital, Capital, Bethel, Wheaton) had similar results vs Mt. U and the East (Rowan, Fisher, Fisher, Cortland. So, ex Mt. U, why exactly is the North considered superior to the East? Take away Mt. Union (the fact that they carry a 200 man roster would suggest to me that they're really not a true DIII team, but that's a discussion for another day), and I'd stack the East vs. the North any day.

dlip likes this  !

[dlippiel]

Here's my problem with the whole importing Mt. Union thing. The numbers don't support that the East is so  lacking vs. the North. The real beneficiary of this model are the elite North (Midwest) teams, but I'm not sure why they deserve the pass.  This is going to seem strange, sometimes comparing blowout losses, but basically, the results over the last 4 years vs. the North and East are very similar for Mt. U's opponents:

2005  d. MSJ 49-6, Augustana 44-7, Capital 34-31, Rowan 19-7
2006  d. Hope 49-6, Wheaton 44-7, Capital 17-14, Fisher 26-14
2007  d. Ithaca 42-18,New Jersey 59-7, Fisher 52-10, Bethel 62-14
2008  d. RMacon 56-0, Hobart 42-7, Cortland 41-14, d. Wheaton 45-24

They blow out everyone in the first rounds, no matter where they're from. But, the scores show that over the years, the best North Rep excluding Mt. U (Capital, Capital, Bethel, Wheaton) had similar results vs Mt. U and the East (Rowan, Fisher, Fisher, Cortland. So, ex Mt. U, why exactly is the North considered superior to the East? Take away Mt. Union (the fact that they carry a 200 man roster would suggest to me that they're really not a true DIII team, but that's a discussion for another day), and I'd stack the East vs. the North any day.

I salute your loyalty, but that puts you in a tiny minority.

Leaving aside MUC, would you want to put money on the East's best against Wheaton, Capital, Wabash, NCC, Case Western, Otterbein, etc.?

Might be more competitive than one thinks. dlip is always the first to hammer the east in comparison but looking at the picture now, he thinks there is more to it. Obvioulsy you have 4-5 teams that are almost untouchable, but after that the drop off is somewhat significant and may favor the East being much more competitive across the board than dlip has given them credit for. This year has seemed to cross dlip up a bit as a result of 1.) No clear cut East team taking the reigns and running away 2.) The East just beating the **** out of itself and parity seeming to grow across the region and conferences. Who knows but these are some good thoughts.

[AUKaz00]

Here's my problem with the whole importing Mt. Union thing. The numbers don't support that the East is so  lacking vs. the North. The real beneficiary of this model are the elite North (Midwest) teams, but I'm not sure why they deserve the pass.  This is going to seem strange, sometimes comparing blowout losses, but basically, the results over the last 4 years vs. the North and East are very similar for Mt. U's opponents:

2005  d. MSJ 49-6, Augustana 44-7, Capital 34-31, Rowan 19-7
2006  d. Hope 49-6, Wheaton 44-7, Capital 17-14, Fisher 26-14
2007  d. Ithaca 42-18,New Jersey 59-7, Fisher 52-10, Bethel 62-14
2008  d. RMacon 56-0, Hobart 42-7, Cortland 41-14, d. Wheaton 45-24

They blow out everyone in the first rounds, no matter where they're from. But, the scores show that over the years, the best North Rep excluding Mt. U (Capital, Capital, Bethel, Wheaton) had similar results vs Mt. U and the East (Rowan, Fisher, Fisher, Cortland. So, ex Mt. U, why exactly is the North considered superior to the East? Take away Mt. Union (the fact that they carry a 200 man roster would suggest to me that they're really not a true DIII team, but that's a discussion for another day), and I'd stack the East vs. the North any day.

I salute your loyalty, but that puts you in a tiny minority.

Leaving aside MUC, would you want to put money on the East's best against Wheaton, Capital, Wabash, NCC, Case Western, Otterbein, etc.?

Might be more competitive than one thinks. dlip is always the first to hammer the east in comparison but looking at the picture now, he thinks there is more to it. Obvioulsy you have 4-5 teams that are almost untouchable, but after that the drop off is somewhat significant and may favor the East being much more competitive across the board than dlip has given them credit for. This year has seemed to cross dlip up a bit as a result of 1.) No clear cut East team taking the reigns and running away 2.) The East just beating the **** out of itself and parity seeming to grow across the region and conferences. Who knows but these are some good thoughts.

While doing the dishes last night (Kaz00 has found that he can watch all the sports he wants if he's working while watching), I came up with the solution to the regional problem we've been dancing around on this thread for awhile.  I have to give Mr. Ypsi credit here because he gave us the perspective of how it felt when UWW was moved into the North.  Basically, MUC and UWW are so far removed from the rest of the field that they shouldn't be constricted to any region (or at least that's what the NCAA has been telling us) and thus I propose that they be removed from their regions and become national teams.  In subsequent years, the Stagg Bowl participants from the previous year will obtain the status as the two national teams and being a national team be granted a bye to the final four.  Then, the 32 team tournament will be seeded and played with 8 teams from each region fighting for regional supremacy.  The regional champs will fight off for the right to take on the two national teams at a rotating neutral location with the winners of those games facing off in the Stagg Bowl.

[Doid23]

I salute your loyalty, but that puts you in a tiny minority.

Leaving aside MUC, would you want to put money on the East's best against Wheaton, Capital, Wabash, NCC, Case Western, Otterbein, etc.?

Would I put my money on it? No. But then, I wouldn't put my money on the North either.

This isn't a loyalty issue. I've been on the same boat as everyone else, the East is inferior, etc. But then when I remove the Mt. U factor, and looked at the numbers, a different story emerges.

I guess I'll flip it on you...what leads you to the conclusion that Wheaton, Capital, Wabash, NCC, Case Western, Otterbein, etc. are better than Ithaca, Rowan, Fisher, Union, RPI, Cortland, etc.? Certainly, their results against their only common opponent (Mt. U) say that their pretty equal. Equally bad, maybe,  but equal.

[pumkinattack]

How come Union and RPI gets mentioned but not Bart?  (just kidding....sort of)

I agree with the point though.  Even the John Carroll example, which can easily be considered an outlier (at least its seeding of #7 in the east, but that's on the NCAA and their cheapness) since their biggest win against Hobart was 27-7 (where Hobart was up 7-0, fumbled on the JCU 3 which was taken back 97 yards, boy that sounds familiar right now, and Bart lost their will against the 11th ranked team in the country - total yards were about the same and our future Galiardi finalist QB threw 2 picks vs. their, I believe Gagliardi finalist Arth who didn't), they beat 4 seeded Muhlenburg 21-10 and then won 16-10 in OT against Brockport (who knocked out #1 seeded Rowan by 3 the week before).  Basically JCU was about the same as the top 2-3 teams in the East that year then they got stuck by MUC.  So how is that different than having an MUC that's out of this world and everyone else? 

[union89]

PG,
Good looking out helping that woman on the ECFC board.  I'm just surprised you didn't set up a time to personally explain all the nuances of the Pool B & C's to her.....you get a gold star for your forehead.

I'm not sure what the point of this statement was.  I gave her a link, but that was still more than anyone else did...

Not even busting chops....I thought it was nice of you...hoenestly, good job....easy boy....